Cubs offer to FLA for Pierre is....

[imb]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

TODD WALKER HAS MORE AT BATS AT THE LEADOFF SPOT IN HIS CAREER THAN ANY OTHER SPOT. HE IS NOT UNFAMILIAR WITH THAT ROLE.

 

Sorry for the caps, but this has popped up several times, and it's completely false.

 

but hes white and slow

[UK1679666180]

Please give me the stats Todd Walker had batting leadoff.

 

Compare those to Pierre.

 

 

Even if Walker is marginally better, I'd rather have Pierre batting first.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

 

What players are you speaking of, on the trade block, that'll bite at an offer of Nolasco/Pinto?

 

Give that offer to Philly and you'll likely have Jason Michaels. Yes, Michaels is better than Pierre.

[cubbyvirus00]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Let's say Pierre does well and Pie struggles at AAA, the Cubs get to enter a bidding war for Pierre the following year. Or they sign him to a long-term deal this Spring to prevent him from becoming a FA and then let the battle begin.

 

I can tell you right now, Pie is better defensively than Pierre at this moment.

 

I don't think we have a burning need of a defensive CFer. We need offense badly, and Pie hasen't even played at AAA yet, let alone perform at the MLB level.

 

Its a huge assumption that he'll be ready in 2007.

[USSoccer]

Just to reinforce something frmo the original Levine report, Hill was not thought to be part of this deal. It should just be the 2 pitchers.

[abuck1220]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

whose to say that pierre will be a cub in 07?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Getting Pierre keeps Neifi out of the leadoff spot. I won't be mad if his obp is .370 either.

 

And what if it's .326 like it was last year?

 

That's the chances you have to take. At least it's about .200 points better than Patterson right? ;)

 

why is that a chance you have to take? that makes no sense.

 

He's posted .378, .374, and .361 too.

 

and a .332. what's your point?

 

yeah, he could be a decent leadoff guy, but there are only a few one year rentals that i give up the top 3 minor league arms for -- and slappy mcgee ain't one of them.

 

and unless you're finding a way to get dunn, abreu or manny (w/o your top minor league arms, who you traded for your dreamboat, once in a lifetime, 'prototypical leadoff guy, mind you), this team isn't going anywhere next year anyway. so what's the point in giving up the farm for a guy that can help you win 81 games instead of 79?

 

 

Don't you think calling giving up Nolasco and Pinto "giving up the farm" is a wee bit dramatic? Neither is even a top 5 Cub prospect, maybe not even top 10.

 

I agree, I would be more upset about spending lots of money on a guy who isn't a difference maker.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Please give me the stats Todd Walker had batting leadoff.

 

Compare those to Pierre.

 

 

Even if Walker is marginally better, I'd rather have Pierre batting first.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

 

What players are you speaking of, on the trade block, that'll bite at an offer of Nolasco/Pinto?

 

Wilkerson and Bradley.

 

Walker career leadoff: .291/.349/.443/.792

Pierre career leadoff: 304/.354/.375/.729

 

Walker's better, it's pretty clear.

[UK1679666180]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Let's say Pierre does well and Pie struggles at AAA, the Cubs get to enter a bidding war for Pierre the following year. Or they sign him to a long-term deal this Spring to prevent him from becoming a FA and then let the battle begin.

 

I can tell you right now, Pie is better defensively than Pierre at this moment.

 

If Pie struggles at AAA, do you want him up at the ML level? He's pretty young still, so why rush him?

 

No, I don't want him rushed, but it doesn't be completed by only Pierre. It isn't a Pierre or bust scenario, there are better options.

 

My problem isn't with Pierre, he's an upgrade, he's just not the biggest upgrade out there.

[USSoccer]

CPatt-

 

Isn't a better slugging player best used lower in the order to drive in runs?

[CubfaninCA]

Getting Pierre keeps Neifi out of the leadoff spot. I won't be mad if his obp is .370 either.

 

And what if it's .326 like it was last year?

 

That's the chances you have to take. At least it's about .200 points better than Patterson right? ;)

 

why is that a chance you have to take? that makes no sense.

 

He's posted .378, .374, and .361 too.

 

and a .332. what's your point?

 

yeah, he could be a decent leadoff guy, but there are only a few one year rentals that i give up the top 3 minor league arms for -- and slappy mcgee ain't one of them.

 

and unless you're finding a way to get dunn, abreu or manny (w/o your top minor league arms, who you traded for your dreamboat, once in a lifetime, 'prototypical leadoff guy, mind you), this team isn't going anywhere next year anyway. so what's the point in giving up the farm for a guy that can help you win 81 games instead of 79?

 

Sorry you can't comprehend my point (taking chances). Pretty simple concept.

 

This team isn't going anywhere next year?? That's a great attitude.

[abuck1220]

Nightmarish.

 

If Pierre returns to a .360 OBP next year and steals at a 75 percent success rate -- is that acceptable?

 

I'm not saying he will ... just wondering what you'd think about those numbers.

 

say he does put up those #'s. it won't matter anyway because w/o good prospects to trade w/, the cubs are going to have jones, burnitz, wilson in rf, and the team will struggle to win 85 games. then pierre bolts for 7 year deal from the yankees and the cubs have nothing to show for trading 2-3 very good prospects. so no, that wouldn't be acceptable.

[USSoccer]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Let's say Pierre does well and Pie struggles at AAA, the Cubs get to enter a bidding war for Pierre the following year. Or they sign him to a long-term deal this Spring to prevent him from becoming a FA and then let the battle begin.

 

I can tell you right now, Pie is better defensively than Pierre at this moment.

 

If Pie struggles at AAA, do you want him up at the ML level? He's pretty young still, so why rush him?

 

No, I don't want him rushed, but it doesn't be completed by only Pierre. It isn't a Pierre or bust scenario, there are better options.

 

My problem isn't with Pierre, he's an upgrade, he's just not the biggest upgrade out there.

 

Are you still thinking of Michaels?

[nilodnayr]

There was a Bradley plus two top prospects for Zito, but I don't think it has much behind it.

 

But you never know with the LA system. I'd do Zito for Bradley, Billingsley and LaRoche so fast your head would spin. Heck, I'd do Zito for Bradley, Billingsley/LaRoche.

[cubbyvirus00]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

whose to say that pierre will be a cub in 07?

 

 

I don't quite get what your'e trying to say. It doesen't matter if hes signed through one year. If Pie stinks up the joint, and Pierre does a good job, give him an extention. If Pie doesen't blow the doors off of AAA, give him an additional season, extend Pierre, then maybe trade him at the end of two years.

 

 

Theres many options and creative ways to approach this. The FA market is taxxed for decent players, and now is the time to strike. I will offer a bet to anybody here, that Pierre plays better then he did in 05, and that he'll be a good player at Wrigley.

[UK1679666180]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Let's say Pierre does well and Pie struggles at AAA, the Cubs get to enter a bidding war for Pierre the following year. Or they sign him to a long-term deal this Spring to prevent him from becoming a FA and then let the battle begin.

 

I can tell you right now, Pie is better defensively than Pierre at this moment.

 

I don't think we have a burning need of a defensive CFer. We need offense badly, and Pie hasen't even played at AAA yet, let alone perform at the MLB level.

 

Its a huge assumption that he'll be ready in 2007.

 

Why does it have to be Pierre or bust? There are other avail. Cf'ers out there. That is my point. Hendry is settling for a CF'er who isn't the best available.

[YearofDaCubs]

Please give me the stats Todd Walker had batting leadoff.

 

Compare those to Pierre.

 

 

Even if Walker is marginally better, I'd rather have Pierre batting first.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

 

What players are you speaking of, on the trade block, that'll bite at an offer of Nolasco/Pinto?

Give that offer to Philly and you'll likely have Jason Michaels. Yes, Michaels is better than Pierre.

I've seen Michaels' numbers and they are impressive but he hasn't played full time as far as I can remember. Truthfully I don't know much about the guy.

Edited December 7, 2005 by YearofDaCubs

[Mizzou]

Getting Pierre keeps Neifi out of the leadoff spot. I won't be mad if his obp is .370 either.

 

And what if it's .326 like it was last year?

 

That's the chances you have to take. At least it's about .200 points better than Patterson right? ;)

 

why is that a chance you have to take? that makes no sense.

 

He's posted .378, .374, and .361 too.

 

and a .332. what's your point?

 

yeah, he could be a decent leadoff guy, but there are only a few one year rentals that i give up the top 3 minor league arms for -- and slappy mcgee ain't one of them.

 

and unless you're finding a way to get dunn, abreu or manny (w/o your top minor league arms, who you traded for your dreamboat, once in a lifetime, 'prototypical leadoff guy, mind you), this team isn't going anywhere next year anyway. so what's the point in giving up the farm for a guy that can help you win 81 games instead of 79?

 

Sorry you can't comprehend my point (taking chances). Pretty simple concept.

 

This team isn't going anywhere next year?? That's a great attitude.

 

Geez man.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

CPatt-

 

Isn't a better slugging player best used lower in the order to drive in runs?

 

Ideally we'd be able to put that in every spot, but considering that we aren't low on players that can slug(Lee, ARam, Barrett), I'll take more slugging from the guy on our team that will get the most PA's.

[imb]

CPatt-

 

Isn't a better slugging player best used lower in the order to drive in runs?

 

I think yes, if there is an abundance of slugging. In Walker's case, he doesnt really have enough to be a serious run producer, but he has enough to consistently get himself into scoring position.

 

Hes not going to steal bases, but he has doubles power, so he can get himself to second base that way.

[hawkeyecub]

Nightmarish.

 

If Pierre returns to a .360 OBP next year and steals at a 75 percent success rate -- is that acceptable?

 

I'm not saying he will ... just wondering what you'd think about those numbers.

 

say he does put up those #'s. it won't matter anyway because w/o good prospects to trade w/, the cubs are going to have jones, burnitz, wilson in rf, and the team will struggle to win 85 games. then pierre bolts for 7 year deal from the yankees and the cubs have nothing to show for trading 2-3 very good prospects. so no, that wouldn't be acceptable.

 

Wait a second, if we give up Nolasco and Pinto, we won't have "good prospects" to trade for Bradley, Wilkerson (not necessarily that I want those two in RF, but it's very possible) Kearns or another RF?

 

I guess I didn't realize Nolasco and Pinto were our only trading chips.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There was a Bradley plus two top prospects for Zito, but I don't think it has much behind it.

 

But you never know with the LA system. I'd do Zito for Bradley, Billingsley and LaRoche so fast your head would spin. Heck, I'd do Zito for Bradley, Billingsley/LaRoche.

 

IIRC, the rumor was Bradley, Joel Guzman, and Edwin Jackson. Could've been garbage from the getgo though.

[cubbyvirus00]

Please give me the stats Todd Walker had batting leadoff.

 

Compare those to Pierre.

 

 

Even if Walker is marginally better, I'd rather have Pierre batting first.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

 

What players are you speaking of, on the trade block, that'll bite at an offer of Nolasco/Pinto?

 

Wilkerson and Bradley.

 

Walker career leadoff: .291/.349/.443/.792

Pierre career leadoff: 304/.354/.375/.729

 

Walker's better, it's pretty clear.

 

 

How many AB's does Walker have in the leadoff spot, and were they all done in Boston? I only ask, because Pierre has been putting up those numbers for awhile now, not to mention he had an off year in 05.

[USSoccer]

Nightmarish.

 

If Pierre returns to a .360 OBP next year and steals at a 75 percent success rate -- is that acceptable?

 

I'm not saying he will ... just wondering what you'd think about those numbers.

 

say he does put up those #'s. it won't matter anyway because w/o good prospects to trade w/, the cubs are going to have jones, burnitz, wilson in rf, and the team will struggle to win 85 games. then pierre bolts for 7 year deal from the yankees and the cubs have nothing to show for trading 2-3 very good prospects. so no, that wouldn't be acceptable.

 

I don't know about that. Our power numbers were good enough last year, it was our RS that killed us. A properly constructed lineup with good OBP players at the top likely would mean we'd be in contention again.

[UK1679666180]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Let's say Pierre does well and Pie struggles at AAA, the Cubs get to enter a bidding war for Pierre the following year. Or they sign him to a long-term deal this Spring to prevent him from becoming a FA and then let the battle begin.

 

I can tell you right now, Pie is better defensively than Pierre at this moment.

 

If Pie struggles at AAA, do you want him up at the ML level? He's pretty young still, so why rush him?

 

No, I don't want him rushed, but it doesn't be completed by only Pierre. It isn't a Pierre or bust scenario, there are better options.

 

My problem isn't with Pierre, he's an upgrade, he's just not the biggest upgrade out there.

 

Are you still thinking of Michaels?

 

Sure, the Yankees are interested in him and not the Cubs. He's a better player than Pierre, cheaper, more productive, better both offenisvely and defensively, if you made that same offer to Philly, I'd assume they consider it similar to Florida pondering the offer for Pierre.

[Outshined_One]

I thought it was:

 

Pawelek

Marshall

Pinto

Hill

 

Depends on who you ask. Take the NSBB Top Tens, for example:

 

Tim: Pawelek, Hill, Marshall, Pinto

UK: Marshall, Pinto, Pawelek

Raw: Hill, Pawelek, Marshall, Pinto

T2E: Pawelek, Hill, Marshall, Pinto