Reminder to Cardinal Scrubs - YOU'RE SCRUBS

[vaball]

the walker reference is based on the fact that you seem to be looking for sympathy for all the injuries the cards have suffered when it was pretty obvious that larry walker was an injury risk...so was rolen for that matter. the cardinals made their own bad fortune (w/ regard to injuries) when they traded for/signed guys that had an injury history.

 

I wasn't looking for sympathy, just stating the fact that half our starting position players are on the DL. It doesn't bother me really. We will still more than likely win the division, even with our bench guys playing full time for a month or more. And Rolen, Sanders, Molina, and Walker, if he plays, will be fresh for the playoffs.

 

I would not call Rolen an injury risk. He often plays banged up with pain in his back or shin but he still plays well. The instances in which he has missed serious time on the DL have been mainly due to collisions, and in one case a slide into home. I don't think he can be called an injury risk.

 

Sanders' injury is the result of a collision with Edmonds. Molina from getting hit by a pitch. The only guy who is predicatably injured is Walker.

 

Missing Molina does hurt us. His defense is terrific. His arm is amazing. And after an awful April he had a terrfic May and June offensively and then only had 20 ABs in July before going on the DL. We are missing him offensively, not just defensively.

[Strife]

just b/c Molina's not great offensively doesn't mean we're not missing him offensively. As bad as he was, he .660-.700ish ops is 150-200 points higher than than the numbers Diaz or Mahoney will put up. That much OPS is a significant loss, whether its losing a .900 OPS for a .700 one or losing a .700 one for a .500. Plus Molina was getting better and had hit over .300 the last two months and is light years better than either of his replacements defensively.

[cubweiser03]

Carpenter is a stud. Im afraid we are going to have to get use to the 'new chris carpenter' for a couple more years.

[EastonBlues22]

Just for fun, the Cards have two regular position players starting in today's game against LA...Pujols and Grudz. Everyone else is a bench player or callup.

 

Nunez, Taguchi, Pujols, Gall, Grudz, Rodriguez, Luna, Diaz...

 

And they're still winning 4-2 in the top of the seventh. :lol:

 

 

Sure, I don't think this level of play will last forever from most of these guys, but I'd still like to say this. If the Cards' fill-ins are such perpetual over-achievers...maybe it's time to just accept the fact that it's not a streak of amazing "luck." It's quite possible that the front office and coaching staff are actually very good ones. Nobody ever seems to call what Atlanta does with their players luck...it's always accredited to their coaching staff and player development. I'm not saying I think the Cards' coaches and GM are THAT good, but I do think it's possible that they aren't being given the credit they do deserve for the work they do with retreads and marginal prospects. A lot of a marginal player's success is dependent upon how well what talents he does have fit with the role an organization is asking him to fill. I think Jocketty does a wonderful job of identifying players with attitudes and skill sets that fit in with what the Cards are trying to do...and I think the coaches do a wonderful job of developing those skills and making it clear what every player's job is.

 

Take Beltran for example...he's horribly mis-cast as a "marquee franchise player" and a #3 bat. Because of the expectations for him personally and the team in general, and because he's being asked to do things that really don't mesh with his best attributes...I think it's a stretch at all to say that his performance is suffering as a result. On the right team, in the right role, I think he'd be thriving.

[TruffleShuffle]

Sure, I don't think this level of play will last forever from most of these guys, but I'd still like to say this. If the Cards' fill-ins are such perpetual over-achievers...maybe it's time to just accept the fact that it's not a streak of amazing "luck." It's quite possible that the front office and coaching staff are actually very good ones. Nobody ever seems to call what Atlanta does with their players luck...it's always accredited to their coaching staff and player development. I'm not saying I think the Cards' coaches and GM are THAT good, but I do think it's possible that they aren't being given the credit they do deserve for the work they do with retreads and marginal prospects. A lot of a marginal player's success is dependent upon how well what talents he does have fit with the role an organization is asking him to fill. I think Jocketty does a wonderful job of identifying players with attitudes and skill sets that fit in with what the Cards are trying to do...and I think the coaches do a wonderful job of developing those skills and making it clear what every player's job is.

 

Yeah but here's the problem with that. Nunez is playing just as much as he did in Pittsburgh, basically as a part-timer and a pinch hitter, and he's all of a sudden gone from a 62 OPS+ to above average. He's being asked to do the same thing he was asked to do in Pittsburgh and is now doing it much better. Tony Womack was asked to be an everyday second baseman last year at the age of 34... did he all of a sudden figure out how to be a good everyday middle infielder at the age of 34? Did the Cardinals coaches find something with him that 10 previous years of coaching could not?

 

Same thing with Carpenter and Tavarez. Carpenter was asked to start every 5 days, just like he was in Toronto, except now he's better at it. Tavarez has been a setup man most of his career. Most of these guys are doing the same thing they've been doing most of their careers, but they're just doing it better. In the case of Tavarez, maybe he didn't start cheating until last year, and that was the improvement. Otherwise, who knows? Maybe it's something in the water, or maybe Mark McGwire left some special pills in the clubhouse when he retired. :lol:

[Strife]

Otherwise, who knows? Maybe it's something in the water, or maybe Mark McGwire left some special pills in the clubhouse when he retired. :lol:

 

If that's the case then the Cubs real mistake was running Sammy off like they did. If he hadn't been so pissed when he left, maybe he'd have left his special pills too.

 

I don't really get what the point of this thread is...you're saying the Cardinals are lucky I take it? Lucky year-in and year-out? You know what they say about consistent luck...

[EastonBlues22]

Sure, I don't think this level of play will last forever from most of these guys, but I'd still like to say this. If the Cards' fill-ins are such perpetual over-achievers...maybe it's time to just accept the fact that it's not a streak of amazing "luck." It's quite possible that the front office and coaching staff are actually very good ones. Nobody ever seems to call what Atlanta does with their players luck...it's always accredited to their coaching staff and player development. I'm not saying I think the Cards' coaches and GM are THAT good, but I do think it's possible that they aren't being given the credit they do deserve for the work they do with retreads and marginal prospects. A lot of a marginal player's success is dependent upon how well what talents he does have fit with the role an organization is asking him to fill. I think Jocketty does a wonderful job of identifying players with attitudes and skill sets that fit in with what the Cards are trying to do...and I think the coaches do a wonderful job of developing those skills and making it clear what every player's job is.

 

Yeah but here's the problem with that. Nunez is playing just as much as he did in Pittsburgh, basically as a part-timer and a pinch hitter, and he's all of a sudden gone from a 62 OPS+ to above average. He's being asked to do the same thing he was asked to do in Pittsburgh and is now doing it much better. Tony Womack was asked to be an everyday second baseman last year at the age of 34... did he all of a sudden figure out how to be a good everyday middle infielder at the age of 34? Did the Cardinals coaches find something with him that 10 previous years of coaching could not?

 

Same thing with Carpenter and Tavarez. Carpenter was asked to start every 5 days, just like he was in Toronto, except now he's better at it. Tavarez has been a setup man most of his career. Most of these guys are doing the same thing they've been doing most of their careers, but they're just doing it better. In the case of Tavarez, maybe he didn't start cheating until last year, and that was the improvement. Otherwise, who knows? Maybe it's something in the water, or maybe Mark McGwire left some special pills in the clubhouse when he retired. :lol:

That's a very simplistic way of looking at things. The Cards have all five of their starters in the top 31 in the MLB in GB/FB ratio. Do you think that's a coincidence? If you do, check out the fact that Marquis, Carpenter, Suppan, and even Mulder have all seen their GB/FB ratios increase during their tenures with the Cards over what they were previously with other teams. The Cards like their starting pitchers to keep the ball down in the zone and churn out ground balls...this keeps the ball in the park, pitch counts down, and plays to what has been the traditional Cardinal's strength of defense. Small things like that have the potential to add up to big differences in personal and team performance.

 

I'm not saying every improvement is due to something like that, but surely some can be attributed to things like that.

[Sammy Who]

When Ray "is a" King was w/ the Cubs he had a king-sized ERA. Now he's a stud in their pen. I don't get it. I also don't get it, that whenever a pitcher who sucked when he was on the Cubs mows them down when they face the Cubs w/ their new team. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

[vaball]

When Ray "is a" King was w/ the Cubs he had a king-sized ERA. Now he's a stud in their pen. I don't get it. I also don't get it, that whenever a pitcher who sucked when he was on the Cubs mows them down when they face the Cubs w/ their new team. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

 

Ray King is no stud this year. His ERA is only 2.22 but he hasn't been as good as that number.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

When Ray "is a" King was w/ the Cubs he had a king-sized ERA. Now he's a stud in their pen. I don't get it. I also don't get it, that whenever a pitcher who sucked when he was on the Cubs mows them down when they face the Cubs w/ their new team. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

 

Ray King is no stud this year. His ERA is only 2.22 but he hasn't been as good as that number.

 

I'd blame LaRussa for that. King's a solid LOOGY, yet he's faced almost as many RH(55) as LH(64). This actually surprises me, given LaRussa's propensity to use as many pitchers as necessary to get the "right matchup". Or maybe he's just like Dusty in that he only does it when facing each other.

[vaball]

I'd blame LaRussa for that. King's a solid LOOGY, yet he's faced almost as many RH(55) as LH(64). This actually surprises me, given LaRussa's propensity to use as many pitchers as necessary to get the "right matchup". Or maybe he's just like Dusty in that he only does it when facing each other.

 

Tony's been less OCD this season with the matchups. Without looking up numbers on this, I think it likely that King has faced so many righties because LaRussa has brought him in against a leftie with two outs, who he then fails to retire, and Tony just leaves him in against the rightie who comes up.

 

Kings WHIP is a lackluster 1.41.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

That's strange, considering how much better he's been against LH. His WHIP against LH: 1.25. Against RH: 1.74

[Criminal5]

King had an awful, awful May: 7.94 ERA, 12 hits and 6 walks in all of 5.2 innings.

 

Since then, he's allowed 4ER, 12 hits and 3 walks in 15.2 innings (for a sub-1 WHIP and a 2.29 ERA), and on the season, he's only allowed 8 of 37 inherited runners to score (three of those today).

[ManCrushOnNomar]

By the way, don't EVER call John Rodriguez "J-Rod." It only furthers the idea that he deserves a nickname. He gave it to himself to try to make a name for himself in the big leagues where his talents failed to for many years.

 

Anyone who writes his self-given nickname on his shoes is not worth the breath it takes to say his name.

[genghiskhan]

Is anyone in St. Louis afraid of how old the team is getting?

 

Yes. The outfield, anyway. Bullpen doesn't concern me as much b/c bullpen pitchers are fungible. But the aging outfield is and has been a concern. Would love to see the Cardinals get a young outfielder. Are the Cubs tired of Corey Patterson yet? :wink:

 

Addressing other topics in this thread--EastonBlues is correct. After a while you have to assume it isn't a coincidence. I believe that players like Abraham Nunez and David Eckstein pick up their game in St. Louis b/c the Cardinals are a very well-run outfit with one of the best coaching staffs around. It's rather nice, actually.

 

And as far as Molina goes, his stats are skewed by his horrific start. Dude was 1 for his first 29 and finished April with a .162 average and .197 OBP. But the Cards stuck with him (there's that good coaching again) and he responded with OPS of .777 in May and .788 in June. So he isn't Johnny Bench or anything but he was holding his own with the bat. Plus, he is absolutely fantastic defensively. I don't know what the Cardinal record is for pickoffs by a catcher but Molina has done it more often than I've seen any other catcher do it. And he excels at throwing basestealers out. His replacements, Diaz and Mahoney, range from mediocre offensively and defensively (Diaz) to horrible offensively and good defensively (Mahoney). Mahoney has been sacrificing ahead of the pitcher lately, and not just for Jason Marquis. So it will be a lift to the team when Molina comes back.

Edited August 3, 2005 by genghiskhan

[Brian]

Are the Cubs tired of Corey Patterson yet? :wink:

 

You can have him for Pujols (Albert, not his nephew).

 

I might consider Carp + a mid level prospect.

[SAMMYWHO]

Back to this thread talking about DLee's year vs the cards bench players. Everyone knows the main reason MVLee is having the year he is having. They made his feet very very quiet this off-season and he also made adjustments to the inside pitch. Now that's why our guy is having a great year. Now, besides the "great Cardinal coaching" what's the reasons for your guys. (Nunez, Rodriguez)

[PujolsPower]

Here is the reason JRod improved:

 

Cards Insider: Long's approach takes J-Rod a long way

By Derrick Goold

Of the Post-Dispatch

07/31/2005

 

Always capable of power in batting practice, John Rodriguez (right) has taken a more disciplined approach that has helped him go deep in games as well.

 

 

 

Deconstructing the untamed swing that marooned John Rodriguez in the minors meant one rule during batting practice:

 

No home runs.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/DB718DAA2EDEC3CE8625704E001C78D7?OpenDocument

[genghiskhan]

Too bad Rodriguez can't count to three. He has gotten doubled off TWICE in recent days on infield popups b/c he forgot that there was only one out.

[vaball]

Gooch with a three run bomb tonight.

[OldHappyCubFan]

As much as I hate the Cards, Cub fans simply can't dog them.

 

They know fundamentals, pitching, and their offense is consistent. They're a powerhouse team, and unless the Cubs change something, I see the Cards winning the NL Central for the next two years.

 

I say that cuz the Cubs really are the only team to rival them, especially after Cleman's/Biggio are gone, and the Cubs pitching is getting worse, not better. Its a two man pony with Prior/Z.

[theOrange]

I say that cuz the Cubs really are the only team to rival them, especially after Cleman's/Biggio are gone, and the Cubs pitching is getting worse, not better. Its a two man pony with Prior/Z.

 

OldHappyCubFan meet the Brewers, Brewers meet OldHappyCubFan.

 

I'm no Brewer fan but i'm sorry to say that after the next couple years when the Cards are all old foggies the Brewers will be the team to beat.

 

They remind me of the Braves of 1990. Great young pitching staff - Sheets, Cupuano, Santos - with a good mix of young players and seasoned veterans - Weeks, Overbay, Lee. Not to mention what I think is the best management - Melvin, Yost, Maddux. I wouldn't be suprised to see them win the Wild Card next year.

 

The Pirates and Reds will still continue sucking for a while though! LOL

[1908]

They remind me of the Braves of 1990

Superstation, smooperstation, right?

[theOrange]

They remind me of the Braves of 1990

Superstation, smooperstation, right?

 

Huh?

[wolf stansson]

They remind me of the Braves of 1990

Superstation, smooperstation, right?

 

Huh?

Where are the Brewers going to get the revenue to keep up with higher payroll teams like STL, Cubs, or Houston? The Braves had the benefit of a huge, nationwide TV deal. Not so with the Brew-Crew.