Post Winter Meetings Free Agency thread

[CubinNY]

5 hours ago, Cuzi said:

If a floor was put in place, you can rest assured the Cubs have been above that floor the entire time Ricketts has owned the team.

Holy non  sequitur, Batman

[Jason Ross]

1 hour ago, thawv said:

I agree with all of this.  I'm just saying that it's going to be a topic for the next CBA  

It won't be anything the player push for, however, as they know the owners won't open the books.

I do expect owners to push for it. But because they know it's a cost saving measure on their end.

[Dmac]

7 hours ago, thawv said:

I disagree.  Players should love the idea that teams must spend a minimum amount of money on them. 

 

The problem is, you are viewing it as a team will spend more on players to increase payroll.  Let's use this example.  Let's say the Marlins need to spend another 30 million to meet the minimum.  Instead of spending in FA, they could just trade for a bad contract.  They could add someone like Bellinger and they are at their limit.  Moves like that won't improve FA, and that is what several teams will do.  They will just absorb bad contracts and not spend to get better. 

[Stratos]

15 hours ago, CubinNY said:

The players will do a cap if there is a floor and equitable revenue sharing. It’s the owners who can’t agree on that because they (Reinsdorf and Ricketts must of all) are greedy horsefeathers bags of puss and horsefeathers. 

Ricketts would probably love another excuse not to spend big money.

[Stratos]

5 hours ago, Dmac said:

The problem is, you are viewing it as a team will spend more on players to increase payroll.  Let's use this example.  Let's say the Marlins need to spend another 30 million to meet the minimum.  Instead of spending in FA, they could just trade for a bad contract.  They could add someone like Bellinger and they are at their limit.  Moves like that won't improve FA, and that is what several teams will do.  They will just absorb bad contracts and not spend to get better. 

Are you saying teams will trade for bad contracts to try to keep tanking with a floor? That's very possible.

But then that still frees money on the team that traded the bad contract.

If the rules of the cap and floor and revenue sharing ends up resulting in the same amount (or possibly more) of total team spending on players in an average offseason then what does it matter?  Its possible that the salaries for star players are suppressed in FA while the other FA players earn more.  Maybe studying other sports leagues is needed.

[thawv]

7 hours ago, Dmac said:

The problem is, you are viewing it as a team will spend more on players to increase payroll.  Let's use this example.  Let's say the Marlins need to spend another 30 million to meet the minimum.  Instead of spending in FA, they could just trade for a bad contract.  They could add someone like Bellinger and they are at their limit.  Moves like that won't improve FA, and that is what several teams will do.  They will just absorb bad contracts and not spend to get better. 

Yes they can do that. But for the most part the non-elite players should be welcoming a floor

[Rcal10]

I’m going to get away from the business side of baseball because I think that is a very complicated issue and there really isn’t any good answers. I am going back to the Cubs needing another starting pitcher. A lot of different names have been tossed out so I would like to add another one. Sandy Alcantara. He is coming off an injury. Does anyone know if he will be ready to start this season? He makes $17M a year for the next 2 years and then a team option at $21M. Cubs and Marlins talked about Luzardo, so the Marlins much have an idea of who the Cubs are willing to trade. Does Alcantara at his salary and one more year of control left, cost more than Luzardo, who was paid less but one less year of control? Is Alcantara a bigger injury risk than Luzardo? I feel his upside is higher. If his medicals are good and they expect him back at the start of the season he might be a nice get. 

[Cuzi]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

I’m going to get away from the business side of baseball because I think that is a very complicated issue and there really isn’t any good answers. I am going back to the Cubs needing another starting pitcher. A lot of different names have been tossed out so I would like to add another one. Sandy Alcantara. He is coming off an injury. Does anyone know if he will be ready to start this season? He makes $17M a year for the next 2 years and then a team option at $21M. Cubs and Marlins talked about Luzardo, so the Marlins much have an idea of who the Cubs are willing to trade. Does Alcantara at his salary and one more year of control left, cost more than Luzardo, who was paid less but one less year of control? Is Alcantara a bigger injury risk than Luzardo? I feel his upside is higher. If his medicals are good and they expect him back at the start of the season he might be a nice get. 

 They already told Alcantara 6 months ago he isn't going to be traded. Allegedly, the Marlins are facing the same possible grievance the A's are in that if they dont up their payroll to a certain level then the players union is coming after them.

[Rcal10]

23 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

 They already told Alcantara 6 months ago he isn't going to be traded. Allegedly, the Marlins are facing the same possible grievance the A's are in that if they dont up their payroll to a certain level then the players union is coming after them.

Ok, they we can rule him out. For me it comes down to who can they trade for. With the possible exception of signing Hoffman and converting him back to a starter(which I am in the fence about) I don’t see any FA they will sign. They either cost too much (Flaherty or Burnes) or they are not certain to be any better than Assad or Wicks in the rotation. The problem with a trade is most pitchers rumored to be available are on teams that are trying to win. So they want major league talent back. I want the Cubs to deal from minor league talent. So really not sure how they get that MOR starter they are said to want. 

[Bull]

39 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Ok, they we can rule him out. For me it comes down to who can they trade for. With the possible exception of signing Hoffman and converting him back to a starter(which I am in the fence about) I don’t see any FA they will sign. They either cost too much (Flaherty or Burnes) or they are not certain to be any better than Assad or Wicks in the rotation. The problem with a trade is most pitchers rumored to be available are on teams that are trying to win. So they want major league talent back. I want the Cubs to deal from minor league talent. So really not sure how they get that MOR starter they are said to want. 

There are several routes. 

The challenge is, it is hard to let go of the Cubs really-good-but-not-good-enough-to contend core. They have so many 2 win players and one need to be upgraded to a 4 win player.

The problem in this is that we see upside in a 2-win player like Busch and ZiPs sees 4 win potential in a player like Hoerner. So who do you try to upgrade. And if you trade a 2-4 win position player for a 2-4 win pitcher, you create a big hole at a position like first or second, and all your depth is in the outfield (besides Shaw, who you are already, ostensibly, counting on for 3B. 

Quality floor but no star power or depth in the starting lineup.

Depth but no big WAR in the rotation.

It is a great starting point. But I don't think you can put this team over the top by just trades. There has to be FA incoming.

[Rcal10]

6 minutes ago, Bull said:

There are several routes. 

The challenge is, it is hard to let go of the Cubs really-good-but-not-good-enough-to contend core. They have so many 2 win players and one need to be upgraded to a 4 win player.

The problem in this is that we see upside in a 2-win player like Busch and ZiPs sees 4 win potential in a player like Hoerner. So who do you try to upgrade. And if you trade a 2-4 win position player for a 2-4 win pitcher, you create a big hole at a position like first or second, and all your depth is in the outfield (besides Shaw, who you are already, ostensibly, counting on for 3B. 

Quality floor but no star power or depth in the starting lineup.

Depth but no big WAR in the rotation.

It is a great starting point. But I don't think you can put this team over the top by just trades. There has to be FA incoming.

I think it will come in the way I of the pen. Maybe Yates and/or Minter. Maybe Robertson? Maybe Chafin. I am not counting on Scott. They may add a bench bat via FA. But I don’t see the heavy lifting coming from FA, unless they did trade major league talent for a MOR starter and then replaced the guy they lost with a FA. Example would be trade Suzuki for a MOR starter and then sign Alonso, Santander or Hernandez to replace Suzuki’s bat. I don’t think they would do that, but IMO that is the only way they add a big FA. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

I just want to know for sure they are going to spend the ~40M they have. Too many articles this week making it seem like they are cutting payroll and I'm honestly nervous. 

[Rcal10]

13 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I just want to know for sure they are going to spend the ~40M they have. Too many articles this week making it seem like they are cutting payroll and I'm honestly nervous. 

I want to know that as well. But even spending $40M would be cutting payroll by $7M-$10M. I do think they will spend close to that amount, but not sure on who. 
For those who know how the team payroll is figured when counting it towards the LT would signing PCA to a $100M contract extension that was good for 8 years show up as PCA costing the Cubs $12.5 against the alt every year for 8 years, or would it only show up as $700,000, or whatever the amount is this year, and each year show up at the amount they structure the deal at? I only made up numbers for an example. I don’t know if they are realistic or not. That isn’t the point of this question. 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Rcal10

[LBiittner]

OMG. sports writing has reached absurdity. Someone writing for Sports Illustrated, which back in my youthful years was the pinnacle of sports news publications, suggested cubs trade for Bostons Yashida because cubs could use a designated hitter. The package going back would be hoerner and drew smiley. It was posted 3 hours ago / and somebody is getting paid for writing this?

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

OMG. sports writing has reached absurdity. Someone writing for Sports Illustrated, which back in my youthful years was the pinnacle of sports news publications, suggested cubs trade for Bostons Yashida because cubs could use a designated hitter. The package going back would be hoerner and drew smiley. It was posted 3 hours ago / and somebody is getting paid for writing this?

WOW!!! That is brutal. And, like you said, he got paid for that nonsense. I also loved sports illustrated, but I used to get a subscription to The Sporting News as a Christmas gift every year from my uncle. That was also a great sports publication. 

[Bertz]

30 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I just want to know for sure they are going to spend the ~40M they have. Too many articles this week making it seem like they are cutting payroll and I'm honestly nervous. 

The Athletic guys have been pretty matter of fact that they're going to spend it. 

[Bertz]

 

 

[LBiittner]

45 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

WOW!!! That is brutal. And, like you said, he got paid for that nonsense. I also loved sports illustrated, but I used to get a subscription to The Sporting News as a Christmas gift every year from my uncle. That was also a great sports publication. 

I too subscribed to sporting news back in the day and it was my Bible as far winter meetings and spring training info. Heck, I even listened to Bill veeck and mary (she was the star) on the radio in order to get my weekly baseball fix during the offseason.

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, LBiittner said:

I too subscribed to sporting news back in the day and it was my Bible as far winter meetings and spring training info. Heck, I even listened to Bill veeck and mary (she was the star) on the radio in order to get my weekly baseball fix during the offseason.

Good times!!!!

[Bull]

6 hours ago, LBiittner said:

OMG. sports writing has reached absurdity. Someone writing for Sports Illustrated, which back in my youthful years was the pinnacle of sports news publications, suggested cubs trade for Bostons Yashida because cubs could use a designated hitter. The package going back would be hoerner and drew smiley. It was posted 3 hours ago / and somebody is getting paid for writing this?

SI cut most of their staff just over a year ago. They let less than a quarter of the people write all the articles. But they don’t write, they  only edit (poorly) AI written drivel. 
 

[thawv]

3 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Good times!!!!

You 2 are showing your age!!!

[Rcal10]

Just now, thawv said:

You 2 are showing your age!!!

And you remember all of it😬

[LBiittner]

1 hour ago, Bull said:

SI cut most of their staff just over a year ago. They let less than a quarter of the people write all the articles. But they don’t write, they  only edit (poorly) AI written drivel. 
 

Artificial intelligence. People are telling me (I think they're actually people) by 2029 AI will be involved in every little and big aspect of our lives. 

I guess we will be consuming soylent green and type 2 diabetes will be nonexistent. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by LBiittner

[Stratos]

6 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

WOW!!! That is brutal. And, like you said, he got paid for that nonsense. I also loved sports illustrated, but I used to get a subscription to The Sporting News as a Christmas gift every year from my uncle. That was also a great sports publication. 

I used to buy a lot of the Baseball Weekly newspapers.

It's crazy to remember back when the internet didn't exist you'd wait for the next morning to read the boxsxore in your local newspaper haha, and once a week they'd publish the stats for all players on each team.

[BigbadB]

10 hours ago, Stratos said:

I used to buy a lot of the Baseball Weekly newspapers.

It's crazy to remember back when the internet didn't exist you'd wait for the next morning to read the boxsxore in your local newspaper haha, and once a week they'd publish the stats for all players on each team.

Yep. Was it Baseball Digest that went out once a week? There might have been two like that. I used to get that every week along with Baseball America. The weekly one was miniature size and was usually pretty thick. When they did a team by team analysis (like preseason), it was usually several pages long.