Bruce Levine Thinks NL Wild Card May Turn on Dunn Deal

[USSoccer]

I am curious about something...I know Dunn is a major object of lust to a majority here, so I was wondering what people think if this situation were to arise:

 

(Note: I am not necessarily advocating this...I am just wondering what kind of revolt would go down here if this came to pass)

 

 

We all know the price of Dunn will be fairly exhorbatant. Would people be willing to take on Griffey and his contract in order to pry Dunn away as well? Obviously, this would include shipping Corey back to them (along with pitching, duh). But by taking on that much extra money, the Reds may not require the Cubs to fork over as many prospects or at least as many primo prospects. Now, whether or not Cincy would do this is purely speculation, but DanO isnt exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. I am more curious as to whether anyone would take this on. If the Reds are really interested in dumping some money along with garnering some good pitching, it makes sense on their part. And the Cubs are one of the few teams to take on the money AND offer the pitching they so desperately need. It could be what would make sending Dunn to Chicago more enticing than elsewhere.

 

In all, what I am asking is....would it be worth it take Griffey and his contract if it meant:

 

1. getting Dunn

2. Keeping dunn out of Houston or St. Louis

 

 

(I know there are also issues of payroll in the future and how much money this could tie up, but I am totally ignoring that all now, because, dammit, I want the Cubs to win...lol)

 

I think Griffey serves as a draw for the GAB and the Reds. I'd think they would want to trade one or the other, but not both, and probably not to the same team.

 

Besides, Griffey is owed a ton of money. I wouldn't want Dunn if it meant taking Griffey and hindering our options budget-wise.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Doesn't Griffey have a no trade clause? He was also quoted recently as saying that he wants to finish his career in Cincinnati.

 

But, for arguments' sake, I wouldn't take Griffey b/c it would take way too much money to have both he and Dunn next year.

[brinoch]

Love Reds/Cubs threads because I work with one of the more enthusiastic Reds fans I've ever known, so we always get good convo out of it.

 

And he won't shut up that the Reds need to deal Dunn (before he gets more expensive and teams know they have the Reds over a barrel) to the Cubs for pitching. He wants Patterson (for some reason he thinks the Reds could turn him around and Griffey could help on that end), Mitre, and a prospect or two.

 

I'd do that deal. Hairston can cover CF until Pie is ready. He's not tremendous on defense, but he's better than some of the guys we've sent out there.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Okay, so, with this dunn talk seemingly heating up. And it looks like the reds are at least acknowledging that they are willing to trade him, how likely is it that dunn becomes a cub?

 

Is it still a pipe dream? or is it actually a realistic chance now?

 

Hoops? Vance (if you've talked to your source)??

 

??????!!!

 

I can't say how realistic it is that he'll be dealt to the Cubs because I just don't know. I can say that the Cubs are very interested, and that the Reds do acknowledge that trading Dunn is their best option for bringing back a boatload of young pitching talent with high potential. I still feel that if the LA Dodgers gave the Reds some of their AA players, the Reds would be most inclined to trade Dunn there.

 

But that leaves the question will Dunn put them back in the race. With all their injuries and pitching woes the Dodgers would improve with Dunn but not enough to get back in the race.

 

I think the Dodgers see Dunn as much a move for the future as they do for this year.

[NorthsideAvenger]

You act as if the Cubs would have to approve the trade or something. the Cards have at least 2 major league ready pitchers who are argueably better than anything the Cubs have. If Dunn goes to the Cards it will be becuase the Cards provided better goods to trade. I don't see how Hendry can be faulted here.

 

Huh??

 

We've got plenty in our system, and at the ML level that could be moved for Dunn. I'd be hard pressed to think that we couldn't "out bid" for him.

 

The Cardinals have Wainright and Reyes, two high-level pitchers who are both major league ready and who are scouts favorites. If St. Louis is willing to include both, there's basically no way the Cubs can "outbid" that with prospects. You can put out Hill-Williams-Wellemeyer-Mitre-Guzman-Novoa-Ohman-Marshall-Nolasco-Pinto and let Cinci choose any two of them, but no pair from that group would be comparable to Reyes and Wainright, I don't think. Even if you let Cinci choose whichever three from that pool that you like, I don't believe that would compare to Reyes and Wainright.

 

Personally I don't think St. Louis will offer up both of those guys. They may be reluctant to offer even one. But if they choose to offer both, there's nothing Hendry can do in terms of offering young pitchers (short of Zambrano) that can match, IMO.

 

I don't know if I would call Adam Wainwright a "high level major league pitcher", because he has a 3.71 ERA, with 136 hits in 126 IPs, a 1.31 WHIP, and has 92 k's in 126 IPs in AAA. So the ONLY thing that might intrigue scouts if the fact that he is 6'7. That and the fact that the Braves were more then ready to part him for one yr rental JD Drew, has you thinking, cause the Braves have HARDLY made a mistake in regardless in trading young pitching. So I am sure the CUBS can match that prospect with either Mitre or even Rich Hill. Now, Reyes I would agree he would be consider a "high level major league pitcher. Wainwright just has Jeff Juden written all over him, or at-best Aaron Harang.

 

So the Cubs coud definately OUTBID the Cards for Dunn, if they want to, but that's the question......is Dunn worth it?

[Mushimus]

Okay, so, with this dunn talk seemingly heating up. And it looks like the reds are at least acknowledging that they are willing to trade him, how likely is it that dunn becomes a cub?

 

Is it still a pipe dream? or is it actually a realistic chance now?

 

Hoops? Vance (if you've talked to your source)??

 

??????!!!

 

I can't say how realistic it is that he'll be dealt to the Cubs because I just don't know. I can say that the Cubs are very interested, and that the Reds do acknowledge that trading Dunn is their best option for bringing back a boatload of young pitching talent with high potential. I still feel that if the LA Dodgers gave the Reds some of their AA players, the Reds would be most inclined to trade Dunn there.

 

But that leaves the question will Dunn put them back in the race. With all their injuries and pitching woes the Dodgers would improve with Dunn but not enough to get back in the race.

 

I think the Dodgers see Dunn as much a move for the future as they do for this year.

 

 

But at what cost do they give up Guzman, Chad Billingsly, Edwin Jackson to get Dunn?? I just don't see it happening.

[rawaction]

Okay, so, with this dunn talk seemingly heating up. And it looks like the reds are at least acknowledging that they are willing to trade him, how likely is it that dunn becomes a cub?

 

Is it still a pipe dream? or is it actually a realistic chance now?

 

Hoops? Vance (if you've talked to your source)??

 

??????!!!

 

I can't say how realistic it is that he'll be dealt to the Cubs because I just don't know. I can say that the Cubs are very interested, and that the Reds do acknowledge that trading Dunn is their best option for bringing back a boatload of young pitching talent with high potential. I still feel that if the LA Dodgers gave the Reds some of their AA players, the Reds would be most inclined to trade Dunn there.

 

But that leaves the question will Dunn put them back in the race. With all their injuries and pitching woes the Dodgers would improve with Dunn but not enough to get back in the race.

 

I think the Dodgers see Dunn as much a move for the future as they do for this year.

 

 

But at what cost do they give up Guzman, Chad Billingsly, Edwin Jackson to get Dunn?? I just don't see it happening.

 

I think they might. Jackson is still young (21), but hasn't been very good at all since 2003. I think he's losing fans in the LA organization, ala Jerome Williams. I think they would need something along with Dunn, though. Maybe Randa?

[Outshined_One]

But at what cost do they give up Guzman, Chad Billingsly, Edwin Jackson to get Dunn?? I just don't see it happening.

 

They have a deep enough farm system that I think the Dodgers could afford to part with some of their top prospects. Heck, their AA team is more stacked than most teams' farm systems.

 

The NL West is really weak now as it is. With Bonds seemingly done for, none of the teams really strike me as strong enough to really dominate that division. The Dodgers could really become the top team in that division for a long time to come if they could...but they don't have a consistent and healthy offensive threat.

 

Give them Adam Dunn and they might well take over the NL West for the foreseeable future and should have their share of shots in the playoffs during that time.

 

I think that'd be worth parting with guys like Loney, Guzman, Broxton, and Billingsley.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Spoke with my source and he says info is harder to come by with Pupura than it was with Hunsicker.

 

Either way, apparently, the Astros turned down the Reds first proposal. The Reds wanted the Astros to part with Backe, Lane, and a minor league pitcher believed to be Patton. The Astros felt that was too expensive and said no. It doesn't mean there won't be a deal, but my source seems to believe the Reds are asking more than anyone is willing to part with.

 

Apparently they want one young established major league pitcher, one established position player, and at least one top shelf minor league pitcher.

[Roast]

Spoke with my source and he says info is harder to come by with Pupura than it was with Hunsicker.

 

Either way, apparently, the Astros turned down the Reds first proposal. The Reds wanted the Astros to part with Backe, Lane, and a minor league pitcher believed to be Patton. The Astros felt that was too expensive and said no. It doesn't mean there won't be a deal, but my source seems to believe the Reds are asking more than anyone is willing to part with.

 

Apparently they want one young established major league pitcher, one established position player, and at least one top shelf minor league pitcher.

 

Awesome, thanks for the info vance.

 

So, by that formula, would Mitre/Williams, Patterson, and Dope do the trick? Or would they want more than patterson?

[Flames24Rulz]

Spoke with my source and he says info is harder to come by with Pupura than it was with Hunsicker.

 

Either way, apparently, the Astros turned down the Reds first proposal. The Reds wanted the Astros to part with Backe, Lane, and a minor league pitcher believed to be Patton. The Astros felt that was too expensive and said no. It doesn't mean there won't be a deal, but my source seems to believe the Reds are asking more than anyone is willing to part with.

 

Apparently they want one young established major league pitcher, one established position player, and at least one top shelf minor league pitcher.

 

Awesome, thanks for the info vance.

 

So, by that formula, would Mitre/Williams, Patterson, and Dope do the trick? Or would they want more than patterson?

 

if they want more then Patterson, i would probably include Rusch as well.

[Roast]

Spoke with my source and he says info is harder to come by with Pupura than it was with Hunsicker.

 

Either way, apparently, the Astros turned down the Reds first proposal. The Reds wanted the Astros to part with Backe, Lane, and a minor league pitcher believed to be Patton. The Astros felt that was too expensive and said no. It doesn't mean there won't be a deal, but my source seems to believe the Reds are asking more than anyone is willing to part with.

 

Apparently they want one young established major league pitcher, one established position player, and at least one top shelf minor league pitcher.

 

Awesome, thanks for the info vance.

 

So, by that formula, would Mitre/Williams, Patterson, and Dope do the trick? Or would they want more than patterson?

 

if they want more then Patterson, i would probably include Rusch as well.

 

Thats not what I meant. According to Vance's source, they want an "Established position player." Maybe they dont consider Cpatt established, with good reason i might add. I was thinking maybe sending walker instead of Cpatt. Would you guys do this deal??

 

Walker, Mitre/williams, Dopirak for Adam Dunn?

[Flames24Rulz]

i don't think CPatt does it then. If the rumor was true, they wouldn't even take CPatt for Kearns straight up. Walker is an established position player and you can move Hairston to 2B, but then who becomes the CF when you get Dunn? Would you shift Burny to CF and go with Holla/Murton in RF instead? Just something to wonder about...

 

i would still do that deal...my love for Dunn can't keep me from making that deal :wink:

[Roast]

you can move Hairston to 2B, but then who becomes the CF when you get Dunn? Would you shift Burny to CF and go with Holla/Murton in RF instead? Just something to wonder about...

 

I was thinking of moving Neifi to second. Look, he's gonna play every day anyways because dusty loves him so much. If you move him to second, then you can put Cedeno at short.

 

I'd rather keep Hairston in center, assuming we dont aquire another CFer. People sometimes complain about Hairstons D. I cant immagine what burny would be like in center. he's a good defender, but not fast enough for center anymore, imo.

[Tim]

Can anyone tell me why they would consider Jason Lane more established or valuable than Corey?

 

I don't get it.

[Roast]

Can anyone tell me why they would consider Jason Lane more established or valuable than Corey?

 

I don't get it.

 

Who is "they". If its teh Stro's, i dont know. If you mean the reds, maybe they dont. I dont think its been reported or hinted at that they turned down an offer of Cpatt... at least not for dunn.

[Outshined_One]

Backe's not exactly established and valuable either. That career 5+ ERA would look reeeeeeeeeeeeal good at the GABP.

 

Patton's the one that bothers me in this deal, though. How a team evaluates him is a big part of the deal, but basically speaking, he's a young and mature lefty who has terrific and advanced stuff and might move fast through any system. He is in Low A right now, so he's a ways away from contributing. He also is a bit undersized (6'1, 180 lbs), so durability might be an issue.

 

My problem is whether or not the Cubs have a prospect like him that would interest the Reds. Hill or Marshall, maybe. It all depends on how the Reds see the Cubs' prospects.

 

My honest opinion is that the Cubs could (and should) trump this deal and still not overpay. Patterson + Mitre + Marshall + cash or a PTBNL for Dunn might not be the worst of ideas, imo.

[Tim]

Can anyone tell me why they would consider Jason Lane more established or valuable than Corey?

 

I don't get it.

 

Who is "they". If its teh Stro's, i dont know. If you mean the reds, maybe they dont. I dont think its been reported or hinted at that they turned down an offer of Cpatt... at least not for dunn.

Actually, I was referring to the people in this thread that talked about Lane as if he's light years better than Corey. As if his .280 OBP is soooo much better.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

My feeling is that the Cubs are lacking the major league pitcher that the Reds would be looking for. Patterson likely would do the trick as far as major league position player, and they would likely want Rich Hill or another one of our top minor league pitchers, but I don't know that we have a pitcher they would value as much as Backe. Williams might fit the bill, but I'm not sure Mitre is valued as high as Backe.

 

My source also indicated that what they are asking from other teams may be different than what they are asking from the Astros. He classified the Reds demands as "unreasonable." My perception is that the Reds are wanting the cream of the crop of whoever's minor league system they are trading with. My source also indicated that in talks over Dunn, Tavares's name came up.

 

My guess is that if Hendry has held any serious discussions the Reds have insisted on Pie. It's a gut feeling. They likely asked for Pie, Dopirak, and maybe even two other players. Dunn may be moved, but right now the Reds are hoping to completely restock their team with the move.

 

But one thing my source verified. The Reds are not scared to trade him within the division and are willing to use other teams fears as to where he will go to drive up the price. His feeling is that Dunn would not go to the Astros if Pupura is calling the shots, but that there was a possibility that McClain could step in and broker a deal over his young GM's head.

[reggiemiller rules]

Saw on one rumor website, where the reds asked the indians for CC Sabathia in a deal for dunn. So looks like if they are going to trade him they want an awful lot.

[Wheelimus]

Corey gives the Reds an established center fielder with high upside. Allows them to shift Griffey to a corner and deal Kearns for a handful of great pitching prospects.

 

What about this deal

 

Corey Patterson, Sergio Mitre, and near MLB ready pitching prospect (Hill?) for Adam Dunn and a good quality position player prospect?

 

Mitre will own at the GABP. Then you can think about trading Glendon Rusch for a few high ceiling prospects to an AL contender or something (I think Ohman can come up and handle LOOGY).

 

I like the idea myself...

[burnt out cubbie fan]

You aren't going to get that prospect back if what Vance is saying is true.

[rawaction]

Williams, Patterson and Marshall is at least the equivalent of Backe, Lane, Patton. I really like Marshall, and would hate to do that deal, but I'd probably throw in Pinto instead.

[RynoRules]

My feeling is that a package of Hill, Patterson, and Mitre would likely get a deal for Dunn....well...done.

[Roast]

My feeling is that a package of Hill, Patterson, and Mitre would likely get a deal for Dunn....well...done.

 

Not if what vance is saying is true, it wont.