Dusty Bad Managerial Moves Thread

[Jake17]

Pitching Chad Fox on back to back days when the team has a 6 run lead blowing a chance to get Leicester some much needed work. And, oh yeah, hurting a guy with a history of elbow problems (though it looked like a shoulder to me).

 

While I would have used Leicester there (simply so that Fox would be available tomorrow), a major league reliever needs to be able to pitch three one-inning outings on consecutive days.

 

I agree with that, but up 6 is a perfect time to get one of the guys deep in your pen some work. Not a guy you plan to use in your closer by "situation".

[TruffleShuffle]

Pitching Chad Fox on back to back days when the team has a 6 run lead blowing a chance to get Leicester some much needed work. And, oh yeah, hurting a guy with a history of elbow problems (though it looked like a shoulder to me).

 

While I would have used Leicester there (simply so that Fox would be available tomorrow), a major league reliever needs to be able to pitch three one-inning outings on consecutive days.

 

I agree with that, but up 6 is a perfect time to get one of the guys deep in your pen some work. Not a guy you plan to use in your closer by "situation".

 

I think the problem was that they assumed they wouldn't score in the bottom of the 8th. When Grieve got on, they should have started warming up Leicester right away. Once Neifi hit his HR, there was no time to get Leicester ready, especially since the next two guys got out on one pitch. By the time Neifi hit the HR, they really didn't leave themselves any choice but to put in Fox.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

[brinoch]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

This is a lovely post. Too horribly true to contemplate, but a lovely post. Dusty has pitched many guys into surgery. I hope they relieve him of his duties before we see another one.

 

Tonight I feel very, very bad for Chad Fox. And very, very angry at Dusty.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

This is a lovely post. Too horribly true to contemplate, but a lovely post. Dusty has pitched many guys into surgery. I hope they relieve him of his duties before we see another one.

 

Tonight I feel very, very bad for Chad Fox. And very, very angry at Dusty.

 

Robb Nen comes to mind.

[sethuel1]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

the reason why I hadn't is because I knew you'd do a much, much better job. Congrats, you're the Lewis Black of this message board, and I mean that as a total compliment (though, if I remember correctly, you're a Republican and probably won't take it as such). But you do have a way of angrily, somewhat funnily, and still sincerely making a point.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

This is a lovely post. Too horribly true to contemplate, but a lovely post. Dusty has pitched many guys into surgery. I hope they relieve him of his duties before we see another one.

 

Tonight I feel very, very bad for Chad Fox. And very, very angry at Dusty.

 

Robb Nen comes to mind.

 

Yeah. He's the only one that comes to mind from the past 12 years.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

the reason why I hadn't is because I knew you'd do a much, much better job. Congrats, you're the Lewis Black of this message board, and I mean that as a total compliment (though, if I remember correctly, you're a Republican and probably won't take it as such). But you do have a way of angrily, somewhat funnily, and still sincerely making a point.

 

Naw, I'm a Republican yeah, but I don't take politics very seriously. Lewis Black is a riot, I like him a lot more than Stewart, I have to say. I'm also crazy about the blonde, I forget her name now? Smart, funny, and cute.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

This is a lovely post. Too horribly true to contemplate, but a lovely post. Dusty has pitched many guys into surgery. I hope they relieve him of his duties before we see another one.

 

Tonight I feel very, very bad for Chad Fox. And very, very angry at Dusty.

 

Robb Nen comes to mind.

 

Yeah. He's the only one that comes to mind from the past 12 years.

 

Do you still think it's a coincidence that both Wood and Prior have been injured more than healthy since the 2003 season?

[Yeti]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

the reason why I hadn't is because I knew you'd do a much, much better job. Congrats, you're the Lewis Black of this message board, and I mean that as a total compliment (though, if I remember correctly, you're a Republican and probably won't take it as such). But you do have a way of angrily, somewhat funnily, and still sincerely making a point.

 

Naw, I'm a Republican yeah, but I don't take politics very seriously. Lewis Black is a riot, I like him a lot more than Stewart, I have to say. I'm also crazy about the blonde, I forget her name now? Smart, funny, and cute.

anne coulter? surely you jest!!! what a whore !!!! she'd go d on any republican that paid her to push his/her agenda

 

 

anyway i missed the 9th tonight....how bad does chad look?im seriously thinking of giving up my addiction to the cubs till dusty is gone!

[Laura]

I didn't see the game on tv. I'm reading that Dusty was shown talking with Rothschild and that Rothschild motioned indicating that Fox should face one more batter (and then Fox blew out his elbow).

 

 

It's hard to fathom what they can even be thinking ... :x

 

I guess Ice wasn't available because he was tasked with protecting the bullpen from foul balls.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

This is a lovely post. Too horribly true to contemplate, but a lovely post. Dusty has pitched many guys into surgery. I hope they relieve him of his duties before we see another one.

 

Tonight I feel very, very bad for Chad Fox. And very, very angry at Dusty.

 

Robb Nen comes to mind.

 

Yeah. He's the only one that comes to mind from the past 12 years.

 

Do you still think it's a coincidence that both Wood and Prior have been injured more than healthy since the 2003 season?

 

Do you have any sort of conclusive evidence that Dusty's one season of Prior ruined his arm that much that he's still getting injured as recently as this ST. Or do you think Prior was misused last year, cause it didn't look like it to me.

 

Do you think their previous injury histories should be ignored? Wood had TJ surgery in 98, was injured again in '01, yet for some reason his injuries are all Dusty. Prior was injured in '02, had a freak baserunning injury in '03, an achilles injury in '04, and missed 1 start this year with an arm injury. The only start he's missed thus far due to arm troubles.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why doesn't someone here have the guts to point out that Baker's complete mental malfeasance has gone beyond costing the Cubs a ballgame--now it has perhaps cost a guy his CAREER. Does anyone doubt what they were saying in San Francisco now??

 

This jerkweed needs to be run out of town TONIGHT. Not tomorrow, not later in the season, not after the season, but TONIGHT. It shows how the top brass completely lack control of the situation, in that they do nothing instead. Hey morons, the manager you hired just pissed away $2MM of your investment money, what, there's no culpability here? Take control of your team back, or watch your $$ slip slip away.

 

You say, oh hell, it's just Chad Fox, big deal, he'd of eventually got hurt anyway? Really?!! That's a lovely way of placing priority on the health of the ballplayers under your employ. If you're going to be selective about it, why not just throw other flotsam like a Cliff Bartosh or Jon Leicester let's say under the train. What the hay, it's not like they're important or anything. In Dusty We Trusty!!!!

 

Let's hear how you whine when it's Carlos Zambrano or Mark Prior walking off the mound holding his elbow in four pieces.

 

I don't want to nitpick, but Fox is only making 575k this year. I can understand being upset that Dusty brought in Fox(I know I was), but how are we blaming him for the injury?

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm curious as well, what exactly did Dusty do that caused Fox to get injured? Did he leave him out there too long? Is Fox not supposed to throw more than 20 pitches? If that's the case why is there no hate being spewed for Rothschild, he was the one who said leave him in there for 1 more batter(correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of what other people say, I don't get WCIU)

 

Fox pitched a total of 8 innings for Dusty Baker, 8! Yet somehow Baker has ended his career.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm curious as well, what exactly did Dusty do that caused Fox to get injured? Did he leave him out there too long? Is Fox not supposed to throw more than 20 pitches? If that's the case why is there no hate being spewed for Rothschild, he was the one who said leave him in there for 1 more batter(correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of what other people say, I don't get WCIU)

 

Fox pitched a total of 8 innings for Dusty Baker, 8! Yet somehow Baker has ended his career.

 

Don't worry... I did this on another board one time, asking people whose careers Dusty ruined. I got Billy Swift, which may very well have been a legitimate answer. I got Ryan Vogelsong, who pitched 12 innings under Dusty. I got Jason Schmidt, who had elbow issues long before he met Dusty, and who had pitched a grand total of 66 innings under Dusty before the elbow flared up again. And I got Robb Nen, whose innings pitched were generally less than the number of innings pitched by other top closers during the time Dusty managed him. Most people in baseball would tell you that Nen's shoulder problems were a result of him hardly using his legs at all to drive, and relying purely on arm strength to throw 98 mph.

 

People assume when a guy gets hurt, it's the manager's fault. Hence the reaction with Fox.

[CubinNY]

I'm curious as well, what exactly did Dusty do that caused Fox to get injured? Did he leave him out there too long? Is Fox not supposed to throw more than 20 pitches? If that's the case why is there no hate being spewed for Rothschild, he was the one who said leave him in there for 1 more batter(correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of what other people say, I don't get WCIU)

 

Fox pitched a total of 8 innings for Dusty Baker, 8! Yet somehow Baker has ended his career.

 

It's not how many innings but when. Fox pitched in 3 consecutive days. The culmination was yesterday's blow out. There was absolutly no reason for him to be in there, none. I don't blame Dusty for injurying Fox, but I do question his baseball acumen.

 

How do you pitch a guy comming off of a serious arm injury in 3 straight games? Espeically when he has been anointed as the closer de jour.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm curious as well, what exactly did Dusty do that caused Fox to get injured? Did he leave him out there too long? Is Fox not supposed to throw more than 20 pitches? If that's the case why is there no hate being spewed for Rothschild, he was the one who said leave him in there for 1 more batter(correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of what other people say, I don't get WCIU)

 

Fox pitched a total of 8 innings for Dusty Baker, 8! Yet somehow Baker has ended his career.

 

It's not how many innings but when. Fox pitched in 3 consecutive days. The culmination was yesterday's blow out. There was absolutly no reason for him to be in there, none. I don't blame Dusty for injurying Fox, but I do question his baseball acumen.

 

How do you pitch a guy comming off of a serious arm injury in 3 straight games? Espeically when he has been anointed as the closer de jour.

 

Fox didn't pitch in on April 23rd. He pitched in 2 straight games.

[CubinNY]

Thank you for the correction. Sorry I made the mistake.

 

As I said in my post I don't blame Dusty for Fox's injury. But I do question bringing the closer in in a blow out.

[SouthSideRyan]

Thank you for the correction. Sorry I made the mistake.

 

As I said in my post I don't blame Dusty for Fox's injury. But I do question bringing the closer in in a blow out.

 

I'll definitely agree with that. It's one of the things I don't understand about Dusty. How he can overthink situations so much at times, and at other times completely underthink things. Bringing in Fox with a 4 run lead(What it was when he started warming up) still is bad, but it's not a terrible mistake all things considered. But when you get a couple guys on with just 1 out, how do you not get Leicester up in a hurry in case you add on an insurance run? It's not like it'll be bad for Leicester to get loose in the pen, he hasn't pitched in a week anyways.

[halplm]

I have decided, there is no understanding Dusty. It's just not possible. If I had the power, I would declare this a law of the Universe.

 

When you recognize that, it kind of becomes amusing to see the stuff he does... at least when the Cubs still win... and as long as you're not Chad Fox...

 

I will say this, it's obvious that Chad was going to have this injury. Even if he shouldn't have played, or shouldn't have still been out there. As the closer, there would be some situation where he would try to get that "something extra" to get a guy out, and this would have happened.

 

The closer is expected to go any night they need him, obviously Chad couldn't do that, and I say it's better we found that out now, rather than later.

[ZZ Thorn]

I'm curious as well, what exactly did Dusty do that caused Fox to get injured? Did he leave him out there too long? Is Fox not supposed to throw more than 20 pitches? If that's the case why is there no hate being spewed for Rothschild, he was the one who said leave him in there for 1 more batter(correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of what other people say, I don't get WCIU)

 

Fox pitched a total of 8 innings for Dusty Baker, 8! Yet somehow Baker has ended his career.

 

It's not how many innings but when. Fox pitched in 3 consecutive days. The culmination was yesterday's blow out. There was absolutly no reason for him to be in there, none. I don't blame Dusty for injurying Fox, but I do question his baseball acumen.

 

How do you pitch a guy comming off of a serious arm injury in 3 straight games? Espeically when he has been anointed as the closer de jour.

 

If a tree falls in the forest...can we blame Dusty?

 

Fox closed one game, he's not our closer.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm curious as well, what exactly did Dusty do that caused Fox to get injured? Did he leave him out there too long? Is Fox not supposed to throw more than 20 pitches? If that's the case why is there no hate being spewed for Rothschild, he was the one who said leave him in there for 1 more batter(correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of what other people say, I don't get WCIU)

 

Fox pitched a total of 8 innings for Dusty Baker, 8! Yet somehow Baker has ended his career.

 

It's not how many innings but when. Fox pitched in 3 consecutive days. The culmination was yesterday's blow out. There was absolutly no reason for him to be in there, none. I don't blame Dusty for injurying Fox, but I do question his baseball acumen.

 

How do you pitch a guy comming off of a serious arm injury in 3 straight games? Espeically when he has been anointed as the closer de jour.

 

If a tree falls in the forest...can we blame Dusty?

 

Fox closed one game, he's not our closer.

 

Yes... apparently he can also be blamed for the Titanic, Hindenburg, UN Food for Oil scandal, the faulty intelligence that caused the asinine war in Iraq, urban plight, global warming, deforestation and overpopulation as well. World War II and Vietnam may well have been his fault, too.

[frostwyrm]

Yes... apparently he can also be blamed for the Titanic, Hindenburg, UN Food for Oil scandal, the faulty intelligence that caused the asinine war in Iraq, urban plight, global warming, deforestation and overpopulation as well. World War II and Vietnam may well have been his fault, too.

 

Starting Hollandsworth over Dubois is worse than World War II.

[TruffleShuffle]

Yes... apparently he can also be blamed for the Titanic, Hindenburg, UN Food for Oil scandal, the faulty intelligence that caused the asinine war in Iraq, urban plight, global warming, deforestation and overpopulation as well. World War II and Vietnam may well have been his fault, too.

 

Starting Hollandsworth over Dubois is worse than World War II.

 

No, you've got it all wrong, pinch hitting for Dubois with the guy who pops out of the toilet was worse than WWII. Except I'm only semi-kidding there, that decision was horrendous.

[Dunston_to_Ryno_to_Grace]

***CENSORED MINORITY OPINION!!!*** Edited May 6, 2005 by Dunston_to_Ryno_to_Grace