Levine reports on Tejada for Prior rumor 12/22 - 26

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Rob Neyer in his chat today...

 

BT Chicago: Rob, What's your take on the Prior/Tejada rumors? Would you trade a starting pitcher of his potential whne he's only 24?

 

Rob Neyer: (11:11 AM ET ) Yes, I would. Prior's still got the potential, but he's not proved he can stay healthy. Meanwhile, Tejada's an outstanding player who's missed exactly zero games in the last five years.

 

 

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=10235

 

See this is my problem with the analysis of this supposed deal. People put whatever little label they want on a player and all of a sudden it starts to make sense. You have to look at the entire package, the big picture, the whole enchilada. When you do that, you can't justify the Cubs trading Prior for Tejada. The offense gets better, the pitching gets worse, the current team stays stagnant and the future is at risk.

 

I agree with your general sentiment, but I think it can be justified and I don't know that it necessarily makes the team worse next season.

 

I'm a little surprised to hear Neyer say that, but I'm kind of glad he did. If it were up to me I wouldn't make this deal. But some people are acting like this would be an enormous blunder and makes zero sense. It would be a risky deal, but there are positives and it could turn out to be a good deal in the long run.

 

I think the key word with Neyers comment is "proved". He's right, Prior hasn't proved he's durable. On the flip side you can't at this point say he's injury proned.

[David]

I don't care who hears it... Guys, I just want to cry.. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

 

This CANNOT happen...

[CubinNY]

But their future would be in grave doubt after this move.

 

Come on goony,

 

The future of the Cubs is in grave doubt right now. The Cubs are one of the few teams with the finiancial wearwithall to be able to land a top free agent pitcher even with Tejada. I'm not saying trading Prior for Tejada will make this team better or worse. And I'm not saying that I would make the propsed trade. But I see a future that isn't so bright anymore.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Anyone have any scouting info on Bedard? Does he scout out as a top of the rotation guy?

 

He was listed as a"B" prospect in John Sickel's 2004 handbook.

 

A fine prospect, Erik Bedard blew out his elbow in 2002 and had to have Tommy John surgery. He returned in the second half of the '03 season, and appears to have fully recovered from the procedure. At his best, Bedard works at 89-92MPH, with a really good curveball and change-up combination. His control is sharp, and he had no problems with command or control despite the layoff from pitching.

 

That info is nearly 2 years old now, however.

 

Bedard was less than impressive in the majors.

 

2005: 141.7 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and a .260 BAA.

 

His minor league numbers do look outstanding, but if I'm trading Prior along with Hill, I want more than Tejada and Bedard. In the very least, I want a prospect like Markaris thrown back into the deal.

[goonys evil twin]

But their future would be in grave doubt after this move.

 

Come on goony,

 

The future of the Cubs is in grave doubt right now. The Cubs are one of the few teams with the finiancial wearwithall to be able to land a top free agent pitcher even with Tejada. I'm not saying trading Prior for Tejada will make this team better or worse. And I'm not saying that I would make the propsed trade. But I see a future that isn't so bright anymore.

 

It would be in more grave doubt.

 

Seriously. The only reason this team has been any good at all the last couple years is because they lucked into Prior and didn't screw up the Zambrano situation (they wanted to trade him or move him to closer at one point). Prior and Zambrano give the Cubs an inherent advantage over other teams because nobody has two young pitchers of that caliber making such little money comparitavely speaking. They had that advantage, and a top payroll and couldn't do anything with it because they spend so much money on mediocrity and adhere to an old school approach to the game that abhors progress.

[goonys evil twin]

Anyone have any scouting info on Bedard? Does he scout out as a top of the rotation guy?

 

He was listed as a"B" prospect in John Sickel's 2004 handbook.

 

A fine prospect, Erik Bedard blew out his elbow in 2002 and had to have Tommy John surgery. He returned in the second half of the '03 season, and appears to have fully recovered from the procedure. At his best, Bedard works at 89-92MPH, with a really good curveball and change-up combination. His control is sharp, and he had no problems with command or control despite the layoff from pitching.

 

That info is nearly 2 years old now, however.

 

Bedard was less than impressive in the majors.

 

2005: 141.7 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and a .260 BAA.

 

His minor league numbers do look outstanding, but if I'm trading Prior along with Hill, I want more than Tejada and Bedard. In the very least, I want a prospect like Markaris thrown back into the deal.

 

Bedard is no more accomplished or impressive than Hill or Williams. He's no less of a "health risk" than Prior. He is not nearly enough to justify such a trade.

[CubinNY]

But their future would be in grave doubt after this move.

 

Come on goony,

 

The future of the Cubs is in grave doubt right now. The Cubs are one of the few teams with the finiancial wearwithall to be able to land a top free agent pitcher even with Tejada. I'm not saying trading Prior for Tejada will make this team better or worse. And I'm not saying that I would make the propsed trade. But I see a future that isn't so bright anymore.

 

It would be in more grave doubt.

 

Seriously. The only reason this team has been any good at all the last couple years is because they lucked into Prior and didn't screw up the Zambrano situation (they wanted to trade him or move him to closer at one point). Prior and Zambrano give the Cubs an inherent advantage over other teams because nobody has two young pitchers of that caliber making such little money comparitavely speaking. They had that advantage, and a top payroll and couldn't do anything with it because they spend so much money on mediocrity and adhere to an old school approach to the game that abhors progress.

 

Agreed.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Prior + Mazzone = :shock:

[YearofDaCubs]

I don't know if I can read about this anymore. I'm so disgusted in the Cubs I don't know what to do anymore.

[RynoRules]

Anyone have any scouting info on Bedard? Does he scout out as a top of the rotation guy?

 

He was listed as a"B" prospect in John Sickel's 2004 handbook.

 

A fine prospect, Erik Bedard blew out his elbow in 2002 and had to have Tommy John surgery. He returned in the second half of the '03 season, and appears to have fully recovered from the procedure. At his best, Bedard works at 89-92MPH, with a really good curveball and change-up combination. His control is sharp, and he had no problems with command or control despite the layoff from pitching.

 

That info is nearly 2 years old now, however.

 

Bedard was less than impressive in the majors.

 

2005: 141.7 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and a .260 BAA.

 

His minor league numbers do look outstanding, but if I'm trading Prior along with Hill, I want more than Tejada and Bedard. In the very least, I want a prospect like Markaris thrown back into the deal.

 

Agreed. That said, in response to Goony and Sully's sentiments expressed above, I don't think that Prior is to blame for the Cubs losing ways or that this trade would cost the Cubs any shot this season.

 

I think its a calculated gamble that is being considered by a desperate administration. Tejada will play every day and Prior, healthy or not, will not. There's upside and downside to both, and relying on our pitching has not gotten us very far over the last two years. I don't have a huge problem with trying something new. Its actually sort of what the Cards have done in the past - load up the lineup and rely on decent starters and a deep pen to keep you in games.

 

However, if the deal is Prior and Hill, I sincerely hope that Jim has something up his sleeve to fill Prior's spot in th rotation (and his name better not be Rusch).

[rawaction]

Anyone have any scouting info on Bedard? Does he scout out as a top of the rotation guy?

 

He was listed as a"B" prospect in John Sickel's 2004 handbook.

 

A fine prospect, Erik Bedard blew out his elbow in 2002 and had to have Tommy John surgery. He returned in the second half of the '03 season, and appears to have fully recovered from the procedure. At his best, Bedard works at 89-92MPH, with a really good curveball and change-up combination. His control is sharp, and he had no problems with command or control despite the layoff from pitching.

 

That info is nearly 2 years old now, however.

 

Bedard was less than impressive in the majors.

 

2005: 141.7 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and a .260 BAA.

 

His minor league numbers do look outstanding, but if I'm trading Prior along with Hill, I want more than Tejada and Bedard. In the very least, I want a prospect like Markaris thrown back into the deal.

 

Bedard is no more accomplished or impressive than Hill or Williams. He's no less of a "health risk" than Prior. He is not nearly enough to justify such a trade.

 

That's what I don't get. Hill is supposedly can't touch, but Hendry is gonna throw him in a deal just to get a very similar pitcher, but with more of an injury history. I'd probably do Bedard for Hill straight up, but it's not a no brainer. So, this deal is basically Prior for Tejada straight up.

 

Say all you want about the Cubs having good young pitching and a lackluster offense, the bottom line is you don't trade a 24 year old already near the top of the league in production for a 29 year old. I wouldn't trade Prior straight up for anyone over 26. Even Barry Bonds, if I was assured 2001-2004 type seasons from him.

[CuseCubFan69]

Anyone have any scouting info on Bedard? Does he scout out as a top of the rotation guy?

 

He was listed as a"B" prospect in John Sickel's 2004 handbook.

 

A fine prospect, Erik Bedard blew out his elbow in 2002 and had to have Tommy John surgery. He returned in the second half of the '03 season, and appears to have fully recovered from the procedure. At his best, Bedard works at 89-92MPH, with a really good curveball and change-up combination. His control is sharp, and he had no problems with command or control despite the layoff from pitching.

 

That info is nearly 2 years old now, however.

 

Bedard was less than impressive in the majors.

 

2005: 141.7 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and a .260 BAA.

 

His minor league numbers do look outstanding, but if I'm trading Prior along with Hill, I want more than Tejada and Bedard. In the very least, I want a prospect like Markaris thrown back into the deal.

 

Agreed. That said, in response to Goony and Sully's sentiments expressed above, I don't think that Prior is to blame for the Cubs losing ways or that this trade would cost the Cubs any shot this season.

 

I think its a calculated gamble that is being considered by a desperate administration. Tejada will play every day and Prior, healthy or not, will not. There's upside and downside to both, and relying on our pitching has not gotten us very far over the last two years. I don't have a huge problem with trying something new. Its actually sort of what the Cards have done in the past - load up the lineup and rely on decent starters and a deep pen to keep you in games.

 

However, if the deal is Prior and Hill, I sincerely hope that Jim has something up his sleeve to fill Prior's spot in th rotation (and his name better not be Rusch).

 

I hope Hendry does pick up a couple of more leftys because you never know when Lenny Harris is going to hit....I want the Cubs ready.

[hawkeyecub]

Anyone have any scouting info on Bedard? Does he scout out as a top of the rotation guy?

 

He was listed as a"B" prospect in John Sickel's 2004 handbook.

 

A fine prospect, Erik Bedard blew out his elbow in 2002 and had to have Tommy John surgery. He returned in the second half of the '03 season, and appears to have fully recovered from the procedure. At his best, Bedard works at 89-92MPH, with a really good curveball and change-up combination. His control is sharp, and he had no problems with command or control despite the layoff from pitching.

 

That info is nearly 2 years old now, however.

 

Bedard was less than impressive in the majors.

 

2005: 141.7 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and a .260 BAA.

 

His minor league numbers do look outstanding, but if I'm trading Prior along with Hill, I want more than Tejada and Bedard. In the very least, I want a prospect like Markaris thrown back into the deal.

 

Bedard is no more accomplished or impressive than Hill or Williams. He's no less of a "health risk" than Prior. He is not nearly enough to justify such a trade.

 

I would say he has a higher upside than Williams and possibly Hill, but yeah he hasn't done it in the majors and the health risks are still there.

[RynoRules]

Just asking: Could this mean that Guzman and Marshall are slated for Wrigley earlier than we thought?

[ThePenguin11]

On ESPN Rumors today...

 

Prior for Tejada?

Dec 23 - So far, no one has met the Orioles' asking price for shortstop Miguel Tejada, The Baltimore Sun reports. The most serious talks have been with the Cubs, who are offering a package that includes right-handed pitcher Mark Prior. Baltimore would prefer Carlos Zambrano because of Prior's recent history of elbow troubles.

The Cubs reportedly want left-hander Erik Bedard in the deal, but won't include top outfield prospect Felix Pie.

 

Cubs second baseman Todd Walker, center fielder Corey Patterson and pitcher Rich Hill have also been mentioned in a deal.

 

 

Looks like Prior is indeed on the table.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but does this sound like the Cubs would rather trade Prior than Pie? UUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHHH.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Of course, on the other side of the coin...the good posters at The Orioles Hangout wouldn't do the deal either. They think Tejada should be worth Prior and Hill without giving up Bedard.

[goonys evil twin]

I would say he has a higher upside than Williams and possibly Hill, but yeah he hasn't done it in the majors and the health risks are still there.

 

The problem with touting his upside is that he is the oldest pitcher in this entire discussion. If Bedard has upside from where he is right now, what about Prior.

[Fro]

I would say he has a higher upside than Williams and possibly Hill, but yeah he hasn't done it in the majors and the health risks are still there.

 

The problem with touting his upside is that he is the oldest pitcher in this entire discussion. If Bedard has upside from where he is right now, what about Prior.

 

Rich Hill's older than Prior and people on this board still think he'll be the next Barry Zito even though he'll be 26 by the time the season starts. :roll:

[CuseCubFan69]

Of course, on the other side of the coin...the good posters at The Orioles Hangout wouldn't do the deal either. They think Tejada should be worth Prior and Hill without giving up Bedard.

 

Ahh yes....then it is indeed the perfect comprimise.

[ThePenguin11]

Rob Neyer in his chat today...

 

BT Chicago: Rob, What's your take on the Prior/Tejada rumors? Would you trade a starting pitcher of his potential whne he's only 24?

 

Rob Neyer: (11:11 AM ET ) Yes, I would. Prior's still got the potential, but he's not proved he can stay healthy. Meanwhile, Tejada's an outstanding player who's missed exactly zero games in the last five years.

 

 

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=10235

 

See this is my problem with the analysis of this supposed deal. People put whatever little label they want on a player and all of a sudden it starts to make sense. You have to look at the entire package, the big picture, the whole enchilada. When you do that, you can't justify the Cubs trading Prior for Tejada. The offense gets better, the pitching gets worse, the current team stays stagnant and the future is at risk.

 

I could see the purposed deal making the Cubs better in 06 but they are pretty much selling out 07 and 08. Sounds like a GM in a contract year to me.

 

I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion? Tejada would still be under contract and no older than 32, Bedard would be under contract for the next 3-4 years anyway. How would it make them any worse after this year?

[Connor McConnor]

 

Seriously. The only reason this team has been any good at all the last couple years is .

 

Did I miss something? Have they been good the last couple of years? And Prior has been injured or very mediocre during this time period. What is is that we are so desperatly holding onto? a .500 team?

[goonys evil twin]

I would say he has a higher upside than Williams and possibly Hill, but yeah he hasn't done it in the majors and the health risks are still there.

 

The problem with touting his upside is that he is the oldest pitcher in this entire discussion. If Bedard has upside from where he is right now, what about Prior.

 

Rich Hill's older than Prior and people on this board still think he'll be the next Barry Zito even though he'll be 26 by the time the season starts. :roll:

 

People don't think he's the next Barry Zito, they compare his stuff to Barry Zito. There's a very big difference.

[Sarcastic]

On ESPN Rumors today...

 

Prior for Tejada?

Dec 23 - So far, no one has met the Orioles' asking price for shortstop Miguel Tejada, The Baltimore Sun reports. The most serious talks have been with the Cubs, who are offering a package that includes right-handed pitcher Mark Prior. Baltimore would prefer Carlos Zambrano because of Prior's recent history of elbow troubles.

The Cubs reportedly want left-hander Erik Bedard in the deal, but won't include top outfield prospect Felix Pie.

 

Cubs second baseman Todd Walker, center fielder Corey Patterson and pitcher Rich Hill have also been mentioned in a deal.

 

 

Looks like Prior is indeed on the table.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but does this sound like the Cubs would rather trade Prior than Pie? UUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHHH.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Cubs don't want to trade Prior AND Pie. That makes sense. If Hendry was willing to give them up for Tejada and Bedard, that would easily be the worst trade of the year for all teams.

 

My guess is that the Orioles aren't interested in getting just Pie as the main part of the deal.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Man, I wish someone would get rid of that smilie. ( :roll: ) It's so condescending and juvenile.

[rawaction]

I would say he has a higher upside than Williams and possibly Hill, but yeah he hasn't done it in the majors and the health risks are still there.

 

The problem with touting his upside is that he is the oldest pitcher in this entire discussion. If Bedard has upside from where he is right now, what about Prior.

 

Rich Hill's older than Prior and people on this board still think he'll be the next Barry Zito even though he'll be 26 by the time the season starts. :roll:

 

Bedard's older than Rich Hill and people in this organization think he'll be the next Barry Zito. Even though he'll be 27 by the time the season starts. :roll:

 

And btw, what does what people think about Hill have anything to do with this? Nobody is mad about Hill being included in a deal for Tejada.

Edited December 23, 2005 by rawaction