Would you.....

[LuckyPup]

Take on Beltrans contract from the Mets if they needed us to help facilatate a Manny deal with Boston- I know Manny says he doesn't want to go to NY but thats probably just a ploy, besides he changes his mind like the wind- So would you do a 3 way with the Mets and BoSox?

 

Mets get Manny+Cpatt

Cubs get Beltran+Looper

Bo Sox get Cameron+Diaz+ R.Hill(freeing up money for Damon and perhaps AJ Burnett)

 

If this was placed in front of Hendry should he do it and take on that contract?

[TheDude]

I don't think your deal looks right. I'd have to see the other minor league pieces of the deal.

 

My answer would be, maybe.

 

And is it really too difficult to put any sort of indication what your thread is about in the title?

[Andy]

I would say no and not even think about it. I have no interest in picking up someone who took a crap the minute he got his first big contract.

[jtownie]

I would say no and not even think about it. I have no interest in picking up someone who took a crap the minute he got his first big contract.

 

I think injuries were a huge factor in his taking a "crap." While he definitely isn't worth the contract he received I would only do it if NY picked up a good portion of the money.

[LuckyPup]

I don't think your deal looks right. I'd have to see the other minor league pieces of the deal.

 

My answer would be, maybe.

 

And is it really too difficult to put any sort of indication what your thread is about in the title?

Well, that is a title of a THREAD which is where you go to have DISCUSSION about a topic-thank you for intriging and enlightening jolt into the discussion- I am just like many fans out there who are begging for the Sox to sweap so we can get on with the offseason-just trying to pose questions for discussion- In the future I will outline a descriptive analysis in the thread title so you may determine your availability to interact-

 

Prospects I don't believe are the rub of a deal like this-it is all about money and the right situation- The Sox want Manny and his contract gone, the Mets want Manny but would be fiscally responsible with both Beltran and Manny, and the Cubs need offense and heave money to absorb some contracts-

[BigbadB]

I'd do it. I wanted them to get him last year. They can definitely afford him now. I'd love to see what he can do in the NL central for a whole year.

 

Sign Giles and trade for Beltran and I think you could get away with going with Cedeno AND Murton.

 

Walker

Giles

Lee

Beltran

Ramirez

Murton

Cedeno

Barrett

 

If Murton is still putting up .360+ OBP, move him up to second slot and slide everyone down one, which als breaks up all the righties at the bottom of the line up.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'd do it. I wanted them to get him last year. They can definitely afford him now. I'd love to see what he can do in the NL central for a whole year.

 

Sign Giles and trade for Beltran and I think you could get away with going with Cedeno AND Murton.

 

Walker

Giles

Lee

Beltran

Ramirez

Murton

Cedeno

Barrett

 

If Murton is still putting up .360+ OBP, move him up to second slot and slide everyone down one, which als breaks up all the righties at the bottom of the line up.

 

No speed at the top so it ain't gunna work. If you don't believe me ask Dusty.

[BigbadB]

I'd do it. I wanted them to get him last year. They can definitely afford him now. I'd love to see what he can do in the NL central for a whole year.

 

Sign Giles and trade for Beltran and I think you could get away with going with Cedeno AND Murton.

 

Walker

Giles

Lee

Beltran

Ramirez

Murton

Cedeno

Barrett

 

If Murton is still putting up .360+ OBP, move him up to second slot and slide everyone down one, which als breaks up all the righties at the bottom of the line up.

 

No speed at the top so it ain't gunna work. If you don't believe me ask Dusty.

 

Okay, let Murton and Beltran bat 1/2. I'd be fine with that too.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'd do it. I wanted them to get him last year. They can definitely afford him now. I'd love to see what he can do in the NL central for a whole year.

 

Sign Giles and trade for Beltran and I think you could get away with going with Cedeno AND Murton.

 

Walker

Giles

Lee

Beltran

Ramirez

Murton

Cedeno

Barrett

 

If Murton is still putting up .360+ OBP, move him up to second slot and slide everyone down one, which als breaks up all the righties at the bottom of the line up.

 

No speed at the top so it ain't gunna work. If you don't believe me ask Dusty.

 

Okay, let Murton and Beltran bat 1/2. I'd be fine with that too.

 

Nope...too slow at leadoff. If this is the team Baker has Cedeno batting first.

 

Baker rule 1562773-L: Leadoff hitter must play CF, 2b or SS or have lead off experience.

 

Mind you, I like the first lineup but that has no bearing on the Dustmiester.

[CubinNY]

Take on Beltrans contract from the Mets if they needed us to help facilatate a Manny deal with Boston- I know Manny says he doesn't want to go to NY but thats probably just a ploy, besides he changes his mind like the wind- So would you do a 3 way with the Mets and BoSox?

 

Mets get Manny+Cpatt

Cubs get Beltran+Looper

Bo Sox get Cameron+Diaz+ R.Hill(freeing up money for Damon and perhaps AJ Burnett)

 

If this was placed in front of Hendry should he do it and take on that contract?

 

Are you kidding me? The Cubs make out like an Indian trader on that deal.

 

Beltran played 1/2 of the year with a bad quad. And looper is a prety decent reliever, not great, but not terrible.

 

I do that deal and try not to laugh too hard at Omar while congratulating him on getting manny and corey.

Edited October 26, 2005 by CubinNY

[goonys evil twin]

I don't think your deal looks right. I'd have to see the other minor league pieces of the deal.

 

My answer would be, maybe.

 

I would say maybe as well.

 

When we were talking about the floyd, cameron, glavine 3-some yesterday, I wrote a paragraph asking this very question.

 

What I wonder is how much of Beltran's deal would NYM eat, and how much would you want them to eat? Plus, what talent would have to be given up?

 

I'd take on most of Beltran's deal and give up decent talent in return. But I'm not sure exactly what the details would have to be. I think they'd be interested in Walker, with their weak 2B situation. Beltran doesn't start making a ton of money for a couple years. I think he's still at $11m, but it goes up to $18m later. I'd like to see the Mets take on $2-3m of that each year, then take my chances that he'll be back over the 900 OPS mark in Chicago.

 

But you'd still have to do something with RF.

 

Let's go one step further and discuss what would happen if they added Matsui in that deal. Assume the Mets want to clear money now, but are willing to pay toward Beltran down the road (not unrealistic given their somewhat stagnant payroll situation), and accept less talent for taking on their problem. The Cubs take on an overpriced Matsui this offseason, giving him a shot for leadoff, with Cedeno there to take his job if Matsui sucks. Then you have Beltran hitting 2nd.

 

Crazy moves. I'm not sure I'd do any of it, but it would be an interesting and creative plan of attack by Hendry.

[SAMMYWHO]

With that lineup I agree with Cusefan Cedeno should lead off. He showed great patience and discipline in his 80 MLB at bats. He also posted a .356 OBP. Anyone know how speedy he is? He's definately not considered slow. Beltran would bat 2nd for me with his speed and him being a threat to steal.

 

Cedeno

Beltran

Lee

Giles

Ramirez

Walker

Murton

Barett

 

Or flip flop Walker and Murton.

[goonys evil twin]

The Mets want and need a 1B. They have no use for another CF, with 2 expensive ones already on the roster.

 

Maybe you get another 4 way deal with NYM getting Helton somehow.

 

Chicago

Beltran

Looper

cash for Beltran down the road

 

Boston

Diaz

Williams/Hill

 

Mets

Helton and Manny

 

Colorado

Corey

Sing

a couple Mets prospects

a couple Cubs B arms

[CubinNY]

The Mets want and need a 1B. They have no use for another CF, with 2 expensive ones already on the roster.

 

Maybe you get another 4 way deal with NYM getting Helton somehow.

 

Chicago

Beltran

Looper

cash for Beltran down the road

 

Boston

Diaz

Williams/Hill

 

Mets

Helton and Manny

 

Colorado

Corey

Sing

a couple Mets prospects

a couple Cubs B arms

 

I'd take that deal too.

[SAMMYWHO]

I'm not sure the Rockies would do that deal Goony. Looks like we'd give up Williams or Hill, Sing, a couple B arms and Corey. So that's not bad if the money is right. But, if I was Colorado I wouldn't be crazy on Corey because of his cost and risk. Last I knew Sing was still a little ways away from the Majors so they're really getting the short end of the stick in my opinion. The only positive for them is salary relief.

[HoopsCubs]

The Mets want and need a 1B. They have no use for another CF, with 2 expensive ones already on the roster.

 

Maybe you get another 4 way deal with NYM getting Helton somehow.

 

Chicago

Beltran

Looper

cash for Beltran down the road

 

Boston

Diaz

Williams/Hill

 

Mets

Helton and Manny

 

Colorado

Corey

Sing

a couple Mets prospects

a couple Cubs B arms

 

That's out of box thinking! Exactly the type of thinking that netted us Nomar and Murton.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not sure the Rockies would do that deal Goony. Looks like we'd give up Williams or Hill, Sing, a couple B arms and Corey. So that's not bad if the money is right. But, if I was Colorado I wouldn't be crazy on Corey because of his cost and risk. Last I knew Sing was still a little ways away from the Majors so they're really getting the short end of the stick in my opinion. The only positive for them is salary relief.

 

For them, that positive is huge. The team sucks, and has way too much payroll tied into one player. They are in need of a major overhaul. Opening up that cash flow allows them to talk to Konerko to fill there first base spot, and fill multiple holes at once.

 

Sing is probably either ready to at least make a roster, or never do anything in the majors. He's 25 this season, with over 2500 pro plate appearances, including back to back bigtime seasons. He's always had a solid K/BB. I think Colorado could make good use of a bat like that.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Mets want and need a 1B. They have no use for another CF, with 2 expensive ones already on the roster.

 

Maybe you get another 4 way deal with NYM getting Helton somehow.

 

Chicago

Beltran

Looper

cash for Beltran down the road

 

Boston

Diaz

Williams/Hill

 

Mets

Helton and Manny

 

Colorado

Corey

Sing

a couple Mets prospects

a couple Cubs B arms

 

Mets want a 1B?

 

Lee to NY, Beltran to Boston, Manny to the Cubs. Mets send us some cash over the next several years.

[goonys evil twin]

Lee to NY, Beltran to Boston, Manny to the Cubs. Mets send us some cash over the next several years.

 

Lee for Manny? No thanks. The Cubs spend a whole lot more money, and don't get any better than the 2005 team.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Lee to NY, Beltran to Boston, Manny to the Cubs. Mets send us some cash over the next several years.

 

Lee for Manny? No thanks. The Cubs spend a whole lot more money, and don't get any better than the 2005 team.

 

Depends on how much money you get from the Mets. Whether or not you improve from the 2005 team or not, Manny is a likely step up from what Lee will provide offensively next season. Just throwing it out there. Our best chance for landing an impact bat might be trading Lee + prospects for said impact bat and another quality player.

[UMFan83]

Corey and Hill for a better version of Corey and an above average reliever?

 

It depends on how much money they eat I guess.

[goonys evil twin]

Lee to NY, Beltran to Boston, Manny to the Cubs. Mets send us some cash over the next several years.

 

Lee for Manny? No thanks. The Cubs spend a whole lot more money, and don't get any better than the 2005 team.

 

Depends on how much money you get from the Mets. Whether or not you improve from the 2005 team or not, Manny is a likely step up from what Lee will provide offensively next season. Just throwing it out there. Our best chance for landing an impact bat might be trading Lee + prospects for said impact bat and another quality player.

 

Lee is an impact bat. I don't think he'll repeat his numbers, but I think he'll be a 900+ OPS hitter. That "quality player" would have to be another 900+ OPS hitter to justify a deal. This team needs to get better than they were in 2005. They couldn't take advantage of that career year by Lee, I don't see any way they'd win if they simply traded Lee for another impact bat, without acquiring a 2nd impact bat.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Lee to NY, Beltran to Boston, Manny to the Cubs. Mets send us some cash over the next several years.

 

Lee for Manny? No thanks. The Cubs spend a whole lot more money, and don't get any better than the 2005 team.

 

Depends on how much money you get from the Mets. Whether or not you improve from the 2005 team or not, Manny is a likely step up from what Lee will provide offensively next season. Just throwing it out there. Our best chance for landing an impact bat might be trading Lee + prospects for said impact bat and another quality player.

 

Lee is an impact bat. I don't think he'll repeat his numbers, but I think he'll be a 900+ OPS hitter. That "quality player" would have to be another 900+ OPS hitter to justify a deal. This team needs to get better than they were in 2005. They couldn't take advantage of that career year by Lee, I don't see any way they'd win if they simply traded Lee for another impact bat, without acquiring a 2nd impact bat.

 

Think of it this way. Once Giles is gone, the quality bats in the OF are nonexistent. So if the Cubs were to trade Lee and prospects for Manny and say, Milton Bradley(not a .900 OPS guy, and I have no idea of how that trade would work out), then they still have money to go out and sign Konerko to play 1B. So now they have someone who's just about Lee's equal offensively next year, plus Manny and Bradley, and the only real tradeoff is prospects plus the increase in salary.

 

Just trying to explore all the possiblities here.

[rawaction]

Take on Beltrans contract from the Mets if they needed us to help facilatate a Manny deal with Boston- I know Manny says he doesn't want to go to NY but thats probably just a ploy, besides he changes his mind like the wind- So would you do a 3 way with the Mets and BoSox?

 

Mets get Manny+Cpatt

Cubs get Beltran+Looper

Bo Sox get Cameron+Diaz+ R.Hill(freeing up money for Damon and perhaps AJ Burnett)

 

If this was placed in front of Hendry should he do it and take on that contract?

 

Red Sox make out in that deal.....literally!

[goonys evil twin]

Think of it this way. Once Giles is gone, the quality bats in the OF are nonexistent. So if the Cubs were to trade Lee and prospects for Manny and say, Milton Bradley(not a .900 OPS guy, and I have no idea of how that trade would work out), then they still have money to go out and sign Konerko to play 1B. So now they have someone who's just about Lee's equal offensively next year, plus Manny and Bradley, and the only real tradeoff is prospects plus the increase in salary.

 

Just trying to explore all the possiblities here.

 

Like I said before, I have no problem trading a guy like Lee if the team gets better, but as your post makes clear, it would be extremely difficult to make that work. First off, I'm not even sure you can get away with saying Konerko is Lee's equal. Prior to this year there was a case to be made. But Lee was often better, and he was never as bad as Konerko in 2003. Now, Lee did have a career year this season, but so did Konerko. I might expect Lee to decline a little further than Paul, but not enough to significantly close the gap.

 

Furthermore, the chances of getting Konerko, after taking on that Manny deal are slim and none. There are lots of teams looking for 1B help, including the Yankees, Mets and Red Sox (+ LA, and if they have a brain, Anaheim).

 

A Cubs team with Manny, Bradley, and Konerko might be better than last year's team, but I'm not sure I want Milton and Manny in the same OF. And you're getting worse offensively, and you still have SS issues to settle, with much less financial room to do it. And that's far too complicated to be sure you can pull it all off. Basically, you couldn't trade Lee unless you knew you could get Konerko, you couldn't sign Konerko until you'd already traded Lee.

 

It's far too complicated for my taste.

 

I'd much rather see them simply sign an impact RF or trade for one, and be done with it.