Cardinals interested in Billy Wagner

[Brian34Cook]

This has been talked about the last week but hasnt really gotten out that much until now..

 

The Cardinals quietly are trolling for a lefthanded reliever and would love to get Billy Wagner from Philadelphia (obviously). Wagner will be a free agent after the season and has said many times that he'd like to pitch for the Cardinals. Many teams will be grappling to land Wagner before the trading deadline.

 

Notes: Wagner rumors surface

 

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050707/capt.pagp11107070151.phillies_pirates_pagp111.jpg

 

Welcoming Wags? Another left-hander, however, could conceivably be making his way to St. Louis. Former Astro Billy Wagner, now closing games for Philadelphia, is a free agent after this season and has been mentioned in possible trade scenarios.

 

Cardinals closer Jason Isringhausen said that he and Wagner, who are both All-Stars, discussed the possibility of pitching in the same bullpen. Wagner said he would relish the chance.

 

"That would be pretty amazing," said Wagner. "Just being around him would probably make me better because of how calm and relaxed he seems when he's out there. It's always fun to talk to those guys, because I always feel like a wreck. Maybe he could help me to be better. It would be pretty interesting."

 

[More in URL]

 

Sweet jesus.. I've been hearing about this for quite some time now.. Who knows though.. This seems like a move Jocketty would make though.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I figure Wagner will be very, very expensive to acquire. It could cost the Cards Reyes.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I am not a fan of the Cards getting Wagner. If the Cubs decide to lose some more, that opinion could change.

[treebird]

Yup, that's about right. The Cards will get Wagner for next to nothing and then re-sign him cheap for next year and he'll never get hurt again.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Gammons says the Red Sox have interest in Wagner.

 

The Red Sox might be able to get Billy Wagner if the Phillies decide to trade him by July 31, but don't look for them to trade Jon Papelbon, Jon Lester or Hanley Ramirez to get him. "Why have the Braves been one of the greatest dynasties in sports?" asked Theo Epstein. "They develop players, they keep the best and when they run into rough spots, they work through them, not panic and mortgage their future for the immediate."

 

 

With Foulke out for a considerable amount of time, and it's not like he was all that effective when he was pitching, I can see this as the move the Red Sox will make. I expect the price for Wagner to be very high.

[genghiskhan]

Wagner is a free agent, so he won't be as expensive as one might think.

 

But still, good Lord would that be a great bullpen if the Cardinals could sign Wagner. It's actually a great bullpen already--2.97 bullpen ERA--but add Billy Wagner? The mind boggles.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Wagner is a free agent, so he won't be as expensive as one might think.

 

But still, good Lord would that be a great bullpen if the Cardinals could sign Wagner. It's actually a great bullpen already--2.97 bullpen ERA--but add Billy Wagner? The mind boggles.

 

I think Wagner will be expensive because of the number of teams that he would be valuable to. He's making a nice chunk, but only paying 1/3 of that will help teams.

 

Boston has interest. That alone drives up the price. Who else could use either a closer or bullpen help?

 

Atlanta? I could see them wanting him, but rumor is that they can't add payroll. They definitely have the minor leaguers to get a deal done.

 

Florida? If they're in the race, getting Wagner would be just the move I'd expect them to male.

 

That's four teams right there. That alone drives the price up. Wagner is the type of bullpen arm that would shorten a game for a team. It will likely cost whoever gets them one of their top prospects.

[genghiskhan]

It'll be a game of chicken, like what so many of these trades are. And after Jocketty ripped him off so badly in the Rolen trade, Wade might want to deal with someone else. We'll see. I would still rather the Cardinals get an outfielder, perhaps Aubrey Huff, but Wagner would make an already very good bullpen unearthly.

[Brian34Cook]

Here's what he said in October of 2003..

 

Yeah right here

 

Why aren't the Houston Astros in the playoffs? In early September they led the Chicago Cubs by 1 1/2 games with nine to play. Then they lost six of eight, including two of three to last-place Milwaukee. And they lost four of their last six to the Reds.

 

And it looks as if the Astros will part with closer Billy Wagner because they would have to pay him $8 million next season.

 

Said Wagner, "They can trade me wherever, but I'll be a free agent after next season, and then I'll sign with the St. Louis Cardinals and come back here (to Houston) and stick it to them."

 

Now, Billy, about those sticks and stones . . .

 

Wagner with more

 

"It's hard to compare (Houston) to St. Louis, Chicago and other baseball towns where the fans are knowledgeable about the game. Sometimes here they're not sure when to cheer and when to boo."

 

The first article isnt up anymore though..

 

I just find this a tad interesting. It may never happen but I could see it happening.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Wagner likes to run his mouth. It's part, not the only, reason why he's no longer in Houston. In 2003, he criticized management for not adding to the team.

 

He spouts off a lot. I'm not saying he doesn't want to play for the Cardinals, but I think a lot of that is his way of picking the team he felt would most hurt the Astros.

 

Wagner says a lot that I think he just says without thinking, much like the talk that he might retire after this season as well.

 

Also, where Wagner wants to go will have little to do with where Philly trades him. The only instance where that matters is it might make the Cards more willing to pay up to get him knowing he is amiable to re-signing with them.

[vaball]

The price in terms of prospects for Wagner will be high, but not sky high. His impending free-agency and the unlikelihood that he will resign with Philly creates a big incentive to get something for him this season. There is therefore the impetus to get something for him while they can on Philly's end.

 

Other teams will be equally aware of this. How much Philly will get will probably be determined by which GM blinks first. I think it unlikely that the Cards would trade either Wainright of Reyes for Wagner. Walt has a real knack for getting teams to take a handful of mid-level prospects.

[XZero771679666304]

The price in terms of prospects for Wagner will be high, but not sky high. His impending free-agency and the unlikelihood that he will resign with Philly creates a big incentive to get something for him this season. There is therefore the impetus to get something for him while they can on Philly's end.

 

Other teams will be equally aware of this. How much Philly will get will probably be determined by which GM blinks first. I think it unlikely that the Cards would trade either Wainright of Reyes for Wagner. Walt has a real knack for getting teams to take a handful of mid-level prospects.

 

 

If Wags is traded, I'll put my money on Boston, who needs him more and has just as much if not more to offer.

[Bench Coach]

This isn't likely, but I would love for the Cubs to trade for Wagner. I know Dempster has been doing a great job, but we could just insert Wagner as a setup man, or vice versa. Or even move Dempster back into the rotation, but then we'd have to find another reliable bullpen pitcher.

[XZero771679666304]

This isn't likely, but I would love for the Cubs to trade for Wagner. I know Dempster has been doing a great job, but we could just insert Wagner as a setup man, or vice versa. Or even move Dempster back into the rotation, but then we'd have to find another reliable bullpen pitcher.

 

Dempster is far better as a closer than he was a starter. Hendry has one pricey position filled, so dealing for Wagner doesn't make any sense. With the rest of the season in doubt, taking on unecessary salary doesn't make sense either. If Hendry wants Wagner, he can sign him in the offseason, though I doubt that happens either.

[vaball]

The price in terms of prospects for Wagner will be high, but not sky high. His impending free-agency and the unlikelihood that he will resign with Philly creates a big incentive to get something for him this season. There is therefore the impetus to get something for him while they can on Philly's end.

 

Other teams will be equally aware of this. How much Philly will get will probably be determined by which GM blinks first. I think it unlikely that the Cards would trade either Wainright of Reyes for Wagner. Walt has a real knack for getting teams to take a handful of mid-level prospects.

 

 

If Wags is traded, I'll put my money on Boston, who needs him more and has just as much if not more to offer.

 

I think his destination will come down to prospects. Somehwere in this thread is a quote from Epstein about not mortgaging the future to win now.

 

I agree though that Boston is a likely destination, and that it is more likely that he would be dealt there, or to the Cardinals, than to a divisional rival like Miami or Atlanta.

[vaball]

Yup, that's about right. The Cards will get Wagner for next to nothing and then re-sign him cheap for next year and he'll never get hurt again.

 

I just watched The Two Towers. Now I'm assuming I know where your moniker comes from. I always wondered about that.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm interested in Josie Maran too... doesn't mean anything is going to happen. :P

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The price in terms of prospects for Wagner will be high, but not sky high. His impending free-agency and the unlikelihood that he will resign with Philly creates a big incentive to get something for him this season. There is therefore the impetus to get something for him while they can on Philly's end.

 

Other teams will be equally aware of this. How much Philly will get will probably be determined by which GM blinks first. I think it unlikely that the Cards would trade either Wainright of Reyes for Wagner. Walt has a real knack for getting teams to take a handful of mid-level prospects.

 

If it comes down to mid-range prospects, I think Boston has the edge there. The Cardinals have the two pitching prospects in Reyes and Wainwright, but it gets thin after that. Boston has top prospects in Ramirez, Papelbon, and Lester. Their second tier is stronger than St. Louis. I could see Boston building a package around Kelly Shoppach. With Varitek locked up, that might interest Philly. Also, if Boston were willing to trade away Youklis in the deal, the Phillies likely bite considering Bell's injury problems.

[gus_dog]

Wagner is a free agent, so he won't be as expensive as one might think.

 

Why?

[ManEatingTarp]

Wagner is a free agent, so he won't be as expensive as one might think.

 

Why?

 

Players signed for at least another year usually require more in a trade because the window is bigger for a payoff for losing your prospects. Mark Mulder is a good example of this. He's been average at best this year, but we'll have another year to evaluate him.

 

On Wagner. This is the guy I've wanted all along. I think the Cards can find a younger OFer in the off season, but the addition of Wagner would be a huge boost. Besides giving backup to the closer position, it would make that bullpen one of, if not the best in baseball. It would make most games 6 inning contests.

That said, Walt usually surprises at the trade deadline, so I don't think this one is going to happen. I half expect him to get an impact starter.

 

my 2 cents...

[ZZ Thorn]

I'm so glad we have Dempster closing.

[gus_dog]

Wagner is a free agent, so he won't be as expensive as one might think.

 

Why?

 

Players signed for at least another year usually require more in a trade because the window is bigger for a payoff for losing your prospects. Mark Mulder is a good example of this. He's been average at best this year, but we'll have another year to evaluate him.

 

On Wagner. This is the guy I've wanted all along. I think the Cards can find a younger OFer in the off season, but the addition of Wagner would be a huge boost. Besides giving backup to the closer position, it would make that bullpen one of, if not the best in baseball. It would make most games 6 inning contests.

That said, Walt usually surprises at the trade deadline, so I don't think this one is going to happen. I half expect him to get an impact starter.

 

I still fail to see how that is cheaper than I might think.

 

1) You have to give up decent prospects

2) If you don't sign him, those prospects are gone, and so is the player you got. Although, I guess you do get the compenstory pick from whatever team does sign him.

3) If you sign him, and he is talented (e.g. Wagner), that will cost plenty, especially with the stiff competition from teams like Boston.

 

Of course, he could give Saint Louis the ever popular and famous 'home team discount' like all their other players do. :wink:

[ManEatingTarp]

Wagner is a free agent, so he won't be as expensive as one might think.

 

Why?

 

Players signed for at least another year usually require more in a trade because the window is bigger for a payoff for losing your prospects. Mark Mulder is a good example of this. He's been average at best this year, but we'll have another year to evaluate him.

 

On Wagner. This is the guy I've wanted all along. I think the Cards can find a younger OFer in the off season, but the addition of Wagner would be a huge boost. Besides giving backup to the closer position, it would make that bullpen one of, if not the best in baseball. It would make most games 6 inning contests.

That said, Walt usually surprises at the trade deadline, so I don't think this one is going to happen. I half expect him to get an impact starter.

 

I still fail to see how that is cheaper than I might think.

 

1) You have to give up decent prospects

2) If you don't sign him, those prospects are gone, and so is the player you got. Although, I guess you do get the compenstory pick from whatever team does sign him.

3) If you sign him, and he is talented (e.g. Wagner), that will cost plenty, especially with the stiff competition from teams like Boston.

 

Of course, he could give Saint Louis the ever popular and famous 'home team discount' like all their other players do. :wink:

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the price would be VERY high. If he were already signed to a 2 or 3 year deal, I don't think we would even be considering it. edit- meaning he probably wouldn't even be on the block (if he indeed is...)

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Wagner is a free agent, so he won't be as expensive as one might think.

 

Why?

 

Players signed for at least another year usually require more in a trade because the window is bigger for a payoff for losing your prospects. Mark Mulder is a good example of this. He's been average at best this year, but we'll have another year to evaluate him.

 

On Wagner. This is the guy I've wanted all along. I think the Cards can find a younger OFer in the off season, but the addition of Wagner would be a huge boost. Besides giving backup to the closer position, it would make that bullpen one of, if not the best in baseball. It would make most games 6 inning contests.

That said, Walt usually surprises at the trade deadline, so I don't think this one is going to happen. I half expect him to get an impact starter.

 

I still fail to see how that is cheaper than I might think.

 

1) You have to give up decent prospects

2) If you don't sign him, those prospects are gone, and so is the player you got. Although, I guess you do get the compenstory pick from whatever team does sign him.

3) If you sign him, and he is talented (e.g. Wagner), that will cost plenty, especially with the stiff competition from teams like Boston.

 

Of course, he could give Saint Louis the ever popular and famous 'home team discount' like all their other players do. :wink:

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the price would be VERY high. If he were already signed to a 2 or 3 year deal, I don't think we would even be considering it. edit- meaning he probably wouldn't even be on the block (if he indeed is...)

 

All indications are that he is on the block. I think the Phillies want to make sure they get something for him and they have grown weary of his mouth.

 

The Phillies may act reluctant to move him in order to drive up the price. How much he'll cost will determine how greatly he is desired by the teams that are bidding. For example, if the Red Sox offerred Shoppach and Abe Alvarez would the Cardinals be willing to top that with an offer of either Reyes or Wainwright?

 

Hawksworth, Lambert, or Pomeranz doesn't seem to be enough unless the Red Sox offer less than the Shoppach /Alvarez level.

[SouthSideRyan]

I know Ed Wade is a pretty awful GM, so he may not realize it, but the Phillies really shouldn't be in a rush to trade Wagner unless they're getting top of the line prospects, cause they'll be getting 2 draft picks when he walks anyways.

 

That said, Walt usually surprises at the trade deadline,

 

Here's hoping he surprises with another Sterling Hitchcock or Mike DeJean-esque move :)