The 2nd coming of JOBO?

[Backtobanks]

Is there anyone else who watches Dempster and wonders how he escapes with a save. I remember thinking that JOBO used to do it with smoke and mirrors and now I'm seeing the same thing with Dempster. Don't get me wrong, I think we ought to ride this horse (Dempster) as far as we can, but I wonder wether he can continue this success (luck?) for next year. It would be nice to see a closer like Bruce Suter or Lee Smith come in and totally shut down an opponent without putting men on with walks and hits and then ending the game on a screaming line drive or a long fly out. I guess what I'm saying is that the Cubs go into spring training with a plan B (Van Buren, Wagner, etc.) for a closer.

[DomingoRamos]

Ryan is definitely not your shut down dominant closer, ala Rivera. However, unlike Jobo, Dempster has illustrated some sort of pitching success in different roles with different teams. He's always had pretty decent stuff, it was more about staying healthy and putting it together for him. Jobo was a career minor leaguer who of all a sudden had a couple great years. Its a new role for Ryan, so I'd say wait and see how he grows into it further.

[SouthSideRyan]

Lee Smith would've loved to have a WHIP aroudn where Jobo's was in '03. Or Dempster as a reliever's.

[nolanwood]

Isringhausen has been very successful, and he makes games ALOT more interesting than Dempster.....

 

The bottom line is that Dempster gets the save. And, more often than not, I don't think he makes the game THAT interesting - definitely not comparable with JoBo. We've been complaining ever since he filled in the closer seat that he's boring to watch in the 9th because there's no action.....

 

Seems like there is a major lack of short-term memory's on here.

[1wizard]

Isringhausen has been very successful, and he makes games ALOT more interesting than Dempster

 

That is exactly what I was thinking. The only difference is Izzy has better "stuff."

[Stu]

Isringhausen has been very successful, and he makes games ALOT more interesting than Dempster

 

That is exactly what I was thinking. The only difference is Izzy has better "stuff."

 

Does he really though? I've always heard about Dempster's 97 mph heater and wicked slider. Those are 2 mighty fine pitches for a closer to have. Ryan's no Billy Wagner or Gagne, but neither is he Shooter or JoBo.

[Wheelimus]

All I know is, since Ryan has took over at closer, when they (once in a while) get the game to him in the 9th with the lead, I don't worry about blowing it...

 

Hope he keeps it up...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dempster has very good "stuff." His problem has always been control.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

If you want the second coming of JoBo, it would probably be closer to Van Buren than Dempster. Dempster has never really had good control until he has gone into the bullpen. He seems to be able to harness his stuff a lot better in the 9th than he did as a starter. Remember, with JoBo you are talking about a guy without the greatest stuff in the world but that got by on good control and guts. That sounds a lot like the scouting report on JVB to me.

[ToupeeOnFire]

It's funny that you mention Lee Smith because he had a reputation of getting those Pepto-Bismol saves.

 

I always thought that Joe Borowksi's save appearances (at least in '03) were pretty easy on the blood pressure, especially compared to that of Rod Beck from a couple of years before. Weird how perception shapes our view of things.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dempster doesn't make me nearly as nervous as Mitch Williams did.

[nolanwood]

Dempster doesn't make me nearly as nervous as Mitch Williams did.

 

No kidding - he didn't earn that nickname "wild thing" for nuthin'!!

[XZero771679666304]

Dempster has very good "stuff." His problem has always been control.

Exactly. Ryan has 10 times the stuff that Joe ever had. He has amoving fastball that he runs up in the mid to high 90's, and a wicked slider. If he had great command of the strike zone, he'd be unhittable.

[Backtobanks]

Dempster has very good "stuff." His problem has always been control.

Exactly. Ryan has 10 times the stuff that Joe ever had. He has amoving fastball that he runs up in the mid to high 90's, and a wicked slider. If he had great command of the strike zone, he'd be unhittable.

 

Sometimes that word ("if") can be the gigantic.

[XZero771679666304]

Dempster has very good "stuff." His problem has always been control.

Exactly. Ryan has 10 times the stuff that Joe ever had. He has amoving fastball that he runs up in the mid to high 90's, and a wicked slider. If he had great command of the strike zone, he'd be unhittable.

 

Sometimes that word ("if") can be the gigantic.

 

True, but I'd rather take my chances with Dempster than Borowski. Both get/got themselves into jams, but if Dempster has to really go right after guys, he can come at them with filth. And Ryan seems to get into tight spots a bit less frequently than Joe did.

 

 

On a related note, Rod Beck in 1999 was the worst at making things too interesting. It was lousy season for the Cubs, but Beck took years off of my life that year.

[erik316wttn]

Not a flame, but why do people think that a closer HAS to have shut-down stuff? I don't care if he's a junkballer whose fastball can't crack 85. As long as he gets people out, I couldn't care less.

 

Dempster has done very well. Yes, he struggled yesterday in his save, but closers (even the dominant ones) struggle from time to time. The end result was we won, and that's all I care about.

[Milli1306]

what's the problem with Dempster? Are you longing for the glory days of Mel Rojas? :wink:

[Hacking Out Machine]

Dempster has very good "stuff." His problem has always been control.

Exactly. Ryan has 10 times the stuff that Joe ever had. He has amoving fastball that he runs up in the mid to high 90's, and a wicked slider. If he had great command of the strike zone, he'd be unhittable.

 

You know, I get really bothered when people criticize Borowski's "stuff". This year and last year, he obviously didn't have it, but he certainly did in '02 and '03. It's a mistake to say he got by on guile and dirty tricks. I can see calling a guy lucky if he gives up a ton of hits and doesn't strike out anyone, but that wasn't the case at all with Joe during those years. 163 K's compared to 137 hits allowed over 2 years of heavy use is pretty darn dominating in my opinion. You can't do that in the major leagues without having good stuff. I don't think anyone had stuff 10 times better than Borowski, let alone a fastball/slider goof like Demspster(fastball/slider goof is a term of endearment by the way).

 

Am I the only guy that remembers Joe just rearing back and blowing the Braves away in the 9th inning in game 5 of the NLDS in Atlanta?

[ToupeeOnFire]

Dempster has very good "stuff." His problem has always been control.

Exactly. Ryan has 10 times the stuff that Joe ever had. He has amoving fastball that he runs up in the mid to high 90's, and a wicked slider. If he had great command of the strike zone, he'd be unhittable.

 

You know, I get really bothered when people criticize Borowski's "stuff". This year and last year, he obviously didn't have it, but he certainly did in '02 and '03. It's a mistake to say he got by on guile and dirty tricks. I can see calling a guy lucky if he gives up a ton of hits and doesn't strike out anyone, but that wasn't the case at all with Joe during those years. 163 K's compared to 137 hits allowed over 2 years of heavy use is pretty darn dominating in my opinion. You can't do that in the major leagues without having good stuff. I don't think anyone had stuff 10 times better than Borowski, let alone a fastball/slider goof like Demspster(fastball/slider goof is a term of endearment by the way).

 

Am I the only guy that remembers Joe just rearing back and blowing the Braves away in the 9th inning in game 5 of the NLDS in Atlanta?

 

No.

 

And, so far, he has pitched lights out for the D-Rays (6 and 2/3s scoreless inning with only one hit allowed).

 

Sure, he is pitching in a non-pressure situatian, but for two years he was our best reliever. I wish nothing but the best for JoBo.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I cringed when I found out about the DFA. It seemed to me that he was finally starting to get his velocity back to normal, keeping the ball down, yada yada. Tampa got a pretty darn good reliever at our expense. I hope the guy has a few more good years in him.