Cubs (Taillon) vs Reds (Spiers): 7/29/24, 6:10pm

[Brock Beauchamp]

[Bertz]

They don't have to directly impact each other, but my assumption is if Taillon actually ends up making this start he's staying.  

[sweetpeteman]

26 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

7/29/31

 

 

Oh horsefeathers I've been in a coma for 7 years!

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 minute ago, Bertz said:

They don't have to directly impact each other, but my assumption is if Taillon actually ends up making this start he's staying.  

Yeah I don't think he needs to prove anything more. If I'm Jed and my mind is leaning toward sell I'm scratching him and not even risking injury. 

[Outshined_One]

Just now, Bertz said:

They don't have to directly impact each other, but my assumption is if Taillon actually ends up making this start he's staying.  

I can see the argument for keeping him through the end of the season.  The SP depth on this team isn't particularly great at the moment due to injuries.  It's not like anyone is banging down the door at AA/AAA right now, so trading him basically results in an automatic bullpen day in his slot.  From the murmurings we've heard around him, it doesn't sound like the proposed returns have been particularly great.

That being said, I can see the Cubs trading him in the offseason, especially if Horton and Wicks return from injury in August/September and pitch to expected form.

[KCCub]

Good chance Montas is gone before tomorrow's start as well. Might get lucky and get a BP day from them. 

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

I can see the argument for keeping him through the end of the season.  The SP depth on this team isn't particularly great at the moment due to injuries.  It's not like anyone is banging down the door at AA/AAA right now, so trading him basically results in an automatic bullpen day in his slot.  From the murmurings we've heard around him, it doesn't sound like the proposed returns have been particularly great.

That being said, I can see the Cubs trading him in the offseason, especially if Horton and Wicks return from injury in August/September and pitch to expected form.

If they would trade him after the season the return would be even less than now. So why not now. Doesn’t really matter who takes his spot in the rotation this year. They are not competing anyway. If the goal is to be better in 25’ then trading him now for a better prospect than what you would get next year is a better option. I don’t have an issue not trading him. But if they don’t do it now, I doubt they do it in the off season. And if they do, Jed messed up. Because now he would get more. 

[WhyCantWeWin]

#SCRATCHWATCH 

[Derwood]

12 minutes ago, sweetpeteman said:

 

 

Oh horsefeathers I've been in a coma for 7 years!

lucky

[squally1313]

Trying to get creative on a possible Taillon trade that doesn't set us back going into next year. It doesn't make sense to me that we'd be able to get back the type of pitching that would be ready to replace his production going into next year because the implication that they aren't ready now but will somehow be ready after like 8 more minor league starts the rest of this year falls a little flat. But wondering if there are some more elite arms that are injured/out for the year that could be available from teams wanting to push all their chips in this year. I started with the Orioles and looked at someone like Kyle Bradish, who had TJ last month, but he won't be ready until the second half next year. Is there anything to this idea or should we just ignore me?

[Bertz]

16 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

I can see the argument for keeping him through the end of the season.  The SP depth on this team isn't particularly great at the moment due to injuries.  It's not like anyone is banging down the door at AA/AAA right now, so trading him basically results in an automatic bullpen day in his slot.  From the murmurings we've heard around him, it doesn't sound like the proposed returns have been particularly great.

That being said, I can see the Cubs trading him in the offseason, especially if Horton and Wicks return from injury in August/September and pitch to expected form.

If you'd trade him in December I see no reason not to trade him now.  There are always Julio Teheran's floating around to be had and keep the spot warm.  And hopefully we're not too far off from the kids coming back and one of them taking his slot.

[Brock Beauchamp]

21 minutes ago, sweetpeteman said:

Oh horsefeathers I've been in a coma for 7 years!

[Tryptamine]

13 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Trying to get creative on a possible Taillon trade that doesn't set us back going into next year. It doesn't make sense to me that we'd be able to get back the type of pitching that would be ready to replace his production going into next year because the implication that they aren't ready now but will somehow be ready after like 8 more minor league starts the rest of this year falls a little flat. But wondering if there are some more elite arms that are injured/out for the year that could be available from teams wanting to push all their chips in this year. I started with the Orioles and looked at someone like Kyle Bradish, who had TJ last month, but he won't be ready until the second half next year. Is there anything to this idea or should we just ignore me?

Orioles definitely wouldn't move Bradish especially since they're already almost definitely going to lose Burnes. At that point their rotation would be Grayson Rodriguez/Eflin/Taillon and a lot of question marks in 2025.

[Derwood]

B-b-b-b-black out!

[Outshined_One]

6 minutes ago, Bertz said:

If you'd trade him in December I see no reason not to trade him now.  There are always Julio Teheran's floating around to be had and keep the spot warm.  And hopefully we're not too far off from the kids coming back and one of them taking his slot.

Mostly for trade market purposes; I think the Cubs might have better luck moving him in the offseason if teams like the Giants and Tigers were looking to add a veteran to their rotation when they're retooling for 2025.  It doesn't seem like there are many buyers at the moment, even though more teams are competing for a playoff spot.

[Tryptamine]

9 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

Mostly for trade market purposes; I think the Cubs might have better luck moving him in the offseason if teams like the Giants and Tigers were looking to add a veteran to their rotation when they're retooling for 2025.  It doesn't seem like there are many buyers at the moment, even though more teams are competing for a playoff spot.

From what I've read it's kind of the opposite. The asking prices are very high because of all the buyers, but they're high to the point people are wavering about pulling the trigger.

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

Mostly for trade market purposes; I think the Cubs might have better luck moving him in the offseason if teams like the Giants and Tigers were looking to add a veteran to their rotation when they're retooling for 2025.  It doesn't seem like there are many buyers at the moment, even though more teams are competing for a playoff spot.

But there really is no reason to trade him next year. It makes sense to move him now. If no one is interested now, why would they be interested next year? 

[KCCub]

23 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Trying to get creative on a possible Taillon trade that doesn't set us back going into next year. It doesn't make sense to me that we'd be able to get back the type of pitching that would be ready to replace his production going into next year because the implication that they aren't ready now but will somehow be ready after like 8 more minor league starts the rest of this year falls a little flat. But wondering if there are some more elite arms that are injured/out for the year that could be available from teams wanting to push all their chips in this year. I started with the Orioles and looked at someone like Kyle Bradish, who had TJ last month, but he won't be ready until the second half next year. Is there anything to this idea or should we just ignore me?

Seems like the Dodgers would be the best trade partner in that scenario. They have a plethera of young, injured arms. They already have the upper end SP, they need someone who can reliably eat innings. However, not sure which arm we would target and what else we might have to send depending on which arm it is. 

In a similar vein, I mentioned awhile back that we should kick the tires on Alcantara this offseason if we are moving Jamo this deadline. 

[squally1313]

12 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Orioles definitely wouldn't move Bradish especially since they're already almost definitely going to lose Burnes. At that point their rotation would be Grayson Rodriguez/Eflin/Taillon and a lot of question marks in 2025.

Bradish was a pipe dream with his production, but feel like most of these contending teams have a guy on the shelf rehabbing for next year that has evidence of major league production. Giolito in Boston, Kyle Wright in KC, Houston has Garcia/Javier/McCullers/Urquidy, Strider is probably a pipe dream, Senga could be fun, Gasser and Woodruff in Milwaukee, Buehler/Gonsolin/May in LA, Musgrove in SD. Probably missing a lot of nuance there, but a different set of options to target. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

28 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Trying to get creative on a possible Taillon trade that doesn't set us back going into next year. It doesn't make sense to me that we'd be able to get back the type of pitching that would be ready to replace his production going into next year because the implication that they aren't ready now but will somehow be ready after like 8 more minor league starts the rest of this year falls a little flat. But wondering if there are some more elite arms that are injured/out for the year that could be available from teams wanting to push all their chips in this year. I started with the Orioles and looked at someone like Kyle Bradish, who had TJ last month, but he won't be ready until the second half next year. Is there anything to this idea or should we just ignore me?

No I think it's very fair as a concept, it's just another variant of trading today's production for tomorrow, it's just tomorrow has a different shape.  

 

The Dodgers are probably the best match for something like this because they have 37 pitchers on the IL for various reasons.  For example, Gonsolin doesn't offer a ton to dream on but very real possibility he's on par with 2025 Taillon next year.  Maybe Emmet Sheehan for a more Wesneski-esque addition?

Other guys who you can at least squint and see the match even if it's not probable: Luis Garcia on the Astros, and Garrett Whitlock on the Red Sox

 

[WhyCantWeWin]

7 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

- Cubs trade for 25 YO AS at the weakest everyday position at the roster

- Cubs fans continue speculating on trading starters like Hoerner and Taillon, insist the trade for the 25 YO AS at the weakest 2024 spot is about 2025+

I tell you science needs to study the Cubs fanbase. Fascinating, truly…Like if I was mega wealthy and wanted to live in a part of the world that would not resist my terror, bend the knee and let me move mountains to get what I want at all cost to them - I know where I’d go. Like there’s submissive populations, no doubt, but this a whole other level 

edit: Ftr I don’t think they ever move Taillon. When it comes to the actual point of all this, winning, there’s no good Taillon move available nor will there be. If I’m wrong I’ll eat a pint of cannoli or black raspberry IC 

Are you saying this move means they are going all in for 2024?

[Irrelevant Dude]

1 minute ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Are you saying this move means they are going all in for 2024?

Never tell Jed the odds!

[Irrelevant Dude]

1 minute ago, TomtheBombadil said:

I don’t think like this is, don’t understand how anyone can. Not only is it unnecessarily dramatic (Disney baby think I call it) and simple but, like so much about this society that people choose to prop up, it doesn’t actually exist. It’s not a real thing or way, the Cubs are in no real danger and never have been 

ChatGPT, translate this for me.

[squally1313]

I think he's trying to get away from this binary of 'We are leveraging future assets in a desperate playoff push that will be decided in the next 6-8 weeks' and 'Get rid of everything that isn't nailed down immediately for Prospect and Draft Position purposes'. You can just....be comfortable with the state of the organization going forward and find value on both sides of the aisle. Seems like Jed is approaching it the same way. Obviously Tom said it in his Tom way and kept his Disney streak alive, but the general sentiment is fine. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Passan made the point well in the aftermath of the trade yesterday

Quote

Just because the Cubs are considering moving players from this current roster doesn’t mean they’re selling. Just as because they acquired Isaac Paredes doesn’t mean they’re buying. Modern baseball is a game about opportunity — the furthest thing from a binary. It is a fundamental tenet to understand how teams operate and what motivates them. There can be buyers and sellers, yes, but ultimately teams view themselves as value gatherers, and the only question is whether they’re gathering that value for today or down the road.