NY Post Rumours: CF Blues and Pitching News

[Exile on Waveland]

Random thoughts, so no quoting:

 

1. I would be extremely reluctant to deal Murton. Not sure how he'll produce next year, but the Cubs need him in LF. As far as I'm concerned LF is the only outfield position that's settled. I wouldn't trade him and Williams for Zito; wouldn't even think about it. It opens up too many holes elsewhere. Trading him for a stud outfielder is acceptable, obviously, though.

 

2. I do, however, have interest in Zito. I wouldn't trade the farm, but he'd fill out the rotation nicely with a lefty -- which I think is important, maybe only because opposing managers think it is and react to it -- who's also still pretty young.

 

3. If Prior's a No. 3, the team's in trouble (unless Oswalt or Santana is No. 1, which ain't happening). I don't think the Cubs need a front of the rotation starter. A solid, innings-eater is what's called for, in my opinion. The Cubs have the talented (though, perhaps boom-or-bust) frontline guys. This may be senseless labeling, I admit.

 

4. I wouldn't just dump Hill for anyone, but I also wouldn't hesitate to trade him. I have serious questions about his ability to be a good major league starter. I'd agree that it's very possible this is the highest his trade value will be. That's my opinion.

 

5. I would trade Hill for Bradley, but I don't think it would be necessary. The Dodgers are in all-out dump Bradley mode, a la Cubs and Sosa.

 

5. I agree with Goony that the Cubs, with their payroll, should feature a top-5 offense and a top-5 pitching staff. However, I think it's going to be difficult to get the offense into the top-5. It would take Giles and another equivalent. That's not going to happen. Heck, I doubt the Cubs get one player like that.

First priority would be to get a stud OF. If that fails -- which I expect it will, unfortunately -- I'd be very, very tempted to go overboard with pitching. Deal for Bradley (hopefully the Bradley-Castillo-Lowe or something of the like comes through), either sign Furcal or re-sign Nomar (my vote) for shortstop and full-court press the pitching. Sign Ryan or Wagner, Dotel and trade/sign for a pitcher like Zito. It's not perfect, the offense would still be lacking as more than tweaking is needed -- who in RF? -- but it may be the best reasonable course of action.

[CubfaninCA]

A few things...

 

If healthy, Prior and Z are basically #1's and Zito and Wood are basically #2's.

 

As for my statement about preferring a #1 pitching staff and a #5-6 offence, I was just emphasizing my preference. There's never guarantees w/ anything.

 

As for getting a #2 or #3 pitcher, the options are slim just like getting a really good rf. Burnett & Millwood could be way overpriced. The Cubs could pull a deal for Livan Hernandez though.

[CubfaninCA]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

[goonys evil twin]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

 

There is no way to go out and acquire AVG with RISP. It's not something that carries over from year to year. They need to get production, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how far they were from being 5th or 6th, they weren't 5th or 6th. Year after year they fail to rank high in runs and it's always because they fail to recognize the importance of having their hitters work counts and take walks. Lack of OBP has been the problem and it has to be addressed. If Hendry simply "tweaks" this offense, he's committing malpractice.

[CubfaninCA]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

 

There is no way to go out and acquire AVG with RISP. It's not something that carries over from year to year. They need to get production, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how far they were from being 5th or 6th, they weren't 5th or 6th. Year after year they fail to rank high in runs and it's always because they fail to recognize the importance of having their hitters work counts and take walks. Lack of OBP has been the problem and it has to be addressed. If Hendry simply "tweaks" this offense, he's committing malpractice.

 

Well, if they move Burnitz out of the 4 or 5 hole, that has to help avg w/ risp, but I mostly agree that you can't go out and acquire avg w/ risp. However, if the law of averages balances out some the Cubs should be able to get some more runs across the plate. Furcal & Floyd would be huge improvements over what they got from the 1 and 4/5 hitters.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The Cubs need--

 

1. New CF

2. New RF

3. One new middle infielder (SS or 2B)

4. One veteran starting pitcher

5. 8th inning setup man

6. One (or two) quality middle relievers

7. Other than Blanco and Hairston, an entirely new bench

 

Plus, one of the new position players must be a leadoff man, and one of them must be a high OBP #3 hitter in the lineup. That is an AWFUL lot of holes to fill in one off-season. Nice job, JH.

[jtownie]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

 

There is no way to go out and acquire AVG with RISP. It's not something that carries over from year to year. They need to get production, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how far they were from being 5th or 6th, they weren't 5th or 6th. Year after year they fail to rank high in runs and it's always because they fail to recognize the importance of having their hitters work counts and take walks. Lack of OBP has been the problem and it has to be addressed. If Hendry simply "tweaks" this offense, he's committing malpractice.

 

Well, if they move Burnitz out of the 4 or 5 hole, that has to help avg w/ risp, but I mostly agree that you can't go out and acquire avg w/ risp. However, if the law of averages balances out some the Cubs should be able to get some more runs across the plate. Furcal & Floyd would be huge improvements over what they got from the 1 and 4/5 hitters.

 

If the law of averages applied to the Cubs we wouldn't be going into year 98 without a Championship.

 

Plain and simple, we need guys that can get on On Base. Meaning upgrades in CF and RF are definites.

[stitchface]

A few things...

 

If healthy, Prior and Z are basically #1's and Zito and Wood are basically #2's.

 

As for my statement about preferring a #1 pitching staff and a #5-6 offence, I was just emphasizing my preference. There's never guarantees w/ anything.

 

As for getting a #2 or #3 pitcher, the options are slim just like getting a really good rf. Burnett & Millwood could be way overpriced. The Cubs could pull a deal for Livan Hernandez though.

 

I would take a healthy wood over zito. Zito has to be pinpoint to succeed. I see Barry as a middle of the rotation starter on a general basis and an occasional dominator. The jury is still out on wood although he clearly has the stuff to dominate night in and night out.

[RynoRules]

I find it amusing that Prior is now labeled a "#3" starter and Wood a "#4" starter. Of course those labels are meaningless, but the Cubs don't need a #2 starter nearly as badly as they need those two to be healthy. The point being that you are much better off spending your resources on offense as the risk is far less than the risk with pitchers. Plus, the Cubs have been far more successful in drafting and developing pitchers than hitters.

 

Agreed. There is no way Prior is a #3 starter. Zito is not better than Prior. It is ridiculous to even suggest that he is.

 

I agree that Prior is better at this point, but he's never put together the sort of season that Zito has.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I find it amusing that Prior is now labeled a "#3" starter and Wood a "#4" starter. Of course those labels are meaningless, but the Cubs don't need a #2 starter nearly as badly as they need those two to be healthy. The point being that you are much better off spending your resources on offense as the risk is far less than the risk with pitchers. Plus, the Cubs have been far more successful in drafting and developing pitchers than hitters.

 

Agreed. There is no way Prior is a #3 starter. Zito is not better than Prior. It is ridiculous to even suggest that he is.

 

I agree that Prior is better at this point, but he's never put together the sort of season that Zito has.

 

Zito's best season, 2002, he had a 169 ERA+

 

Prior's best season, 2003, he had a 175 ERA+

[Bull]

Random thoughts, so no quoting:

 

 

Just 'cause I'm like that/

[Exile on Waveland]

Random thoughts, so no quoting:

 

 

Just 'cause I'm like that/

 

Haha, but I meant NO quoting. Seriously. No, really, I mean it.

 

At least, everyone else must have thought so. Or maybe they didn't care what I had to say. That's probably more likely.

[David]

The Cubs need--

 

1. New CF

2. New RF

3. One new middle infielder (SS or 2B)

4. One veteran starting pitcher

5. 8th inning setup man

6. One (or two) quality middle relievers

7. Other than Blanco and Hairston, an entirely new bench

 

Plus, one of the new position players must be a leadoff man, and one of them must be a high OBP #3 hitter in the lineup. That is an AWFUL lot of holes to fill in one off-season. Nice job, JH.

 

The really sad thing is that most of these holes could've been filled with last year's free agent class. :x

[Jehrico]

Hairston + one of Mitre/Welly/Leicester for Bradley, anyone?

[JeffH]

Hairston + one of Mitre/Welly/Leicester for Bradley, anyone?

 

Done.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hairston + one of Mitre/Welly/Leicester for Bradley, anyone?

 

How cheap does Bradley come if we take Lowe as well?

[CuseCubFan69]

Hairston + one of Mitre/Welly/Leicester for Bradley, anyone?

 

How cheap does Bradley come if we take Lowe as well?

 

The words cheap and Lowe don't really mix Vance. :wink:

 

It would be nice to see the Cubs pick up all of Lowes contract and get Bradley while hopefully not costing the Cubs an arm and a leg player wise. Then sign Giles or trade for another impact bat.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hairston + one of Mitre/Welly/Leicester for Bradley, anyone?

 

How cheap does Bradley come if we take Lowe as well?

 

The words cheap and Lowe don't really mix Vance. :wink:

 

It would be nice to see the Cubs pick up all of Lowes contract and get Bradley while hopefully not costing the Cubs an arm and a leg player wise. Then sign Giles or trade for another impact bat.

 

I'm still holding out hope that the rumor Hoops floated about the Cubs giving up Nolasco, Walker, and a prospect for Lowe, Bradley, and Castillo comes to fruition.

[nilodnayr]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

If you call those two moves "tweaks" then no offense, but you are on crack.

[nilodnayr]

Would Jerome Williams be a pitcher who would interest the A's in a deal for Zito?

 

Hoops, any more word on whether that three-way with the Cubs, Marlins, and Dodgers with the Cubs getting Castillo, Bradley and Lowe has any legitimacy?

The original post said the A's were looking for some one who throws strikes, Williams will never be accused of that (or at least not last year for sure).

[CuseCubFan69]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

If you call those two moves "tweaks" then no offense, but you are on crack.

 

Actually saying somebody might be on crack is offensive IMO.

[nilodnayr]

Why not just keep Williams as our #5 and look to trade minorleaguers for OF help.

 

I'd trade Hill before others figure out he has only one ML quality pitch, even as good as it is. With his major problem being HR allowed, perhaps he would be better suited to Dodger Stadium.

 

He has a low 90's fastball to go with that curve. I'm not opposed to trading Hill, but he wouldn't be the first chip I'd offer up.

 

A very straight and hittable low 90's fastball. And I wouldn't throw him away, but I wouldn't hesitate for a nanosecond to trade him for any significant offensive help.

 

The key word there being "significant." I would definitely include Hill in a deal for the right player. By right player, I mean Wilkerson, Dunn, Manny, Marcus Giles, or players of that caliber.

 

I'm not sure I'd be eager to include Hill in a deal for Jose Guillen, Raul Ibanez, Cliff Floyd, or players in that tier.

 

A lot depends on what I'm getting.

 

I'd trade him for Milton Bradley.

 

If the Dodgers are looking to move Bradley, I don't think it's necessary to trade Hill to get him. If it was Hill for Bradley straight-up, I might look to do that. I seriously doubt I'd offer Hill + something to get Bradley, unless that "something" was stuff I didn't want.

 

Remember when Bruce told us Hendry said he wouldn't do Hill for Dunn straight up? Yeah that was the saddest day ever...something tells me Hill for Bradley isnt gonna happen.

[nilodnayr]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

If you call those two moves "tweaks" then no offense, but you are on crack.

 

Actually saying somebody might be on crack is offensive IMO.

 

Frankly if you consider signing a top 5 FA and trading for 6M player who just put up 275/35/100 "tweaks" then you can't be sober.

[XZero771679666304]

Tweak the offense some and it can sneak into the top 5. The problems w/ the offense are over-dramatized here.

 

It'll take much more than a tweak. The problems that have plagued this team, have plagued them for years and are not being exaggerated. The Cubs were 9th in runs scored this year. They were that low because of low OBP, and the low OBP was because they took few walks. It would take 1 or 2 bats to turn things around if those 1 or 2 were big impacts like Giles. But things will not be fixed with Furcal and a mediocre RF. They need impact out there.

 

No matter what you do with the pitching staff, there's no way to guarantee a top 1 or 2 staff, with the fragile nature of that aspect of the game. You can't put all your emphasis on pitching and just think this offense will get fixed with tweaks. They've been tweaking it for 3 years and it just keeps getting worse.

 

They were 23 runs out of 6th and 36 out of 5th. Replace Neifi/Patterson @ the top of the order w/ Furcal and replace Floyd w/ Burnitz, and they should be able to get into the top 6. Get some hits w/ runners on base for a change and they can be top 5. Weren't they near the bottom in hitting w/ RISP?? Burnitz needs to go!!

If you call those two moves "tweaks" then no offense, but you are on crack.

 

Actually saying somebody might be on crack is offensive IMO.

 

Frankly if you consider signing a top 5 FA and trading for 6M player who just put up 275/35/100 "tweaks" then you can't be sober.

 

Easy, it's just semantics.

[nilodnayr]

Hoops have you heard Giles' name at all from any sources?Do you feel like the cubs have a legit shot at him?I personally don't see him leaving So Cal but any word on him being on the rada?

 

Sorry BD. I have no relevant information about the Cubs interest in Brian Giles. That's not to say he isn't on the radar, but rather, I don't know if he is or isn't. All I can say is that I have verified through my sources that Jim Hendry is aware that Giles is a free agent. :roll:

 

As for my personal opinion, I'm 90% confident the Cubs have more money available to spend this offseason than any other NL team. I base that comment by taking the 2005 payroll for each club and subtracting off 2006 guaranteed contracts. That puts the Cubs at about $43-44M. The Mets have about $39-40M. The Cards, Padres and Braves have about $29-32M. So, if Giles is looking for the most money, the Cubs and Mets can offer him the most money. But, if he's looking to win consistently, the Cards and Braves do have enough money to make it happen. It would be terrible if he went to St. Louis. He could end up in Atlanta if he provides a bit of discount to play with his brother. SD can afford him too. But unlike St. Louis, who has the majority of their guaranteed contracts in guys like Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, Mulder and Isringhausen, or Atlanta, who has Jones, Jones, Smoltz and Hudson, the Padres have their guaranteed contracts in Chan Ho Park and Ryan Klesko. Assuming Giles does not want to play in the NY spotlight, does not plan to give his hometown Padres a discount, and prefers to play for a consistent playoff team, I see Atlanta 1, St. Louis 2 and the Cubs 3 in the Giles sweepstakes.

 

Hoops

 

Ugh, I just did the braves salary and lost it, but trust me, fill out their roster and without signing furcal, or anyone other than the arbi and prearbi players they can fill out their roster in house for 80-82M (based on a few difficult arbi estimates. Their current salary is 85M, Hoops, I have no clue where you got your number. The card are a little more difficult since most likely they will get some extra cash to play around with due to the stadium, but basically without Walker and Sanders, they come out around flat compared to last year because of built in raises. If some one really wants me to go through and fill out the salaries again I will.