Rumoured Cubs- Marlins/Cubs-Dodgers Trades

[BigbadB]

I have absolutely no faith in anyone in the Cubs system that Neifi will be sent packing this offseason. They have already entertained thoughts of letting both Walker and Nomar walk. Do you think they would also let Neifi walk? He filled in nicely in Nomar and Walker's absence, therefore he will be considered a nice bench player who could "fill in" when times get tough. If there is any remote consideration for Cedeno as an opening day starter, you better believe that Dusty will have Neifi waiting in the wings the first time Cedeno has an Ofer.

 

The Cubs did not address their biggest problem ALL YEAR. OBP. 162 games went by and they ran the same guys out there. Murton, Cedeno, Walker and Hairston were the only real options to hit at the top of the order, yet Patterson, Macias and Perez had more than their fair share of at bats there. To me, this says they prefer the aggresive approach. Nothing has convinced me that they intend to change that approach. They didn't move Murton to the top of the order while he was sporting a .400 OBP. In 2003, they attempted to convert OBP machine Mark Bellhorn into an RBI machine at the bottom of the order. Instead of hitting him at the top of the order where he could do the most damage, they let him draw walks for the bad 8th and 9th place hitters. In 2004, Rey F. Ordonez had a ridiculous amount of at bats in the #2 spot in the order.

 

With that said, I don't find it at all unlikely to think that Preston Wilson, Jeromy Burnitz among others of that same mold get a contract to play for the Cubs in 2006.

[MPrior]

The nice thing, I guess, is that this is really kind of a worst-case scenario. Hendry may not think in the same way we do, and thus may not see going after Giles as the no-brainer that many of us do, but he still typically makes some pretty bold moves (last offseason excepted, but that was really because of Sosa's contract). So I think he'll do more than signing Wilson and/or Furcal, even if it's not exactly what we want him to do.

 

It doesn't scare you just a little bit that they trotted Corey Patterson, Neifi Perez and Jose Macias out there at the top of the order all year long when better options were available? It sure scares me that this team doesn't seem to think there is a serious problem with the offense (lack of OBP).

 

To hear the press leaks for Preston Wilson and other leaks about not retaining Nomar or Walker leads me to believe that they don't think there is a problem. They seem to be all too interested in Furcal. But, I'll bet they are interested in Furcal because of his speed. Baker has been quoted as saying you need a speed guy at the top of the order. I wonder if they even know what Furcal's OBP was this past year. That's what is scary.

 

Of course that terrifies me. I am firmly entrenched in the OBP-is-good-and-therefore-we-should-fire-Dusty-Baker camp. I also think that Hendry probably doesn't value OBP (or understand Dusty Baker's idiocy)nearly enough to field the best team that he can. At the same time, I do have faith that with the amount of money that Hendry has at his disposal, and given his track record in the past, he will do more than sign Furcal and Preston Wilson.

[CubfaninCA]

I have absolutely no faith in anyone in the Cubs system that Neifi will be sent packing this offseason. They have already entertained thoughts of letting both Walker and Nomar walk. Do you think they would also let Neifi walk? He filled in nicely in Nomar and Walker's absence, therefore he will be considered a nice bench player who could "fill in" when times get tough. If there is any remote consideration for Cedeno as an opening day starter, you better believe that Dusty will have Neifi waiting in the wings the first time Cedeno has an Ofer.

 

The Cubs did not address their biggest problem ALL YEAR. OBP. 162 games went by and they ran the same guys out there. Murton, Cedeno, Walker and Hairston were the only real options to hit at the top of the order, yet Patterson, Macias and Perez had more than their fair share of at bats there. To me, this says they prefer the aggresive approach. Nothing has convinced me that they intend to change that approach. They didn't move Murton to the top of the order while he was sporting a .400 OBP. In 2003, they attempted to convert OBP machine Mark Bellhorn into an RBI machine at the bottom of the order. Instead of hitting him at the top of the order where he could do the most damage, they let him draw walks for the bad 8th and 9th place hitters. In 2004, Rey F. Ordonez had a ridiculous amount of at bats in the #2 spot in the order.

 

With that said, I don't find it at all unlikely to think that Preston Wilson, Jeromy Burnitz among others of that same mold get a contract to play for the Cubs in 2006.

 

They didn't try to address obp when they traded for Lawton?? Nomar & Walker being hurt so much messed up the top of the order for most of the season. Then when they got both back ARam went down and they had to bat Nomar 4th or 5th. Patterson being beyond brutal was a killer as well. I doubt anyone foresaw a .254 obp. .330 was more likely.

 

Come back w/ Nomar & Walker again and they're probably in the same boat by May. However, I think Hendry won't go this route again and get burnt twice. He'll go hard after Furcal. Hendry's not as clueless as some like to portray here. What can you do when Nomar/WAlker/ARam miss 200 games and Patterson implodes.

[RockTheIvy]

I think what we do with Jose Macias will be a big indicator of the approach this offseason. Please don't resign him. I could live with Neifi! IF he was used as a backup, maybe coming in for defensive purposes in the late innings, like the Red Sox did with Pokey Reese. The problem though, as we have discussed ad nauseum, is that Dusty will take a Ronny Cedeno 0-3 with a walk and say he is slumping and then we'll see Neifi! start the rest of the year. Again.

[CubinNY]

To hear the press leaks for Preston Wilson and other leaks about not retaining Nomar or Walker leads me to believe that they don't think there is a problem. They seem to be all too interested in Furcal. But, I'll bet they are interested in Furcal because of his speed. Baker has been quoted as saying you need a speed guy at the top of the order. I wonder if they even know what Furcal's OBP was this past year. That's what is scary.

 

Right! The first step in solving a problem is realzing you have a problem. I don't know if the Cubs have made that step although Baker and Hendry have at least discussed it.

 

I could see a line up:

 

Furcal SS

Cedeno 2nd

Lee 1st

Rameriz 3rd

Floyd Rf

Wilson CF

Barrett C

Murton LF

 

Likely, a little better than this year, but I don't think it is a playoff calibur everyday line up.

[frostwyrm]

The nice thing, I guess, is that this is really kind of a worst-case scenario. Hendry may not think in the same way we do, and thus may not see going after Giles as the no-brainer that many of us do, but he still typically makes some pretty bold moves (last offseason excepted, but that was really because of Sosa's contract). So I think he'll do more than signing Wilson and/or Furcal, even if it's not exactly what we want him to do.

 

It doesn't scare you just a little bit that they trotted Corey Patterson, Neifi Perez and Jose Macias out there at the top of the order all year long when better options were available? It sure scares me that this team doesn't seem to think there is a serious problem with the offense (lack of OBP).

 

To hear the press leaks for Preston Wilson and other leaks about not retaining Nomar or Walker leads me to believe that they don't think there is a problem. They seem to be all too interested in Furcal. But, I'll bet they are interested in Furcal because of his speed. Baker has been quoted as saying you need a speed guy at the top of the order. I wonder if they even know what Furcal's OBP was this past year. That's what is scary.

 

I agree that Hendry will almost certainly go after Furcal. I'd rather the Cubs just hand the starting SS job to Cedeno but that is probably a pipe dream, and I doubt it would work out for the best anyway. There would have to be a veteran backup SS on the roster, and the veteran would inevitably end up the starter unless Cedeno could avoid even the most minor of slumps.

[LoneStarCubFan]

I agree that Hendry will almost certainly go after Furcal. I'd rather the Cubs just hand the starting SS job to Cedeno but that is probably a pipe dream, and I doubt it would work out for the best anyway. There would have to be a veteran backup SS on the roster, and the veteran would inevitably end up the starter unless Cedeno could avoid even the most minor of slumps.

 

Say hello to Rich Aurilia.

[Exile on Waveland]

To hear the press leaks for Preston Wilson and other leaks about not retaining Nomar or Walker leads me to believe that they don't think there is a problem. They seem to be all too interested in Furcal. But, I'll bet they are interested in Furcal because of his speed. Baker has been quoted as saying you need a speed guy at the top of the order. I wonder if they even know what Furcal's OBP was this past year. That's what is scary.

 

Right! The first step in solving a problem is realzing you have a problem. I don't know if the Cubs have made that step although Baker and Hendry have at least discussed it.

 

I could see a line up:

 

Furcal SS

Cedeno 2nd

Lee 1st

Rameriz 3rd

Floyd Rf

Wilson CF

Barrett C

Murton LF

 

Likely, a little better than this year, but I don't think it is a playoff calibur everyday line up.

 

I don't like that lineup, but it is better than this year's version, I'd think. The Cubs need to go into next season with a stronger lineup than that -- though I'm expecting something similar. However, if the pitching stayed relatively healthy -- a huge IF -- that lineup would probably be good enough for playoff contention. Not division contention, which is what the Cubs should be shooting for, but the wild card would be a possibility, I think.

[CubfaninCA]

I don't see it happening, but if the Cubs did sign Preston Wilson why would it be such an awful pickup, especially if they add Castillo, Bradley and Furcal??

 

I know some like to romanticize about Giles and a lineup w/ all .360+ obpers, but this is unrealistic. Wilson would fit in well as a 6 hitter. His ops from last year was only 10 point off 5 place for cf's.

 

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't see it happening, but if the Cubs did sign Preston Wilson why would it be such an awful pickup, especially if they add Castillo, Bradley and Furcal??

 

I know some like to romanticize about Giles and a lineup w/ all .360+ obpers, but this is unrealistic. Wilson would fit in well as a 6 hitter. His ops from last year was only 10 point off 5 place for cf's.

 

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

 

I'd rather sign a guy like Randy Winn (who is a FA, IIRC) who will provide a little pop and get on base than another windmill like Wilson.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't see it happening, but if the Cubs did sign Preston Wilson why would it be such an awful pickup, especially if they add Castillo, Bradley and Furcal??

 

I know some like to romanticize about Giles and a lineup w/ all .360+ obpers, but this is unrealistic. Wilson would fit in well as a 6 hitter. His ops from last year was only 10 point off 5 place for cf's.

 

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

 

Wilson the last couple years was very similar to Corey's career numbers. He doesn't get on base, and that's the single biggest problem with this team. He's overpaid due to some early success and overhype. He would not help this team one bit. The negatives about Wilson have been listed repeatedly.

[CubfaninCA]

I don't see it happening, but if the Cubs did sign Preston Wilson why would it be such an awful pickup, especially if they add Castillo, Bradley and Furcal??

 

I know some like to romanticize about Giles and a lineup w/ all .360+ obpers, but this is unrealistic. Wilson would fit in well as a 6 hitter. His ops from last year was only 10 point off 5 place for cf's.

 

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

 

Wilson the last couple years was very similar to Corey's career numbers. He doesn't get on base, and that's the single biggest problem with this team. He's overpaid due to some early success and overhype. He would not help this team one bit. The negatives about Wilson have been listed repeatedly.

 

Why is obp such a necessity in the 6 hole, if you're getting really good obp from 1-5 and Murton and Barrett are pretty good??

 

With the options out there, Wilson is not bad at all. I take it you don't want Pie or Patterson in cf. The lists of really good OF's isn't very deep after Giles, and the Cubs don't have a lot of assets to trade away for good OF's. Their farm system is not stocked w/ future superstars.

[BigbadB]

Why is a whole line up of .350+ OBP guys not realistic?

 

Walker/Hairston/Lofton covering 2nd/CF

Nomar/Furcal

Aramis

Lee

Barrett

Giles/Abreu/Bradley/Murton/Dunn/Huff/Damon/Floyd

 

Take 3 names out of that outfield group and you have guys who all can put up .350+ OBP's to go along with all the guys we had last year that could do it.

 

You only sign a token Preston Wilson type guy if 6 or 7 of the other guys are locked in and good production guys.

[BigbadB]

I don't see it happening, but if the Cubs did sign Preston Wilson why would it be such an awful pickup, especially if they add Castillo, Bradley and Furcal??

 

I know some like to romanticize about Giles and a lineup w/ all .360+ obpers, but this is unrealistic. Wilson would fit in well as a 6 hitter. His ops from last year was only 10 point off 5 place for cf's.

 

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

 

Wilson the last couple years was very similar to Corey's career numbers. He doesn't get on base, and that's the single biggest problem with this team. He's overpaid due to some early success and overhype. He would not help this team one bit. The negatives about Wilson have been listed repeatedly.

 

Why is obp such a necessity in the 6 hole, if you're getting really good obp from 1-5 and Murton and Barrett are pretty good??

 

With the options out there, Wilson is not bad at all. I take it you don't want Pie or Patterson in cf. The lists of really good OF's isn't very deep after Giles, and the Cubs don't have a lot of assets to trade away for good OF's. Their farm system is not stocked w/ future superstars.

 

I sit on the side of the fence that says you don't necessarily need a good OBP in the 6 spot. But, if you don't have a good OBP, you at least need to have a good AVG to hit 6th. The 6th spot in the order will be hitting directly behind the best OBP guys in the line up. That good AVG (Nomar Garciaparra) will drive in a lot more runs than someone like Preston Wilson, who doesn't have a good OBP or AVG.

[soapy]

Why is a whole line up of .350+ OBP guys not realistic?

 

Walker/Hairston/Lofton covering 2nd/CF

Nomar/Furcal

Aramis

Lee

Barrett

Giles/Abreu/Bradley/Murton/Dunn/Huff/Damon/Floyd

 

Take 3 names out of that outfield group and you have guys who all can put up .350+ OBP's to go along with all the guys we had last year that could do it.

 

You only sign a token Preston Wilson type guy if 6 or 7 of the other guys are locked in and good production guys.

 

Lineup:

 

Furcal SS

Murton LF

Lee 1B

Floyd RF

Ramirez 3B

Bradley CF

Berrett C

Cedeno 2B

[rawaction]

Why is a whole line up of .350+ OBP guys not realistic?

 

Walker/Hairston/Lofton covering 2nd/CF

Nomar/Furcal

Aramis

Lee

Barrett

Giles/Abreu/Bradley/Murton/Dunn/Huff/Damon/Floyd

 

Take 3 names out of that outfield group and you have guys who all can put up .350+ OBP's to go along with all the guys we had last year that could do it.

 

You only sign a token Preston Wilson type guy if 6 or 7 of the other guys are locked in and good production guys.

 

That last line says a lot. Also, if you do have 7 .350 OBPs in place, then you might as go with a player with upside like Patterson or Cedeno and save the money you would spend on Wilson.

[BigbadB]

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

 

The list you just provided has 7 out of 8 guys who can provide .350+ OBP.

You also have Milton Bradley AND Preston Wilson listed. You want to see whining and crying and unhappiness on day 1? Have those two on your roster and only put one of them in centerfield. Trade for Bradley and don't sign Wilson. Trade for some other good OBP/power guy and you have 8 instead of 7.

[rawaction]

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

 

The list you just provided has 7 out of 8 guys who can provide .350+ OBP.

You also have Milton Bradley AND Preston Wilson listed. You want to see whining and crying and unhappiness on day 1? Have those two on your roster and only put one of them in centerfield. Trade for Bradley and don't sign Wilson. Trade for some other good OBP/power guy and you have 8 instead of 7.

 

If the Cubs aren't gonna get Giles and guys like Manny, Dunn, etc don't change teams. I would hope the Cubs would go after two .350-.370 OBP guys for CF and RF....along with boosting (or keeping) the OBP in the middle IF. Bradley and Cliff Floyd would be decent, but not necessarily ideal. I think at the very least, the Cubs would be very balanced R/L and OBP/Power, with speed and switch hitters and versatility.

[frostwyrm]

I suspect Hendry values Preston Wilson far more highly than this message board and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he becomes a Cub and bats leadoff.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I don't see it happening, but if the Cubs did sign Preston Wilson why would it be such an awful pickup, especially if they add Castillo, Bradley and Furcal??

 

I know some like to romanticize about Giles and a lineup w/ all .360+ obpers, but this is unrealistic. Wilson would fit in well as a 6 hitter. His ops from last year was only 10 point off 5 place for cf's.

 

Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

I'd rather sign a guy like Randy Winn (who is a FA, IIRC) who will provide a little pop and get on base than another windmill like Wilson.

 

I don't think Winn is a FA. I believe the Giants picked up his option for 2006, already. The traded for him with 2006 in mind, not 05. So cross off Winn.

[rawaction]

I suspect Hendry values Preston Wilson far more highly than this message board and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he becomes a Cub and bats leadoff.

 

Wilson never has and never will be a leadoff hitter. I wouldn't go that far. And I am holding out hope that Hendry won't go after Wilson because of Felix Pie likely being able to take over CF in 2007 at the latest. Wilson won't take a 1-year deal.

[MPrior]

I suspect Hendry values Preston Wilson far more highly than this message board and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he becomes a Cub and bats leadoff.

 

Wilson never has and never will be a leadoff hitter. I wouldn't go that far. And I am holding out hope that Hendry won't go after Wilson because of Felix Pie likely being able to take over CF in 2007 at the latest. Wilson won't take a 1-year deal.

 

This is the most encouraging thing to me - that Hendry probably won't sign Preston Wilson, even if it's not for the reasons we think he shouldn't be signed. I'm pretty certain Hendry doesn't want to block Pie. I would definitely not be surprised (or unhappy) to see Lofton in CF next year, as he would provide a cheap, one-year stopgap with decent to high OBP.

[frostwyrm]

I suspect Hendry values Preston Wilson far more highly than this message board and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he becomes a Cub and bats leadoff.

 

Wilson never has and never will be a leadoff hitter. I wouldn't go that far. And I am holding out hope that Hendry won't go after Wilson because of Felix Pie likely being able to take over CF in 2007 at the latest. Wilson won't take a 1-year deal.

 

I didn't know Wilson wouldn't take a 1 year deal. That is very very good news. And yes, I know Wilson is not a leadoff hitter, but neither is Corey Patterson, Neifi Perez, or Jose Macias.

[goonys evil twin]

I know Wilson is not a leadoff hitter, but neither is Corey Patterson, Neifi Perez, or Jose Macias.

 

Amen.

[rawaction]

I know Wilson is not a leadoff hitter, but neither is Corey Patterson, Neifi Perez, or Jose Macias.

 

Amen.

 

Yeah, good point. I'd love 180 Ks and a .320 OBP out of the leadoff spot. With about 25 solo HRs.