Reminder to Cardinal Scrubs - YOU'RE SCRUBS

[TruffleShuffle]

Just wanted to take the time to remind some Cardinals of something:

 

Abraham Nunez - you're a mediocre at best bum with a career line of .238/.306/.316. You're not a guy who is supposed to be putting up a line of .316/.375/.435 or whatever you'll be at after tonight. Try to understand that you suck, you've sucked every year of your career and there's no logical reason that you should have stopped sucking after proving your suckitude over 6+ major league seasons.

 

J-Rod: You are a career minor leaguer, not even a prospect really. What the hell is up with the 1.100 OPS since you got called up!?!?!?

 

David Eckstein - your career high in walks is 45 (in 152 games)... so how do you have 41 in 97 games now? At least the good news is that you seem to have forgotten how to draw walks over the past 10 games.

 

Chris Carpenter - Career ERA+ of 102. Career best of 116. All of a sudden last year your ERA+ is 121 the first year off of surgery, and now you're contending for a Cy Young? Where the hell did that come from?

 

Al Reyes - Journeyman and guy who has spent your career between AAA and the majors, with a career ERA of 3.92 and a remarkable lack of major league quality pitching up through age 32. All of a sudden you turn into a big part of a solid bullpen, with an ERA under 3 and very good peripheral numbers (39 IP, 25 H, 14 BB, 42 K)

 

Julian Tavarez - Career ERA of 4.32. Even in years when you pitched completely out of the bullpen, you routinely put up ERAs in the upper threes and sometimes worse. The year before coming to St. Louis your ERA was 3.66. All of a sudden at age 31 you figure it all out?!?!? ERA of 2.38 last year and 2.80 this year? Why?

 

Ray King and Randy Flores, I won't even get started on you losers. Jim Edmonds, you've been good for too many years, but I'd like to know where the increased durability, patience and power came from upon arriving in St. Louis. Is there a magical fountain of "play out your butt" somewhere near the Arch? If so, Jose Macias (you know, the guy with superior career numbers to Abraham Nunez before this season) would like to find it, as would the rest of the Cubs. If not, hopefully this post will serve as a reminder to you guys to start playing like the players you really are.

[vaball]

Forward this to Derrek Lee please.

 

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

[ltb]

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

 

boo hoo.

i feel so sorry for the cardinals.

[imb]

Is anyone in St. Louis afraid of how old the team is getting?

 

Edmonds-Still awesome, but it looks like he's tired, and years of busting his ass in centerfield seem to be taking their toll.

Walker-Old, always hurt.

Sanders-Old, good numbers, but when the decline hits, it should hit hard.

Rolen-Not old, but lots of nagging injuries, including the dreaded "back" injury.

 

Even the pen is old. Reyes/King/Tavarez/Izzy.

 

It just seems to me that a lot of guys are getting old, and theyre all getting old at the same time.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

All we have to do is wait for them to all retire and then pounce. We've waited a long time already, what's another 5-6 years.

[Brian]

looks like they got the message, sound like they really messed up on Friday. Morris watched Izturis run home and threw to first, didn't cover first, messed up a squeeze, and I think this speaks for it self.....

 

Kent then doubled over Jim Edmonds' head for another run as the center fielder attempted a diving catch on a ball that was way out of his reach.

 

 

but Nunez ignored you and went 3/4

[burnt out cubbie fan]

He pulled an Edmonds.

[XZero771679666304]

Forward this to Derrek Lee please.

 

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

 

Derrek has played far better than his norms this year. But his norms were far better than the norms of the players mentioned in Truffles' post. On the playing-over-their-heads scale, Lee is pretty far down from those guys. And while we may never see Derrek hit like this again, but you will almost certainly never see Rolen hit anything like did last year again, regardless of health.

 

I guess to be fair you could say Carpenter showed flashes of brilliance in Toronto, but comparing any of the other guys on that list to Lee is rather silly.

[TruffleShuffle]

Forward this to Derrek Lee please.

 

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

 

Derrek has played far better than his norms this year. But his norms were far better than the norms of the players mentioned in Truffles' post. On the playing-over-their-heads scale, Lee is pretty far down from those guys. And while we may never see Derrek hit like this again, but you will almost certainly never see Rolen hit anything like did last year again, regardless of health.

 

I guess to be fair you could say Carpenter showed flashes of brilliance in Toronto, but comparing any of the other guys on that list to Lee is rather silly.

 

Well I agree with him, Derrek Lee is playing way over his head. But really, who else on the team is playing out their butt? ARam has better than career average numbers, but considering he put up nearly a .900 OPS at age 23, it's not all that surprising that he's as good as he is now. At least he's at the point in his career where he's supposed to be steadily improving (only 27, after all).

 

I don't think there's anyone else. Neifi? He came back to earth. Walker, Barrett, and Hairston are all doing as well as expected. Patterson was as disappointing as Lee was surprising, and Hollandsworth is having one of the worst years of his career. Murton is going nuts and won't keep this up, but at least he's a legitimate prospect unlike that J-Rod clown.

 

Pitching: Prior and Zambrano are actually a little worse than expected. Wood is way worse. Remlinger and Maddux have done what old guys on the Cards seem to not do - get worse. The Cubs don't have any journeymen relievers with ERAs under 3 because, well, the Cubs don't have any relievers with ERAs under 3. Or pitchers with ERAs under 3 for that matter.

[XZero771679666304]

Forward this to Derrek Lee please.

 

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

 

Derrek has played far better than his norms this year. But his norms were far better than the norms of the players mentioned in Truffles' post. On the playing-over-their-heads scale, Lee is pretty far down from those guys. And while we may never see Derrek hit like this again, but you will almost certainly never see Rolen hit anything like did last year again, regardless of health.

 

I guess to be fair you could say Carpenter showed flashes of brilliance in Toronto, but comparing any of the other guys on that list to Lee is rather silly.

 

Well I agree with him, Derrek Lee is playing way over his head. But really, who else on the team is playing out their butt? ARam has better than career average numbers, but considering he put up nearly a .900 OPS at age 23, it's not all that surprising that he's as good as he is now. At least he's at the point in his career where he's supposed to be steadily improving (only 27, after all).

 

I don't think there's anyone else. Neifi? He came back to earth. Walker, Barrett, and Hairston are all doing as well as expected. Patterson was as disappointing as Lee was surprising, and Hollandsworth is having one of the worst years of his career. Murton is going nuts and won't keep this up, but at least he's a legitimate prospect unlike that J-Rod clown.

 

Pitching: Prior and Zambrano are actually a little worse than expected. Wood is way worse. Remlinger and Maddux have done what old guys on the Cards seem to not do - get worse. The Cubs don't have any journeymen relievers with ERAs under 3 because, well, the Cubs don't have any relievers with ERAs under 3. Or pitchers with ERAs under 3 for that matter.

 

Yeah, Lee is playing over his head. The point I was trying to make was that least Lee had star ability. These scrubs on the Cards who are tearing it up are career filler material or worse who suddenly explode for inexplicable reasons.

 

And whil Lee is playing over his head, he is no more so than Rolen in the first half of last year.

[indifferent]

Can you explain to me how Rolen's numbers last year were more of a stretch from his career numbers than Lee's are this year? That isn't even close to a true statement.

 

Rolen

 

Career

.283 .375 .514

 

2004 (hos huge fluke year)

.314 .408 .598

 

2005

.234 .322 .382

 

Lee

 

Career

.275 .362 .496

 

2005

.363 .441 .707

 

And you're saying that Lee had way more "star" potential than Rolen?

 

While you're looking at the good performances of our role players, you can't responsibly ignore the effect of Rolen's horrible numbers this year and Jimmy's subpar year (by his standards).

 

Edmonds

Career

.292 .384 .542

 

2005

.263 .384 .520 (18 HR so far down from 42 last year)

 

Our role players are doing what Neifi did early this year, excelling for a short period of time. If left in a regular role, they will be exposed.

[XZero771679666304]

Can you explain to me how Rolen's numbers last year were more of a stretch from his career numbers than Lee's are this year? That isn't even close to a true statement.

 

Rolen

 

Career

.283 .375 .514

 

2004 (hos huge fluke year)

.314 .408 .598

 

2005

.234 .322 .382

 

Lee

 

Career

.275 .362 .496

 

2005

.363 .441 .707

 

And you're saying that Lee had way more "star" potential than Rolen?

 

While you're looking at the good performances of our role players, you can't responsibly ignore the effect of Rolen's horrible numbers this year and Jimmy's subpar year (by his standards).

 

Edmonds

Career

.292 .384 .542

 

2005

.263 .384 .520 (18 HR so far down from 42 last year)

 

Our role players are doing what Neifi did early this year, excelling for a short period of time. If left in a regular role, they will be exposed.

 

I was referring more to Rolen's first half of 2004:

 

.339/.415/.599 18 HR 80 RBI

 

Not as far over his career numbers as Lee, but a pretty big stretch. Also, Lee spent most of his career playing in an extreme pitchers park, whereas Rolen has played in neutral or hitter friendly parks. Lee is nearly as good a first baseman as Rolen is a third baseman, and Lee is bigger, stronger, and faster. So yes, I think Lee has always had more star potential, at least offensively.

 

 

And Neifi did play over his head, but you guys have a slew of guys playing over their heads.

[indifferent]

Well, I guess Rolen's numbers this year more than make up for his number's last year.

[TruffleShuffle]

While you're looking at the good performances of our role players, you can't responsibly ignore the effect of Rolen's horrible numbers this year and Jimmy's subpar year (by his standards).

 

Edmonds

Career

.292 .384 .542

 

2005

.263 .384 .520 (18 HR so far down from 42 last year)

 

Our role players are doing what Neifi did early this year, excelling for a short period of time. If left in a regular role, they will be exposed.

 

OK, so there's one guy who's having a really bad year and one guy who's having a slightly below average year. What about all the scrubs I listed above who are doing way better than their career averages? Edmonds is doing worse than his career average, but he's not that far off what he would've been expected to do when he signed his current contract - about a .900 OPS, 30 HR and injury prone, sounds the Jim Edmonds we saw in Anaheim.

 

As for excelling over a short period of time, Abraham Nunez has 250 plate appearances and is on track for a career high. I'd say guys who pitch regularly like Carpenter, Reyes, King and Tavarez are hardly guys excelling over a short period of time, too.

[indifferent]

While you're looking at the good performances of our role players, you can't responsibly ignore the effect of Rolen's horrible numbers this year and Jimmy's subpar year (by his standards).

 

Edmonds

Career

.292 .384 .542

 

2005

.263 .384 .520 (18 HR so far down from 42 last year)

 

Our role players are doing what Neifi did early this year, excelling for a short period of time. If left in a regular role, they will be exposed.

 

OK, so there's one guy who's having a really bad year and one guy who's having a slightly below average year. What about all the scrubs I listed above who are doing way better than their career averages? Edmonds is doing worse than his career average, but he's not that far off what he would've been expected to do when he signed his current contract - about a .900 OPS, 30 HR and injury prone, sounds the Jim Edmonds we saw in Anaheim.

 

As for excelling over a short period of time, Abraham Nunez has 250 plate appearances and is on track for a career high. I'd say guys who pitch regularly like Carpenter, Reyes, King and Tavarez are hardly guys excelling over a short period of time, too.

 

I originally responded to the post because of the xzero's comments on how Rolen's year was such a fluke and Lee's wasn't that far off or at least could be expected.

 

Your best example is Nunez and he's a guy I'm so excited about. He has excelled in so many ways to help this season, I can go on and on.

 

Tavarez and King have both been worse than last year. JRod is far too small of a sample size.

 

The Cubs have several guys they can point to as exceeding career norms as well. Rusch comes to mind, Lee, and Ramirez (although I know, he's coming into his prime and Edmonds should've have fallen off the map even after last year).

 

We haven't even discussed Walker. I know, he hasn't played a full season in forever. But he's batting .270 when he has played. He hasn't done that since 1990.

[XZero771679666304]

While you're looking at the good performances of our role players, you can't responsibly ignore the effect of Rolen's horrible numbers this year and Jimmy's subpar year (by his standards).

 

Edmonds

Career

.292 .384 .542

 

2005

.263 .384 .520 (18 HR so far down from 42 last year)

 

Our role players are doing what Neifi did early this year, excelling for a short period of time. If left in a regular role, they will be exposed.

 

OK, so there's one guy who's having a really bad year and one guy who's having a slightly below average year. What about all the scrubs I listed above who are doing way better than their career averages? Edmonds is doing worse than his career average, but he's not that far off what he would've been expected to do when he signed his current contract - about a .900 OPS, 30 HR and injury prone, sounds the Jim Edmonds we saw in Anaheim.

 

As for excelling over a short period of time, Abraham Nunez has 250 plate appearances and is on track for a career high. I'd say guys who pitch regularly like Carpenter, Reyes, King and Tavarez are hardly guys excelling over a short period of time, too.

 

I originally responded to the post because of the xzero's comments on how Rolen's year was such a fluke and Lee's wasn't that far off or at least could be expected.

 

Your best example is Nunez and he's a guy I'm so excited about. He has excelled in so many ways to help this season, I can go on and on.

 

Tavarez and King have both been worse than last year. JRod is far too small of a sample size.

 

The Cubs have several guys they can point to as exceeding career norms as well. Rusch comes to mind, Lee, and Ramirez (although I know, he's coming into his prime and Edmonds should've have fallen off the map even after last year).

 

We haven't even discussed Walker. I know, he hasn't played a full season in forever. But he's batting .270 when he has played. He hasn't done that since 1990.

 

I didn't say that Lee's year could be expected and Rolen's was a fluke. I said thar Rolens was no less of a fluke than Lee's, and vice versa. I also qualified the statements by saying fisrt halves, since this year isn't nearly over yet. I never denied Lee was playing over his head. There is a big difference between what I said, and what you said I did.

 

Now when compared with Nunez, John Rodriguez, and Carpenter, Lee doesn't seem as flukish.

[indifferent]

But look at the numbers, Rolen's fluke year was not even close to Lee's fluke year. But I will give you Rolen's number this year are flukier than both of them. And if you're talking 1st half numbers only, that makes Lee's even flukier.

[TruffleShuffle]

Your best example is Nunez and he's a guy I'm so excited about. He has excelled in so many ways to help this season, I can go on and on.

 

Well enjoy it now... considering his horrendous 62 OPS+ coming into this year, it's a strong bet that it ain't gonna last.

 

Tavarez and King have both been worse than last year. JRod is far too small of a sample size.

 

Tavarez and King are still outperforming their career numbers by a fair amount... especially Tavarez. JRod does what most Cardinal call-ups seem to do, play out their butt for as long as they're needed and then fade back into obscurity (a la Bo Hart).

 

The Cubs have several guys they can point to as exceeding career norms as well. Rusch comes to mind, Lee, and Ramirez (although I know, he's coming into his prime and Edmonds should've have fallen off the map even after last year).

 

Ramirez I still don't agree with given his career path... this is not far from where a guy below 30 with his career path should be expected to be. Rusch and Lee I'll give you, but aside from that... outside of those two and Murton nobody is doing more than expected.

 

We haven't even discussed Walker. I know, he hasn't played a full season in forever. But he's batting .270 when he has played. He hasn't done that since 1990.

 

And Maddux hasn't had an ERA this bad since 1987. See Remlinger as well. Just because most Cardinals magically get better on the wrong side of 30 doesn't mean that they can all escape the effects of Father Time.

[indifferent]

Your best example is Nunez and he's a guy I'm so excited about. He has excelled in so many ways to help this season, I can go on and on.

 

Well enjoy it now... considering his horrendous 62 OPS+ coming into this year, it's a strong bet that it ain't gonna last.

 

Tavarez and King have both been worse than last year. JRod is far too small of a sample size.

 

Tavarez and King are still outperforming their career numbers by a fair amount... especially Tavarez. JRod does what most Cardinal call-ups seem to do, play out their butt for as long as they're needed and then fade back into obscurity (a la Bo Hart).

 

The Cubs have several guys they can point to as exceeding career norms as well. Rusch comes to mind, Lee, and Ramirez (although I know, he's coming into his prime and Edmonds should've have fallen off the map even after last year).

 

Ramirez I still don't agree with given his career path... this is not far from where a guy below 30 with his career path should be expected to be. Rusch and Lee I'll give you, but aside from that... outside of those two and Murton nobody is doing more than expected.

 

We haven't even discussed Walker. I know, he hasn't played a full season in forever. But he's batting .270 when he has played. He hasn't done that since 1990.

 

And Maddux hasn't had an ERA this bad since 1987. See Remlinger as well. Just because most Cardinals magically get better on the wrong side of 30 doesn't mean that they can all escape the effects of Father Time.

 

Can't argue with anything you've said. And I was reluctant to include Ramirez in that group for the reasons you stated (and the fact that he got off to a slow start). I was tempted to include Murton in that group, but as you've mentioned Murton is a bonafide prospect while Rodriguez is a flip of the coin minor league journeyman.

 

I'm holding out hope for Nunez, he's done this all year. Some players are better suited for everyday play. And if he starts to decline, I hope it's close to the time that some of our other regulars can come back.

[Criminal5]

Also, Lee spent most of his career playing in an extreme pitchers park, whereas Rolen has played in neutral or hitter friendly parks. Lee is nearly as good a first baseman as Rolen is a third baseman, and Lee is bigger, stronger, and faster. So yes, I think Lee has always had more star potential, at least offensively.

 

FWIW, here are the OPS+ numbers (park adjusted) for both Rolen and Lee over the past, ohh, five years:

 

Rolen / Lee
 126 / 122
 127 / 113
 132 / 131
 139 / 135
 161 / 114

 

Rolen, while not the hitter we saw last year, had been improving steadily for some years, while Lee put up better numbers in that huge Miami park than he did last year in a much more hitter-friendly park.

[abuck1220]

Forward this to Derrek Lee please.

 

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

 

yeah, derrek lee's breakout is real similar to abraham nunez's. they're practically the same player...always have been.

 

and who would have guessed that walker would be injury-riddled when the cards traded for him? he's a young, spry guy who's always been a picture of health. mind-boggling.

[vaball]

Forward this to Derrek Lee please.

 

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

 

yeah, derrek lee's breakout is real similar to abraham nunez's. they're practically the same player...always have been.

 

and who would have guessed that walker would be injury-riddled when the cards traded for him? he's a young, spry guy who's always been a picture of health. mind-boggling.

 

People really see what they want to don't they? I said neither one of those things. I know very well that Nunez is a bench player who is playing over his head at the moment. I never said he wasn't. All I said was that I'm glad he is because we need him right now. The same goes for all our bench guys.

 

I don't even know where that Larry Walker reference comes from.

 

Derrek Lee is a good player, a solid hitter with great defense, who is putting up out of this world numbers this year. This isn't even a career year. It is beyond that. I don't know what to call it.

[abuck1220]

the walker reference is based on the fact that you seem to be looking for sympathy for all the injuries the cards have suffered when it was pretty obvious that larry walker was an injury risk...so was rolen for that matter. the cardinals made their own bad fortune (w/ regard to injuries) when they traded for/signed guys that had an injury history.

 

and, while i haven't heard it from you, enough with people crying about losing molina. i think it was jon miller who said how rough things have been for the cards since they lost their 'stud' catcher yadier molina. just because he plays for the cardinals, doesn't mean he's a stud. he's got a sub-.300 obp for crying out loud.

 

also, it's gonna be tough getting too much sympathy when you have two arms fresh off surgery combining for nearly 30 wins.

[XZero771679666304]

Forward this to Derrek Lee please.

 

With half our team on the DL, we're gonna need these filler guys to play out of their butts.

 

yeah, derrek lee's breakout is real similar to abraham nunez's. they're practically the same player...always have been.

 

and who would have guessed that walker would be injury-riddled when the cards traded for him? he's a young, spry guy who's always been a picture of health. mind-boggling.

 

People really see what they want to don't they? I said neither one of those things. I know very well that Nunez is a bench player who is playing over his head at the moment. I never said he wasn't. All I said was that I'm glad he is because we need him right now. The same goes for all our bench guys.

 

I don't even know where that Larry Walker reference comes from.

 

Derrek Lee is a good player, a solid hitter with great defense, who is putting up out of this world numbers this year. This isn't even a career year. It is beyond that. I don't know what to call it.

 

Yeah, Lee is having a ridiculous year. But don't be surprised if he is a .310/.400/.550 guy for the next few years.

 

And I can't recall if it was you specifically, but many Cards fans have coming here insinuating that you guys have it as bad as us injury-wise. THe fact of the matter is that if the Cardinals had the same injuries at the same time of the year as the Cubs, they would most definitely not be in first place.

 

Walker, Carpenter, Rolen, Sanders and Izzy are all guys who have been fragile during their career, and no one should cry if they get injured. In fact, you guys are very fortunate they have not been injured more than they have.

 

Now you could say the same for Wood and Nomar, and I won't argue that. Prior, however has really only had one legitimate injury, and the others have been injuries that could have felled anyone (collision, line drive).

 

But even when you guys get a rash of injuries, you already have a big lead to cushion the blow. If these injuries had occurred in April, we'd probably be seeing a close three team race right now. And Molina was essentially on offensive non-entity, and while Diaz isn't his equal defensively, he's not bad either. Molina's is not an impact injury.

[fulldeck]

and, while i haven't heard it from you, enough with people crying about losing molina. i think it was jon miller who said how rough things have been for the cards since they lost their 'stud' catcher yadier molina. just because he plays for the cardinals, doesn't mean he's a stud. he's got a sub-.300 obp for crying out loud.

 

Molina isn't there for his hitting although he has had good stretches with the bat this season before getting hurt. Any time the Cards start relying on their catcher for offense they are in trouble. The Cards main concern for the catching core is defense. It has been that way for a long time and it probably wont change anytime soon.