7/2 Cubs (Williams) vs Nationals (Armas) 3:05 WGN

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Of all the regulars on the team, Corey is hitting the worst. He's not improved any since the start of the year. I've always been a big supporter of Corey, but I can't do it with any integrity any longer.

 

He's not helping the team and he's hurting us as much as anyone else on the team. If we can make an improvement in CF, then that's an area of weakness we should look to upgrade.

 

We have three areas in which we can seek improvement: CF, LF, and SS. I don't think we'll find anything at SS, so we should look at left or center. If that means Corey goes to the bench or is moved in a trade, so be it.

 

To contend this year, we can't have a CF htting .240 and getting on base at a 280 clip.

 

Fair enough, I have no problem trading Corey if it improves the team. That's a bit different from just booing his every move (just like the fans booed every ball LaTroy threw).

[ToupeeOnFire]

His play is unacceptable it's that simple. If you ask me, he deserves to get booed.

 

Maybe he deserves to get booed. But honestly, I can't be too hard on the guy. It's not like he isn't trying. Newsflash, hitting major league pitching is hard and there have been lots of guys who have had the physical tools to play the game, but who couldn't figure out the strike zone. I don't consider it a moral failing on Corey's part that he appears to be one of those players.

 

The venom against Corey is misplaced. It should be directed at Dusty Baker and the Chicago Cub organization. They are the ones who throw him into the line-up every day and insist on batting him lead-off just because he his fast.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Only 500 days left on Baker's contract boys and girls.

 

God, I'm so sick of this crap.

 

Wouldn't it be every so nice to see Baker fired this offseason and replaced with a competent manager? Too bad it won't happen. :(

[Jon]

Of all the regulars on the team, Corey is hitting the worst. He's not improved any since the start of the year. I've always been a big supporter of Corey, but I can't do it with any integrity any longer.

 

He's not helping the team and he's hurting us as much as anyone else on the team. If we can make an improvement in CF, then that's an area of weakness we should look to upgrade.

 

We have three areas in which we can seek improvement: CF, LF, and SS. I don't think we'll find anything at SS, so we should look at left or center. If that means Corey goes to the bench or is moved in a trade, so be it.

 

To contend this year, we can't have a CF htting .240 and getting on base at a 280 clip.

It hasn't been the same problem, though. There were a few weeks in there when his command of the zone was good and he was putting the ball in play, but they were mostly weak groundouts. I still think Corey's getting closer to coming out of it. If he could get a fair strike zone and didn't have to consistently swing at pitches outside of the zone, that would go a long way. And if he can change his swing so he can keep his bat more level while going through the strike zone, that would also help a lot.

 

I don't trade him. His trade value is too low right now. I'd move him to the 7th spot, but not trade him.

[NorthsideAvenger]

For this team to get better we need a lead-off hitter. Two possible guys available are Kotsay and Lawton.

 

I think it's a matter of time before Corey is gone. I don't see too many signs that he'll turn it around.

 

With the way the A's have been playing---8 in a row, and 12- of 13---I SERIOUSLY doubt Kotsay is going to be available. IF he is, Beane is undoubtably going to shoot for the moon (Pie AND say one or two of the following Gallagher/Hill/Harvey/Dopirak) and demand that kind of pacakge. So, right now, I think you should look in other directions for a leadoff hitter.

 

And Lawton, I think Littlefield, would try and make up for the ARam debacle, and ASK for more then he is worth from the Cubs.

[Crash]

Of all the regulars on the team, Corey is hitting the worst. He's not improved any since the start of the year. I've always been a big supporter of Corey, but I can't do it with any integrity any longer.

 

He's not helping the team and he's hurting us as much as anyone else on the team. If we can make an improvement in CF, then that's an area of weakness we should look to upgrade.

 

We have three areas in which we can seek improvement: CF, LF, and SS. I don't think we'll find anything at SS, so we should look at left or center. If that means Corey goes to the bench or is moved in a trade, so be it.

 

To contend this year, we can't have a CF htting .240 and getting on base at a 280 clip.

It hasn't been the same problem, though. There were a few weeks in there when his command of the zone was good and he was putting the ball in play, but they were mostly weak groundouts. I still think Corey's getting closer to coming out of it. If he could get a fair strike zone and didn't have to consistently swing at pitches outside of the zone, that would go a long way. And if he can change his swing so he can keep his bat more level while going through the strike zone, that would also help a lot.

 

I don't trade him. I'd move him to the 7th spot, but not trade him.

 

I agree. Put him in the 7th hole and leave him there for the rest of the season. I think LF is a much more pressing need than CF. At least in CF we get some good defense from Corey. LF is an offensive position and frankly it would be much easier to find a LF that can hit and give us Holla/Dubois level defense than a CF that will give us good defense and offensive punch.

 

And we already have a more an adequate leadoff hitter already on the team. His name is Todd Walker. Unfortunatly Dusty thinks "protecting" Aramis in the lineup is more important than putting a decent hitter ahead of the hottest hitter on the planet.

Edited July 2, 2005 by Crash

[J.R.]

Wouldn't it be every so nice to see Baker fired this offseason and replaced with a competent manager? Too bad it won't happen. :(

 

The man should have been gone yesterday.

 

So many Baker criticisms are cliche, but the work still needs to be done.

[Brian]

Might as well let Lee bat lead-off it's not like it would be any different than him batting 3rd :roll:

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Has Neifi been hitting the ball as hard as Dusty just said he was in the postgame show? (I haven't been able to watch a game in over a week.)

[Mizzou]

Well, according to Dusty's post game comments, Corey wont be hitting leadoff anymore. That's a start.

 

But Neif's been hitting the ball harder than anyone according to him, so I guess he'll stay at the top.

[Brian]

How much different would the game have been with this lineup

 

Walker

Hollandsworth

Lee

Ramirez

Burnitz

Barrett

Patterson

Perez

Williams

[Flames24Rulz]

Might as well let Lee bat lead-off it's not like it would be any different than him batting 3rd :roll:

 

Lee

Walker

Ramirez

Burnitz

Barrett

Holla/Dubois

Cedeno

Patterson

Pitcher

 

much improved lineup if you ask me.

 

also Boston led off with Nomar a few years ago...why can't we lead off with Lee?

[Jon]

Has Neifi been hitting the ball as hard as Dusty just said he was in the postgame show? (I haven't been able to watch a game in over a week.)

For the past 4 or 5 games, he has. The problem is that most of them are on the first pitch, so he's either getting it off the end of the bat or getting jammed b/c he loves to swing a pitcher's pitches.

[Brian]

Neifi's got a pretty hard hit single in the first, really smacked his 2nd AB that looked like a double but Guillen got to it, I think he looked very Neifi-ish (bad) for the rest of the day....

[YearofDaCubs]

Why the heck did they bring Cedeno up? I mean seriously...Let him play in AAA if we won't be able to play here. There's just so many things wrong with this team.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Of all the regulars on the team, Corey is hitting the worst. He's not improved any since the start of the year. I've always been a big supporter of Corey, but I can't do it with any integrity any longer.

 

He's not helping the team and he's hurting us as much as anyone else on the team. If we can make an improvement in CF, then that's an area of weakness we should look to upgrade.

 

We have three areas in which we can seek improvement: CF, LF, and SS. I don't think we'll find anything at SS, so we should look at left or center. If that means Corey goes to the bench or is moved in a trade, so be it.

 

To contend this year, we can't have a CF htting .240 and getting on base at a 280 clip.

It hasn't been the same problem, though. There were a few weeks in there when his command of the zone was good and he was putting the ball in play, but they were mostly weak groundouts. I still think Corey's getting closer to coming out of it. If he could get a fair strike zone and didn't have to consistently swing at pitches outside of the zone, that would go a long way. And if he can change his swing so he can keep his bat more level while going through the strike zone, that would also help a lot.

 

I don't trade him. His trade value is too low right now. I'd move him to the 7th spot, but not trade him.

 

The fact is that he's hitting poorly even for a seventh hitter. If we acquired a lead-off hitter to play left, we might could try Patterson in the seven hole. On the other hand, if we could get a lead-off hitting CF such as Kotsay, would it be a good move to bench Patterson. As much as I like his potential, I'd rather Hollandsworth come to the plate at key situations than Patterson.

 

Patterson still has value to a team that can be patient with him and try to fix him. If we want to contend for a play-off spot, we don't have that luxury. He's just not hitting. I like the patient approach he's had lately, but he still isn't putting the bat on the ball. Patterson may be used as part of the currency needed to improve this team.

[UMFan83]

Of all the regulars on the team, Corey is hitting the worst. He's not improved any since the start of the year. I've always been a big supporter of Corey, but I can't do it with any integrity any longer.

 

He's not helping the team and he's hurting us as much as anyone else on the team. If we can make an improvement in CF, then that's an area of weakness we should look to upgrade.

 

We have three areas in which we can seek improvement: CF, LF, and SS. I don't think we'll find anything at SS, so we should look at left or center. If that means Corey goes to the bench or is moved in a trade, so be it.

 

To contend this year, we can't have a CF htting .240 and getting on base at a 280 clip.

 

This year yes, but those look about AGone's numbers at SS in 2003

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Of all the regulars on the team, Corey is hitting the worst. He's not improved any since the start of the year. I've always been a big supporter of Corey, but I can't do it with any integrity any longer.

 

He's not helping the team and he's hurting us as much as anyone else on the team. If we can make an improvement in CF, then that's an area of weakness we should look to upgrade.

 

We have three areas in which we can seek improvement: CF, LF, and SS. I don't think we'll find anything at SS, so we should look at left or center. If that means Corey goes to the bench or is moved in a trade, so be it.

 

To contend this year, we can't have a CF htting .240 and getting on base at a 280 clip.

 

This year yes, but those look about AGone's numbers at SS in 2003

 

But the problem with this year's team is that we have a weak hitting shortstop with no patience, a weak hitting CFer with no patience, and an average left and right fielder. We have to improve somewhere. There's not much out there that would make an impact at SS. Rightfield isn't going anywhere, so we're left with finding improvement in left or center. Right now, CF is the biggest hole in the line-up.

[mhuber92211]

How many pitches did Patterson see today? I only saw his 1st 2 AB's which were both swing K's on 3-2 pitches. By my count he saw 16 in these 2 AB's. Thats pretty good. Brenly made a good point today talking about Corey. The thought is that he is fighting out of the slump. He is fouling pitches straight back which is a good sign but he is not hitting the ball square (or as Brenly eloquently stated "smack in the mouth"). This means he does not have a level swing and is uppercutting, which has always been his hole and why he can't reach the high & away pitch. Just like Lee has adjusted Corey can adjust as well.

 

I think that his attempt to move to leadoff to try and break out of it was a valiant attempt to try and help the team. However, this hurt Corey. Right now batting 7th would be the best spot for him "protecting" Walker. The top of the order should have Perez/Cedeno and then Barrett. I would like to try that experiment again to see if we can go back to the old school hit & run style of offense talked about earlier this season.

 

To address the booing, I agree that people have the "right" to boo, but I also think that it should be done sparingly and not directed at a player constantly. How does this help the situation? Boo the micall yesterday with Burny's HR and boo his Pickoff at 3rd but don't boo him again today when he GIDP. Whats the point? Its not like he tried to do that. Its the same mentality in abusive relationships. You have to break the habit and use postive reinforcement in order to make the punishment more meaningful. Otherwise it will desensitze the entire situation which will lead to having to use different negativity which will lead to violence. What good has ever come from the constant booing of a player?

[erik316wttn]

Why the heck did they bring Cedeno up? I mean seriously...Let him play in AAA if we won't be able to play here. There's just so many things wrong with this team.

 

Dusty liked the way Cedeno kept his seat warm when he went to make a pitching change.

[erik316wttn]

How many pitches did Patterson see today? I only saw his 1st 2 AB's which were both swing K's on 3-2 pitches. By my count he saw 16 in these 2 AB's. Thats pretty good. Brenly made a good point today talking about Corey. The thought is that he is fighting out of the slump. He is fouling pitches straight back which is a good sign but he is not hitting the ball square (or as Brenly eloquently stated "smack in the mouth"). This means he does not have a level swing and is uppercutting, which has always been his hole and why he can't reach the high & away pitch. Just like Lee has adjusted Corey can adjust as well.

 

I think that his attempt to move to leadoff to try and break out of it was a valiant attempt to try and help the team. However, this hurt Corey. Right now batting 7th would be the best spot for him "protecting" Walker. The top of the order should have Perez/Cedeno and then Barrett. I would like to try that experiment again to see if we can go back to the old school hit & run style of offense talked about earlier this season.

 

To address the booing, I agree that people have the "right" to boo, but I also think that it should be done sparingly and not directed at a player constantly. How does this help the situation? Boo the micall yesterday with Burny's HR and boo his Pickoff at 3rd but don't boo him again today when he GIDP. Whats the point? Its not like he tried to do that. Its the same mentality in abusive relationships. You have to break the habit and use postive reinforcement in order to make the punishment more meaningful. Otherwise it will desensitze the entire situation which will lead to having to use different negativity which will lead to violence. What good has ever come from the constant booing of a player?

 

I didn't see the game today, so I'm not really qualified to rip on Corey's 0-4 day. However, if what you say is true, and he's fouling off a lot more pitches and trying to hit a mistake pitch instead of popping up the first or 2nd pitch, then I commend him.

[rickrolled]

How many pitches did Patterson see today? I only saw his 1st 2 AB's which were both swing K's on 3-2 pitches. By my count he saw 16 in these 2 AB's. Thats pretty good. Brenly made a good point today talking about Corey. The thought is that he is fighting out of the slump. He is fouling pitches straight back which is a good sign but he is not hitting the ball square (or as Brenly eloquently stated "smack in the mouth"). This means he does not have a level swing and is uppercutting, which has always been his hole and why he can't reach the high & away pitch. Just like Lee has adjusted Corey can adjust as well.

 

He worked a couple decent AB's, but the problem is, a lot of the pitches he fouled off were out of the zone anyways and he should have just layed off of them. Pitchers are just constantly going up and out of the strike zone against him and he always goes fishing for it.

 

If we're going to contend for a playoff spot, we really can't put up with Corey's lack of production much longer. Seriously, how many contending teams out there have starting CF's, or even starters at any position with an OPS as low as .661? That's what Corey is down to at this point. Something needs to be done. Either move him to 7th or 8th or find a taker for him through a trade. Putting him at leadoff, with a .274 OBP, is just plain insanity.

[mhuber92211]

 

If we're going to contend for a playoff spot, we really can't put up with Corey's lack of production much longer. Seriously, how many contending teams out there have starting CF's, or even starters at any position with an OPS as low as .661? That's what Corey is down to at this point. Something needs to be done. Either move him to 7th or 8th or find a taker for him through a trade. Putting him at leadoff, with a .274 OBP, is just plain insanity.

 

Or simply a failed experiment to get a slumping player back on the right track.