Possible Double Play combo for next season

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Can't go w/ Nomar and Walker again. Gotta have at least one above average fielder up the middle.

 

Who says? Id rather have two average defenders who are in the top 25% offensively for relatively cheap. Especially considering the offensive question marks we will undoubtedly once again be entering the season with in the OF.

 

Ever notice the pitching and defense aren't that good either. Get Giles to solve the offensive problem.

 

Brian Giles alone will not solve this offense's problems, especially when you take out Walker or Garciaparra's bat.

[CubfaninCA]

Can't go w/ Nomar and Walker again. Gotta have at least one above average fielder up the middle.

 

Who says? Id rather have two average defenders who are in the top 25% offensively for relatively cheap. Especially considering the offensive question marks we will undoubtedly once again be entering the season with in the OF.

 

Ever notice the pitching and defense aren't that good either. Get Giles to solve the offensive problem.

Getting Giles may not be enough, though. If the Cubs gamble with unproven bats in LF and SS and a question mark of a bat in CF, they could easily be out of it by June if those gambles don't pay off even with Giles in the line-up. 3 question marks in the same line-up is 2 too many, IMO.

 

If Nomar will come back for a base salary of 3-4 million with heavy incentives for plate appearances, the Cubs had better take it. Then all they would have to worry about is how to acquire 2 great offensive OFers...

 

:roll:

 

If Murton's as good as some say, a 1-6 of Furcal, Murton, Giles, Lee, ARam and Barrett's pretty solid. Put Patterson in cf and Cedeno @ 2b. People should be happy that the kids are finally getting a shot.

[CubsWin]

Can't go w/ Nomar and Walker again. Gotta have at least one above average fielder up the middle.

 

Who says? Id rather have two average defenders who are in the top 25% offensively for relatively cheap. Especially considering the offensive question marks we will undoubtedly once again be entering the season with in the OF.

 

Ever notice the pitching and defense aren't that good either. Get Giles to solve the offensive problem.

Getting Giles may not be enough, though. If the Cubs gamble with unproven bats in LF and SS and a question mark of a bat in CF, they could easily be out of it by June if those gambles don't pay off even with Giles in the line-up. 3 question marks in the same line-up is 2 too many, IMO.

 

If Nomar will come back for a base salary of 3-4 million with heavy incentives for plate appearances, the Cubs had better take it. Then all they would have to worry about is how to acquire 2 great offensive OFers...

 

:roll:

 

If Murton's as good as some say, a 1-6 of Furcal, Murton, Giles, Lee, ARam and Barrett's pretty solid. Put Patterson in cf and Cedeno @ 2b. People should be happy that the kids are finally getting a shot.

But thats the thing. Murton is still an "if". So is Cedeno, and so is Patterson. Is there a decent possibility that each of those "ifs" can perform well next season? Sure. But I would much rather have 1 question mark in the line-up, especially if the Cubs are going to have a solid chance at competing next season.

 

So the question remains, where do you want the 1 "if" to play? If Corey isn't traded and no other CFer is acquired, the Cubs will almost have no choice but to stick him in CF again, and there goes your 1 "if". That means signing Giles/Damon or trading for an all-star caliber OFer, re-signing Nomar or signing Furcal and at least having a decent back-up plan in case Murton falters is a must, as I see it.

 

I would feel a lot more comfortable with Walker manning 2B than sticking a rookie SS there out of position and counting on him to produce. Walk is good, cheap and a leader in the clubhouse, apparently. If I'm Hendry, I'm picking up his option unless I know I have a deal on the table that will net me a clearly better 2B. With Walker in the fold, I would go for Nomar at a lower base salary with PA incentives knowing that I have Cedeno there in case of an injury. The presence of Cedeno combined with a possible low base salary for Nomar trumps a high-salary, long-term deal for Furcal in my book.

 

The decent back-up plan in case Murton isn't as advertised could be Lawton.

[Peoriaman]

Stone suggest Furcal and Cedeno and ss/2nd.

[wastra]

Furcal's going ot get $8MM for his .340 OBP.

 

No thanks. O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

[frostwyrm]

Stone suggest Furcal and Cedeno and ss/2nd.

 

I usually agree with Stone but not this time. Cedeno and Walker are an excellent bargain at 2.85M. Furcal will comparatively be a terrible deal. Also, I don't like the idea of moving Cedeno away from the position where he is most valuable just to accommodate an overpaid Furcal.

[Larry Horse]

Can't go w/ Nomar and Walker again. Gotta have at least one above average fielder up the middle.

 

Who says? Id rather have two average defenders who are in the top 25% offensively for relatively cheap. Especially considering the offensive question marks we will undoubtedly once again be entering the season with in the OF.

 

Ever notice the pitching and defense aren't that good either. Get Giles to solve the offensive problem.

Getting Giles may not be enough, though. If the Cubs gamble with unproven bats in LF and SS and a question mark of a bat in CF, they could easily be out of it by June if those gambles don't pay off even with Giles in the line-up. 3 question marks in the same line-up is 2 too many, IMO.

 

If Nomar will come back for a base salary of 3-4 million with heavy incentives for plate appearances, the Cubs had better take it. Then all they would have to worry about is how to acquire 2 great offensive OFers...

 

:roll:

 

If Murton's as good as some say, a 1-6 of Furcal, Murton, Giles, Lee, ARam and Barrett's pretty solid. Put Patterson in cf and Cedeno @ 2b. People should be happy that the kids are finally getting a shot.

But thats the thing. Murton is still an "if". So is Cedeno, and so is Patterson. Is there a decent possibility that each of those "ifs" can perform well next season? Sure. But I would much rather have 1 question mark in the line-up, especially if the Cubs are going to have a solid chance at competing next season.

 

So the question remains, where do you want the 1 "if" to play? If Corey isn't traded and no other CFer is acquired, the Cubs will almost have no choice but to stick him in CF again, and there goes your 1 "if". That means signing Giles/Damon or trading for an all-star caliber OFer, re-signing Nomar or signing Furcal and at least having a decent back-up plan in case Murton falters is a must, as I see it.

 

I would feel a lot more comfortable with Walker manning 2B than sticking a rookie SS there out of position and counting on him to produce. Walk is good, cheap and a leader in the clubhouse, apparently. If I'm Hendry, I'm picking up his option unless I know I have a deal on the table that will net me a clearly better 2B. With Walker in the fold, I would go for Nomar at a lower base salary with PA incentives knowing that I have Cedeno there in case of an injury. The presence of Cedeno combined with a possible low base salary for Nomar trumps a high-salary, long-term deal for Furcal in my book.

 

The decent back-up plan in case Murton isn't as advertised could be Lawton.

 

CubsWin, isn't the biggest "if" in that whole scenario is "if" Nomar is healthy? I can't believe people actually want him back given the amount of games he has missed. I can't see the Cubs actually depending on Nomar to be a everyday player.

 

I'll take Furcal and Walker or Furcal and Cedeno.

[Warpticon]

It's not that big of a risk if you get him cheaply enough, though, and if you keep Cedeno as first option off the bench at SS/2B, you get the best of both worlds.

 

I like Fookie, but I don't want him for four years hwen Cedeno stands a decent chance of producing similarly within 2. And I don't want him for 8+ mil when there are similar, cheaper options around. Julio Lugo won't demand nearly as much money or contract length and is a very similar offensive player. I guess I wouldn't be heartbroken if the Cubs sign him, but considering where the offensive problems lie, it doesn't seem to be the wisest use of money.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Does anyone realize that if we give the starting SS job to Cedeno and he tanks, we're looking at another year of Neifi in the starters role?

 

Face it; we haven't seen enough of Ronny to tell if he can get it done at this level. Dubois got it done in AAA and stunk it up in major league ball. I realize they play different positions and are completely different types of players...just trying to illustrate that production at lower levels doesn't always translate to the next level.

 

We need a backup plan in case Cedeno gets the starting job out of ST and tanks. Neifi shouldn't be it. He is not starter quality...especially on a team with a $100M payroll.

[wastra]

Furcal just doesn't solve a lot of problems for us other than defense.

 

He is NOT a top-quality lead off hitter. A .340 OBP is not solid for lead-off, it's bad. So we're talking about paying $8MM for a guy who can't really hit lead-off even as well as 2-3 guys already on our team, or $8 MM for a good glove #8 hitter.

 

That is not a great use of funds when we have at least 4 other major holes to address this offseason PLUS a bench.

[jtownie]

I think our SS and 2B are contingent on what Hendry has planned for the OF. If he can sign Giles and make a trade for a big bat for LF then I have a firm belief Cedeno will be back playing SS. IF Walker isn't traded then I will believe that Hairston will be back as our everyday CF.

 

Also, if I could make it happen I would really like Jose Valentin to replace Perez or Macias. He can play the infield positions and is much better with the bat. But I wonder if he would take a bench role at a significantly reduced rate.

[hardcorecubfan]

can Cedeno play second, especially being yng he may adapt a bit more quickly to the position.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

can Cedeno play second, especially being yng he may adapt a bit more quickly to the position.

 

I don't think it's fair to ask a baseball player to change positions while he's trying to break into the big leagues.

[treebird]

ronny is just going to get benched whether he's playing second or short if dusty is still here, and he will be. we have to keep walker, and we have to get a new ss.

[AramisRamirez]

yikes. its time to let neifi perez walk. nomar garciaparra has to go, too. he just cant be relied upon in 2006. i would ink furcal to whatever albatross deal he commands. cedeno would be my backup and todd walker would start at 2B.

 

in the OF i would bring in brian giles for whatever albratross deal he commands also. murton can stay and either corey patterson or felix pie can hold down CF. the only way corey stays in the majors is by batting last. with his BA and OBP he has to hit last, nothing else.

 

SS furcal

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

OF giles

C barrett

OF murton

OF patterson

 

bench: cedeno, pie, blanco

 

SP1 prior

SP2 zambrano

SP3 wood

SP4

SP5 maddux

 

RP dempster

 

we need to fill in that SP4 splot, hopefully with a lefty. rusch and williams cant be depended on.

[CubfaninCA]

Furcal just doesn't solve a lot of problems for us other than defense.

 

He is NOT a top-quality lead off hitter. A .340 OBP is not solid for lead-off, it's bad. So we're talking about paying $8MM for a guy who can't really hit lead-off even as well as 2-3 guys already on our team, or $8 MM for a good glove #8 hitter.

 

That is not a great use of funds when we have at least 4 other major holes to address this offseason PLUS a bench.

 

Yet Walker w/ his .353 obp and lightning speed is great @ leadoff. Furcal's speed generates runs and distracts the opposing pitcher. The Cubs need some intangibles. They have to be the worse situational team in baseball.

[CubfaninCA]

If the Cubs can get Giles, and either trade for Manny or sign Burnett to a huge contract, then go cheap @ 2b & SS w/ Walker & Cedeno. If not spend some money on a guy will be around for quite some time, Furcal.

[cbbryan]

The more I watch of Cedeno, the more I like the kid. For some reason he reminds me of Jeter.............not a big guy, smooth fielder, scrappy hitter. I don't know what it is, I think of Jeter when I watch this kid.

 

I gotta say, he's growing on me........the more I watch.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I am more the confident that Murton and Cedeno can do a very nice job next yr for the Cubs, IF, and I stress IF, they allow the kids to play. Murton got a good enough bat to START right now, his defense is what's being questioned. Cedeno's glove allows him to START now, but his offense is a "BIG" if. But these kids would bring more to the Cubs, then what Furcal and or any OTHER big name players....and that is spunk. I don't like the idea of just "throwing" money at the Cubs problems, ie leadoff and at Rafael Furcal, when there is a solid enough leadoff option available in Ryan Freel, who "could be" available for a decent pitching prospect or two. Offer up Ryu/Welly and see if they would bite, and put Freel in CF---thus non-tender CPatt or trade him for something. I mean take a look at Freel's numbers over the past 3 yrs combine--http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6685&type=batting3 in particular look at the position he plays and the spot in the lineup portions of his 3 yr averages and what he would bring OFFENSIVELY. We'd keep Walker's bat, Cedeno's glove, and add Freel's obvious offensive talents. He would be our Brady Clark.

 

I rather give up two solid prospects for Freel, then OVERPAY for Furcal. Not to mention Freel would add abit of grittiness to this team that needs a persona.

 

Freel/Walker/Lee/Giles/ARam/Murton/Barrett/Cedeno would look very nice.

[wastra]

Furcal just doesn't solve a lot of problems for us other than defense.

 

He is NOT a top-quality lead off hitter. A .340 OBP is not solid for lead-off, it's bad. So we're talking about paying $8MM for a guy who can't really hit lead-off even as well as 2-3 guys already on our team, or $8 MM for a good glove #8 hitter.

 

That is not a great use of funds when we have at least 4 other major holes to address this offseason PLUS a bench.

 

Yet Walker w/ his .353 obp and lightning speed is great @ leadoff. Furcal's speed generates runs and distracts the opposing pitcher. The Cubs need some intangibles. They have to be the worse situational team in baseball.

 

 

Walker doesn't hit leadoff for us.

[thedaymen]

I think one of the many reasons for this bad Cubs' season is the defense up the middle is atrocious. Neifi and Walker are both below average defensively. And Nomar is a disaster in the field. Its tough going to Mets games with my fiance and seeing Reyes and Cairo every time then going home and watching "Adventures in Infielding" with the Cubs.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with starting an "unproven kid", even on a contending team. Robinson Cano? Howard on the Phillies? Reyes on the Mets? If they got the talent, play them.

 

I think with the Sammy money coming off the books, the Nomar money coming off the books, and the team's serious needs in the outfield, another starter and another arm in the bullpen (at least), fixing the infield defense shouldn't be a top priority, and it can be fixed with players we already have on the roster.

 

My solution: Cedeno at short, Hairston at second. They both have good range, don't kick the ball around a lot. Have above average speed (imagine that). Hairston isn't a great hitter, but he does work the count, move runners along and clog up the bases with walks. We don't know what Cedeno can do yet at the plate, but so far so good...even if the other team doesn't have a book on him (but of course they do...)

 

This leaves the Cubs money to sign or trade for an outfielder or two. I would like to see Giles in Left, Murton in right, and Mike Cameron keeping center warm for Pie; but that's just me.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think one of the many reasons for this bad Cubs' season is the defense up the middle is atrocious. Neifi and Walker are both below average defensively. And Nomar is a disaster in the field. Its tough going to Mets games with my fiance and seeing Reyes and Cairo every time then going home and watching "Adventures in Infielding" with the Cubs.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with starting an "unproven kid", even on a contending team. Robinson Cano? Howard on the Phillies? Reyes on the Mets? If they got the talent, play them.

 

I think with the Sammy money coming off the books, the Nomar money coming off the books, and the team's serious needs in the outfield, another starter and another arm in the bullpen (at least), fixing the infield defense shouldn't be a top priority, and it can be fixed with players we already have on the roster.

 

My solution: Cedeno at short, Hairston at second. They both have good range, don't kick the ball around a lot. Have above average speed (imagine that). Hairston isn't a great hitter, but he does work the count, move runners along and clog up the bases with walks. We don't know what Cedeno can do yet at the plate, but so far so good...even if the other team doesn't have a book on him (but of course they do...)

 

This leaves the Cubs money to sign or trade for an outfielder or two. I would like to see Giles in Left, Murton in right, and Mike Cameron keeping center warm for Pie; but that's just me.

 

2005 Defensive Rate at 2B

 

Hairston: 97

Walker: 97

[dalgreen]

I think one of the many reasons for this bad Cubs' season is the defense up the middle is atrocious. Neifi and Walker are both below average defensively. And Nomar is a disaster in the field. Its tough going to Mets games with my fiance and seeing Reyes and Cairo every time then going home and watching "Adventures in Infielding" with the Cubs.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with starting an "unproven kid", even on a contending team. Robinson Cano? Howard on the Phillies? Reyes on the Mets? If they got the talent, play them.

 

I think with the Sammy money coming off the books, the Nomar money coming off the books, and the team's serious needs in the outfield, another starter and another arm in the bullpen (at least), fixing the infield defense shouldn't be a top priority, and it can be fixed with players we already have on the roster.

 

My solution: Cedeno at short, Hairston at second. They both have good range, don't kick the ball around a lot. Have above average speed (imagine that). Hairston isn't a great hitter, but he does work the count, move runners along and clog up the bases with walks. We don't know what Cedeno can do yet at the plate, but so far so good...even if the other team doesn't have a book on him (but of course they do...)

 

This leaves the Cubs money to sign or trade for an outfielder or two. I would like to see Giles in Left, Murton in right, and Mike Cameron keeping center warm for Pie; but that's just me.

 

You can take chances on "kids" when you have stud-like players in the lineup as the Yankees do with Sheff, Jeter, Giambi and A-Rod, or the Mets with Wright, Floyd, Beltran and Cameron (pre-injury). After the way this season has gone, I hope the Cubs realize guys with histories of injuries need to be treated like you expect them to have injuries next year. We need another high OPS guy in the lineup in case Aramis Ramirez has groin or quad problems next season. That's why i'd like to see high OPS guys playing the corner outfield spots (unless you can find a high OPS guy who plays centerfield) next year. I think Murton makes for an ideal 4th outfielder next year.

[thedaymen]

2005 Defensive Rate at 2B

 

Hairston: 97

Walker: 97

 

Play Jerry at second for an entire season, or look at his numbers with the O's.

[wastra]

I think that if you can find 3 solid outfielders, you can afford to take some chances on the infield. You can afford to have, for instance, Cedeno as the primary infield backup or even a starter. If you wanted, you could even afford to give a one-year deal to Nomar as either SSor 2B for $4MM + big incentives.

 

If he goes down, Cedeno is the replacement anyway. If not, you've got one of the best offensive SS/2B in the NL. Either way, you know his backup will get lots of playing time, injury or no.

 

But it all hinges on doing a good job filling the outfield holes and the pitching holes FIRST.

 

there is only one Yankees organization that can have a $8MM all star at every spot. If we're spending $8 MM+ on a position player, he damn well should be a better hitter than Rafael Furcal.