Marquis Grissom signs with the Cubs

[CuseCubFan69]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little about this possible signing. Until last year when Grissom was injured and only played in 44 games, he absolutely terrorized left-handed pitchers. He's coming in as a suitable platoon partner for Jacque Jones.

 

His OPS vs LHP:

 

2003-2005: .926

 

2002: .971

2003: 1.056

2004: .933

 

Because he missed out on Byrnes he'll grab Grissom for probably less than $1 Mil per year. That's not bad at all. Let's not just assume Hendry's an idiot and wants to start him over Matt Murton. The only obvious need for a platoon is in RF. It's not a sexy signing, but its a very smart one.

 

I see a Grissom/Mabry left and Jones in right.

[ThePenguin11]

No, but I don't see any situation where Grissom wins Murton's playing time.

 

If they bring Grissom in to platoon with Jones and they hit 2nd, you might get a .350 OBP out of the 2 hole. Jones actually had really decent numbers last year against righties, .268/.348/.466/.814, I almost think that might improve a bit if you have him focus solely on hitting right handed batters. Together they might put up something close to an .850 OPS, not terrific but not terrible

 

And Grissom hit .217 .245 .261 against LHP last year.

 

Dusty would find a way to use Grissom over Murton, and he would never be able to figure out a proper platoon between Jones and Grissom (not that one exists since they aren't good enough to be your RF).

 

A sample size of 137 at bats season is basically useless.

Edited December 30, 2005 by ThePenguin11

[goonys evil twin]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little about this possible signing. Until last year when Grissom was injured and only played in 44 games, he absolutely terrorized left-handed pitchers. He's coming in as a suitable platoon partner for Jacque Jones.

 

You simply cannot use the "until last year" phrase when talking about a 39 year old baseball player.

 

He's coming in as another veteran for Dusty to overuse. The likelihood of him using Jones/Grissom in a proper platoon is extremely low since Dusty has shown little ability to properly platoon players, wait through the slump of an inexperienced player, limit the playing time of unproductive veterans, and properly read splits.

[goonys evil twin]

No, but I don't see any situation where Grissom wins Murton's playing time.

 

If they bring Grissom in to platoon with Jones and they hit 2nd, you might get a .350 OBP out of the 2 hole. Jones actually had really decent numbers last year against righties, .268/.348/.466/.814, I almost think that might improve a bit if you have him focus solely on hitting right handed batters. Together they might put up something close to an .850 OPS, not terrific but not terrible

 

And Grissom hit .217 .245 .261 against LHP last year.

 

Dusty would find a way to use Grissom over Murton, and he would never be able to figure out a proper platoon between Jones and Grissom (not that one exists since they aren't good enough to be your RF).

 

A sample size of 137 at bats season for that matter is basically useless.

 

Marquis Grissom is basically useless. You'd have to care very little about the outcome if you're willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a 39 year older player with substandard career numbers coming off a disastrous age 38 season. I'm pretty comfortable looking at that limited sample size and theorizing that Grissom won't help the Cubs at all this year.

[Blueheart05]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little about this possible signing. Until last year when Grissom was injured and only played in 44 games, he absolutely terrorized left-handed pitchers. He's coming in as a suitable platoon partner for Jacque Jones.

 

You simply cannot use the "until last year" phrase when talking about a 39 year old baseball player.

 

He's coming in as another veteran for Dusty to overuse. The likelihood of him using Jones/Grissom in a proper platoon is extremely low since Dusty has shown little ability to properly platoon players, wait through the slump of an inexperienced player, limit the playing time of unproductive veterans, and properly read splits.

 

 

That's one view. I believe Grissom will split most of his time with Jones and not adversely affect Murton.

[ThePenguin11]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little about this possible signing. Until last year when Grissom was injured and only played in 44 games, he absolutely terrorized left-handed pitchers. He's coming in as a suitable platoon partner for Jacque Jones.

 

You simply cannot use the "until last year" phrase when talking about a 39 year old baseball player.

 

He's coming in as another veteran for Dusty to overuse. The likelihood of him using Jones/Grissom in a proper platoon is extremely low since Dusty has shown little ability to properly platoon players, wait through the slump of an inexperienced player, limit the playing time of unproductive veterans, and properly read splits.

 

You absolutely can when the sample size was nearly 1/4 of a normal major league season.

[goonys evil twin]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little about this possible signing. Until last year when Grissom was injured and only played in 44 games, he absolutely terrorized left-handed pitchers. He's coming in as a suitable platoon partner for Jacque Jones.

 

You simply cannot use the "until last year" phrase when talking about a 39 year old baseball player.

 

He's coming in as another veteran for Dusty to overuse. The likelihood of him using Jones/Grissom in a proper platoon is extremely low since Dusty has shown little ability to properly platoon players, wait through the slump of an inexperienced player, limit the playing time of unproductive veterans, and properly read splits.

 

You absolutely can when the sample size was nearly 1/4 of a normal major league season.

 

Perhaps it was so small because he's so old and so bad that like his game, his body was falling apart and even the Giants couldn't justify using him more.

 

If you're talking about a 32 or 33 year old, you're making some sense (although trusting Dusty to do it right is a stretch), but when you're talking about a 39 year old, and you're just assuming the previous disaster year was a fluke and that he'll be just fine next season, well, you're glossing over the harsh realities and just trying to paint the prettiest picture you can.

[ThePenguin11]

No, but I don't see any situation where Grissom wins Murton's playing time.

 

If they bring Grissom in to platoon with Jones and they hit 2nd, you might get a .350 OBP out of the 2 hole. Jones actually had really decent numbers last year against righties, .268/.348/.466/.814, I almost think that might improve a bit if you have him focus solely on hitting right handed batters. Together they might put up something close to an .850 OPS, not terrific but not terrible

 

And Grissom hit .217 .245 .261 against LHP last year.

 

Dusty would find a way to use Grissom over Murton, and he would never be able to figure out a proper platoon between Jones and Grissom (not that one exists since they aren't good enough to be your RF).

 

A sample size of 137 at bats season for that matter is basically useless.

 

Marquis Grissom is basically useless. You'd have to care very little about the outcome if you're willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a 39 year older player with substandard career numbers coming off a disastrous age 38 season. I'm pretty comfortable looking at that limited sample size and theorizing that Grissom won't help the Cubs at all this year.

 

Fair enough, you might be right. But the point is that you can't make any real conclusions based on that small of a sample size. What you can do is use the three year split from 2003-2005 (which includes his poor performance from last year) and factor a 5-10% decline in order to try and estimate what to expect for 2006. That would still place him well over .800 vs. LHP.

[ThePenguin11]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little about this possible signing. Until last year when Grissom was injured and only played in 44 games, he absolutely terrorized left-handed pitchers. He's coming in as a suitable platoon partner for Jacque Jones.

 

You simply cannot use the "until last year" phrase when talking about a 39 year old baseball player.

 

He's coming in as another veteran for Dusty to overuse. The likelihood of him using Jones/Grissom in a proper platoon is extremely low since Dusty has shown little ability to properly platoon players, wait through the slump of an inexperienced player, limit the playing time of unproductive veterans, and properly read splits.

 

You absolutely can when the sample size was nearly 1/4 of a normal major league season.

 

Perhaps it was so small because he's so old and so bad that like his game, his body was falling apart and even the Giants couldn't justify using him more.

 

If you're talking about a 32 or 33 year old, you're making some sense (although trusting Dusty to do it right is a stretch), but when you're talking about a 39 year old, and you're just assuming the previous disaster year was a fluke and that he'll be just fine next season, well, you're glossing over the harsh realities and just trying to paint the prettiest picture you can.

 

EDIT: You don't have to sugarcoat your true feelings.

[goonys evil twin]

Perhaps it was so small because he's so old and so bad that like his game, his body was falling apart and even the Giants couldn't justify using him more.

 

If you're talking about a 32 or 33 year old, you're making some sense (although trusting Dusty to do it right is a stretch), but when you're talking about a 39 year old, and you're just assuming the previous disaster year was a fluke and that he'll be just fine next season, well, you're glossing over the harsh realities and just trying to paint the prettiest picture you can.

 

I wonder if there is a font for pompous...

 

So I'm pompous for pointing out that 39 year olds don't just bounce back from off years? If you're looking at a guy like Grissom and seriously considering him a decent option on this team, you can only do that by highlighting the positives and completely ignoring the negatives.

[Wheelimus]

If we're trying to paint the prettiest picture possible, you must be trying to paint the ugliest :lol:

 

Mabry and Grissom will be bench players, I'd set the odds of that at about 92%. Grissom will spell Jones and Pierre, Mabry will spell Murton. Until I see something to make me think otherwise, I'll continue to believe that and hope for the best.

 

The real worry here is Neifi starting over Cedeno. And the fact that we're going to sign another outfielder meaning that Walker is gone (maybe for another pitcher) soon and Hairston will be our 2nd basemen...

[BigbadB]

Grissom ranks right at the top in 1 offensive category. He ranks 2nd in most painful batting stance to watch, right behind Craig Counsell.

 

Some of you have a lot more faith in Dusty than I do if you believe Dusty will sit Jacque Jones and his 5m contract in favor of Marquis Grissom when a lefty is on the mound, meanwhile letting league minimum Matt Murton play everyday.

 

I don't see it.

 

Oh, and just to touch base on the thought process of batting Jacque Jones 2nd in the order. Here are his splits over the last 3 years as a #2 hitter:

 

Jacque Jones as a #2 hitter over the last 3 years:

 

.225/.299/.649 in 160 at bats.

 

:cheers:

[CubfaninCA]

No way Hendry is THAT dumb. Murton will outproduce Grissom, and Mabry is already a good enough 4th OF, and Hairston is decent enough at that role as well.

 

Neither Hairston or Mabry is close to being a "good enough" 4th OF.

 

Who's your ideal 4th OF? Murton?

 

This team is so far beyond what could be considered ideal, that I don't know who my ideal 4th OF is. The best thing would be to find a big corner OF bat, and have Jones as the 4th guy. But since that isn't going to happen, I'd rather find a good OF bat and have Murton platoon with both corner OFers and get 300-450 AB. They went into the offseason in desperate need of an impact bat, and they still need one.

 

Murton's my preference as well. I have a feeling Hendry's looking to upgrade in LF and hoping that Floyd becomes available. I'm still of the opinion that Manny's holding up some secondary deals.

[ThePenguin11]

Perhaps it was so small because he's so old and so bad that like his game, his body was falling apart and even the Giants couldn't justify using him more.

 

If you're talking about a 32 or 33 year old, you're making some sense (although trusting Dusty to do it right is a stretch), but when you're talking about a 39 year old, and you're just assuming the previous disaster year was a fluke and that he'll be just fine next season, well, you're glossing over the harsh realities and just trying to paint the prettiest picture you can.

 

I wonder if there is a font for pompous...

 

So I'm pompous for pointing out that 39 year olds don't just bounce back from off years? If you're looking at a guy like Grissom and seriously considering him a decent option on this team, you can only do that by highlighting the positives and completely ignoring the negatives.

 

Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounded a lot like you were trying to demean me by saying I don't make any sense or that I'm blindly try to paint whatever pretty picture I can for the Cubs. However, I withdrew my comment due to the fact that the tone of one's voice cannot be conveyed it the printed word, giving you the benefit of the doubt. I based my original comments due to your seemingly unending amount of pessimism and negativity as well as what often comes off as a condescending tone. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

[Blueheart05]

Grissom ranks right at the top in 1 offensive category. He ranks 2nd in most painful batting stance to watch, right behind Craig Counsell.

 

Some of you have a lot more faith in Dusty than I do if you believe Dusty will sit Jacque Jones and his 5m contract in favor of Marquis Grissom when a lefty is on the mound, meanwhile letting league minimum Matt Murton play everyday.

 

I don't see it.

 

Oh, and just to touch base on the thought process of batting Jacque Jones 2nd in the order. Here are his splits over the last 3 years as a #2 hitter:

 

Jacque Jones as a #2 hitter over the last 3 years:

 

.225/.299/.649 in 160 at bats.

 

:cheers:

 

Let me clarify, my earlier statement about Jones batting second wasn't an endorsement just a hunch. I think he should bat no higher than 6th and that's only because he has power.

[CubfaninCA]

FWIW, Rotoworld seems to think that Grissom will share time with Jones (not Murton). That makes more sense...

 

Latest News

 

Dec. 30, 2005 - 1:17 pm et

 

According to his agent, outfielder Marquis Grissom will sign with the Cubs.

It's not so bad if it means that Jacque Jones will have a platoon partner in right field. Grissom didn't do anything last season, but he could probably still be effective enough against lefties to justify the roster spot.

Source: Denver Post

 

Well, I can see Dusty using Grissom against lefties he's had success with over his career, but I still think that Jones will get a good number of starts versus lefties however.

[JC]

Jacque Le Jones was not given a three year deal to sit on the bench. Murton's playing time would be in far more jeopardy if Grissom was signed rather than JJ.

 

Uhg. I hate that I just wrote that sentence and it pertains to the Cubs' 2006 outfield. What in the hell is going on with this club?!

[CubfaninCA]

No, but I don't see any situation where Grissom wins Murton's playing time.

 

If they bring Grissom in to platoon with Jones and they hit 2nd, you might get a .350 OBP out of the 2 hole. Jones actually had really decent numbers last year against righties, .268/.348/.466/.814, I almost think that might improve a bit if you have him focus solely on hitting right handed batters. Together they might put up something close to an .850 OPS, not terrific but not terrible

 

Good usage of stats.

[FergieJ31]

Latest News

 

Dec. 30, 2005 - 1:17 pm et

 

According to his agent, outfielder Marquis Grissom will sign with the Cubs...

 

Noooo no no no no ...

 

http://www.wordfiles.info/scream1-fr.gif

[CubfaninCA]

Jacque Le Jones was not given a three year deal to sit on the bench. Murton's playing time would be in far more jeopardy if Grissom was signed rather than JJ.

 

Uhg. I hate that I just wrote that sentence and it pertains to the Cubs' 2006 outfield. What in the hell is going on with this club?!

 

Um I think Juan Le Pierre is more in jeopardy than Murton.

[goonys evil twin]

Jacque Le Jones was not given a three year deal to sit on the bench. Murton's playing time would be in far more jeopardy if Grissom was signed rather than JJ.

 

Uhg. I hate that I just wrote that sentence and it pertains to the Cubs' 2006 outfield. What in the hell is going on with this club?!

 

Um I think Juan Le Pierre is more in jeopardy than Murton.

 

Jeopardy of what? Losing his job? He's been the centerpiece of their offsesaon. He's their ideal candidate for the much coveted speedy leadoff man.

 

 

Dusty is on record stating that he will play the guy with the bigger contract because that is why the guy got the contract. Couple that with his history of favoring older players, and all the positive things he has to say about older players, and that Murton was one of the few guys who Dusty openly criticized by name in the press, and it's pretty safe to assume that Murton will be the odd man out of the current OF.

[Blueheart05]

We're all speculating at this point (me included) but why does it seem to be OK to think the absolute worstcase senario will happen? Conversely, if someone tries to inject an opposing, dare I say, positive view it's shot down immediately (when the truth is none of us know for sure).

 

As a sidenote, it's sometimes difficult for me to post my true thoughts without feeling that someone will jump all over them. Aren't we all entitled to post here without feeling like we aren't in the know if the view isn't in the majority? I'm not so sure.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Blueheart05

[CubfaninCA]

If the Cubs were so intent on playing vets over Murton, they wouldn't have traded Lawton. If Murton's not in the lineup, it's because the Cubs trade for someone like Luis Gonzalez, Huff or Floyd.

 

Been lots of paranoia recently....

[BigbadB]

Murton's my preference as well. I have a feeling Hendry's looking to upgrade in LF and hoping that Floyd becomes available. I'm still of the opinion that Manny's holding up some secondary deals.

 

If Murton provided a whole season's worth of stats like he did last year, then we could feel much more comfortable with him as an everyday LFer.

 

Murton would be a great 4th outfielder this year, but not a great platoon partner, because there just aren't many lefty starters in the league. I wouldn't want to see him playing 1/4 of the year and pinch hitting occasionally. I'd like him to get lots of playing time.

 

I do agree with you that Hendry is still shopping for 1 more outfielder. It may end up being Floyd if the Manny thing goes down with the Mets. It may end up being Huff when teams forget Tampa is still trying to move him. It may end up being Gonzalez, but that one is definitely not one of my favorites. Green works for me, but he likely won't void his NTC.

 

It also seems to me that Hendry has some players he still wants to move (Patterson and Walker), and some guys that may need to be moved (Novoa, Ohman and/or Wellemeyer).

 

Jones may have ended up being more of an insurance move, though I wouldn't think you would normally see a team spend 3 years for insurance. Then again, they basically resigned Neifi and Rusch at 2 years each for insurance purposes.

 

If Hendry could land Tejada, the need for another outfielder wouldn't be as necessary, but I'd still believe he'd attempt to bring someone, anyone for a little more outfield protection. And preferably someone better than Marquis Grissom.

[CubfaninCA]

Jacque Le Jones was not given a three year deal to sit on the bench. Murton's playing time would be in far more jeopardy if Grissom was signed rather than JJ.

 

Uhg. I hate that I just wrote that sentence and it pertains to the Cubs' 2006 outfield. What in the hell is going on with this club?!

 

Um I think Juan Le Pierre is more in jeopardy than Murton.

 

Jeopardy of what? Losing his job? He's been the centerpiece of their offsesaon. He's their ideal candidate for the much coveted speedy leadoff man.

 

 

Dusty is on record stating that he will play the guy with the bigger contract because that is why the guy got the contract. Couple that with his history of favoring older players, and all the positive things he has to say about older players, and that Murton was one of the few guys who Dusty openly criticized by name in the press, and it's pretty safe to assume that Murton will be the odd man out of the current OF.

 

Playing time.

 

Gotta love the obsessing over Hendry gutting the team by dealing Prior & the speculation over Grissom in LF. Can't wait to see what's next.