Cubs offer to FLA for Pierre is....

[hawkeyecub]

It's not about keeping the prospects, it's about getting appropriate value. If you're willing to give up those two, then do it for Wilkerson or Bradley, who are both superior to Pierre. That way we add a player that can get on base AND hit more than singles, so it improves the offense more.

 

Agreed, but I'm not sure that those two would land Wilkerson, would they? It should definitely be enough to land Bradley with the low price he seems to have, but I'm not so sure about Wilkerson. I guess I just have no clue what he would cost.

 

Also I'm afraid that we may be acquiring Bradley or Wilkerson to play RF, to compliment Pierre. But if Hendry realizes he can't land Pierre, then I think he would land one of the two for CF.

[badger1679666666]

 

For Christsakes that's not what hes saying. Really convenient to twist it like that. He's saying taking a chance on Pierre isn't bad because he's had at least 3 .370 OBP years. Some people and their ridiculous arguments. :roll:

 

If I checked last Agone has never given you a glimpse at a .370 OBP so that would be a foolhardy chance taken. Pierre has done it several times.

 

Now if you just don't like Pierrre, you just don't like him, but I can't stand seeing people twist others arguments that blatently.

 

he didn't have an argument, so it's impossible for me to twist it. his 'argument' was 'you gotta take chances'. my argument was that you didn't...there are other CF on the market and the cubs have other leadoff possibilities. he hasn't came back w/ anything for that other than 'pierre could be good again'.

 

i'm not comparing gonzalez to pierre, i was just making an argument like he did...w/ nothing backing it up other than 'you gotta take chances'.

 

Fair enough, but I interpreted his argument to mean that Pierre has put up .370 before, so he could do it again, especially with that long Wrigley grass. That is at least based in some thought process rather than lets just take a chance.

 

If he didn't mean that, then I appologize. I took it as prior history suggests type of argument.

[YearofDaCubs]

Fine, .350. But you get my point :D . He should rebound somewhat from 2005, so it depends on how high the rebound will be, and what effect the Wrigley grass will have on his game.

Curious to knwo what his Road/Home splits are.

 

Since coming to Florida his AVG has been 20 or more points worse away from Pro Player, and his OBP and SLG have followed.

 

Do you have his stats at Wrigley?

71 AB .282 .354

[abuck1220]

 

He's just trolling tonight. I commend his effort. :)

 

how are you not banned?

[USSoccer]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4245

 

Look at Bradley's career numbers. They don't do much to outweigh his personality risks. I'd deal from him only at minimal cost.

[Guest]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

[Mizzou]

 

He's just trolling tonight. I commend his effort. :)

 

What the hell is your problem?

 

Mods, I apologize in advance.

[badger1679666666]

Fine, .350. But you get my point :D . He should rebound somewhat from 2005, so it depends on how high the rebound will be, and what effect the Wrigley grass will have on his game.

Curious to knwo what his Road/Home splits are.

 

Since coming to Florida his AVG has been 20 or more points worse away from Pro Player, and his OBP and SLG have followed.

 

Do you have his stats at Wrigley?

71 AB .282 .354

 

Not bad, but a small sample size. Intuitively when he learns to play the Wrigley grass, those numbers would get better. I bet we'd see a .360 + OBP out of him next year, which would mean alot of opportuniiteis for Lee, and Aram to knock him in.

[Mark_R]

Hey a fight between abuck and CFICA not about Rich Hill!!!

 

I can honestly say that I'm shocked.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

It's not about keeping the prospects, it's about getting appropriate value. If you're willing to give up those two, then do it for Wilkerson or Bradley, who are both superior to Pierre. That way we add a player that can get on base AND hit more than singles, so it improves the offense more.

 

I think it's going to cost more to get Wilkerson or Bradley.

 

I can tell you right now that Pinto and Nolasco are much better than Saarloos and Ramos. If those two A's prospects are all it takes to get this deal done, then I fail to see how Nolasco & Pinto wouldn't trump it.

 

First off no one has been traded yet so we don't know what'll take to get these guys.

 

2nd I'm not a huge fan of Saarloos but he did post a 4.17 ERA last year. I believe the market would value him more then those 2 guys.

[CubfaninCA]

 

For Christsakes that's not what hes saying. Really convenient to twist it like that. He's saying taking a chance on Pierre isn't bad because he's had at least 3 .370 OBP years. Some people and their ridiculous arguments. :roll:

 

If I checked last Agone has never given you a glimpse at a .370 OBP so that would be a foolhardy chance taken. Pierre has done it several times.

 

Now if you just don't like Pierrre, you just don't like him, but I can't stand seeing people twist others arguments that blatently.

 

he didn't have an argument, so it's impossible for me to twist it. his 'argument' was 'you gotta take chances'. my argument was that you didn't...there are other CF on the market and the cubs have other leadoff possibilities. he hasn't came back w/ anything for that other than 'pierre could be good again'.

 

i'm not comparing gonzalez to pierre, i was just making an argument like he did...w/ nothing backing it up other than 'you gotta take chances'.

 

Fair enough, but I interpreted his argument to mean that Pierre has put up .370 before, so he could do it again, especially with that long Wrigley grass. That is at least based in some thought process rather than lets just take a chance.

 

If he didn't mean that, then I appologize. I took it as prior history suggests type of argument.

 

Your interpretation is correct. I wasn't trying to be slick. ;)

[USSoccer]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

 

I think Bradley should be below Pierre in terms of priorities/desirability. He should be the player we'd give spare parts to. Injury history, only a season and a half of good production, clubhouse issues + Baker the Enabler...I'd rather overpay to get Pierre than overpay for Bradley.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

 

YES

[stitchface]

awful

[badger1679666666]

I thought rotoworld said the Sarloos trade fell through, and the Cubs are the top suitors for Bradley?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Everyone here SO overrates our prospects. Understandable, but not being objective. You need to look at these guys from OTHER team's perspectives for once.

 

Nolasco--low Top 10 Cub prospect. Ceiling is as a projected #4 starter. Two plus pitches, but nothing dominating. Failed miserably his first time at AAA. Good control, but if he doesn't pinpoint his spots, he can get hit hard.

 

Pinto--borderline Top 10 Cub prospect. Electric stuff, lefty and young. But extremely wild, and has made little progress in harnessing his control. Hit very hard his first time in AAA, has not looked good in winter ball this year. Ceiling is as a projected #3 starter, but if the control doesn't improve soon, the bullpen may be his eventual home.

 

I have no problems giving up these two for a guy that can help your big league team right now, at a time of extreme duress, at a position they desperately need filled.

 

I don't think that is the issue. The issue is Juan Pierre and his value.

 

Who else are you going to get? Right now, there are a grand total of 4 outfielders on the Cubs 40-man roster, and one of those is about to jettisoned (Patterson). Who do you plan on playing in the OF in 2006, Jerry Hairston and John Mabry? Because that's what you have at this point.

 

It's one thing for people to say "oh, these prospects are worth more than Juan Pierre" etc...Well, I think the market speaks volumes. Is any other team clamoring for those prospects? Where's the demand if they're so great?

 

OK, the other argument. Use them to get Bradley, Wilkerson, insert name here. Um, if the other team doesn't WANT to trade them for the prospects you're offering, then that kind of proves the point, doesn't it?? If I offer Nolasco and Pinto to Washington for Wilkerson, and they come back and say "not interested", then guess what--you can't get more value for them than Juan Pierre.

[YearofDaCubs]

Fine, .350. But you get my point :D . He should rebound somewhat from 2005, so it depends on how high the rebound will be, and what effect the Wrigley grass will have on his game.

Curious to knwo what his Road/Home splits are.

 

Since coming to Florida his AVG has been 20 or more points worse away from Pro Player, and his OBP and SLG have followed.

 

Do you have his stats at Wrigley?

71 AB .282 .354

 

Not bad, but a small sample size. Intuitively when he learns to play the Wrigley grass, those numbers would get better. I bet we'd see a .360 + OBP out of him next year, which would mean alot of opportuniiteis for Lee, and Aram to knock him in.

Pierre would be a significant upgrade from what we had last year that's for sure.

[hawkeyecub]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4245

 

Look at Bradley's career numbers. They don't do much to outweigh his personality risks. I'd deal from him only at minimal cost.

 

Huh?

 

He posted a .922 OPS in 101 games in '03. In a full '04 season he put up a .267/.362/.424 line while playing in an extreme pitchers park. Last year he hit .290/.350/.484 in half a season, while again playing in a pitcher's park.

 

The durability is certainly a concern, but those numbers are fantastic for a centerfielder.

[Mark_R]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

Bob, wouldn't Michaels essentially be a one year rental? I'm going off the assumption that Pie would be ready in 2007. Michaels doesn't appear to project enough from a slugging standpoint to be a productive enough corner outfielder. Plus, he's not exactly a spring chicken, either, age wise.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think Bradley should be below Pierre in terms of priorities/desirability. He should be the player we'd give spare parts to. Injury history, only a season and a half of good production, clubhouse issues + Baker the Enabler...I'd rather overpay to get Pierre than overpay for Bradley.

 

It looks to me like Bradley's been good to outstanding producing at CF for the last 3 years.

[USSoccer]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4245

 

Look at Bradley's career numbers. They don't do much to outweigh his personality risks. I'd deal from him only at minimal cost.

 

Huh?

 

He posted a .922 OPS in 101 games in '03. In a full '04 season he put up a .267/.362/.424 line while playing in an extreme pitchers park. Last year he hit .290/.350/.484 in half a season, while again playing in a pitcher's park.

 

The durability is certainly a concern, but those numbers are fantastic for a centerfielder.

 

Durability is a huge concern, though. He's not going to get on base if he's hurt, which he is, a lot. Also, other than 2003, his best OBP in a full season is .362, which is about in line with Pierre's average.

 

I'm no longer sure why people consider him so much better than Pierre.

[UK1679666180]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

 

YES

 

Several of us have echoed that same thought. He's simply not the most productive player avail. and under the cloud of not knowing, assumptions have been made about it being similar costs to obatin him in regards to Bradley and Michaels.

Edited December 7, 2005 by UK

[USSoccer]

I think Bradley should be below Pierre in terms of priorities/desirability. He should be the player we'd give spare parts to. Injury history, only a season and a half of good production, clubhouse issues + Baker the Enabler...I'd rather overpay to get Pierre than overpay for Bradley.

 

It looks to me like Bradley's been good to outstanding producing at CF for the last 3 years.

 

He's only averaged 105 games in those 3 seasons.

[CubfaninCA]

 

He's just trolling tonight. I commend his effort. :)

 

how are you not banned?

 

Huh? I've seen the trolling accusation thrown out various times.

 

I commended you. Ligthen up and be positive.

[UK1679666180]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

Bob, wouldn't Michaels essentially be a one year rental? I'm going off the assumption that Pie would be ready in 2007. Michaels doesn't appear to project enough from a slugging standpoint to be a productive enough corner outfielder. Plus, he's not exactly a spring chicken, either, age wise.

 

He's arby eligible, Pie performs well and it gives the Cubs more options as far as trading him.

 

Michaels performs like I expect and the Cubs want to trade him to make room for Pie and they'd more in return than losing Pierre for a draft pick.

Edited December 7, 2005 by UK