Cubs offseason chit chat...

[thawv]

29 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

From any pitching leaderboard, click the 'Pitch modeling' , then Stuff+ will be one of the options if it's not the first one defaulted to.

Thank you!

[squally1313]

16 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

How exactly did they exceed expectations? 

Zips had them as a 78 win team, Pecota had them as a 75 (was 77 until it updated for Seiya's spring injury) win team, 

[squally1313]

9 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

I've come around on the notion that 90% of slap fights around here tend to resolve themselves once everyone sobers up.

I'm much sadder in that I usually stay away I'm drinking and if you see me on here late at night it's almost definitely because I'm swamped with work, angry about that, and using this to procrastinate even more. 

[CubinNY]

6 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Zips had them as a 78 win team, Pecota had them as a 75 (was 77 until it updated for Seiya's spring injury) win team, 

those projections are not accurate to that degree and you know that. Anyway, who cares? We just have to wait and see what happens. 

[Rcal10]

I think there is overreaction both ways. There is definitely a lot of complaining about the FO before things have been completed. But there is also an overreaction by some to defend Jed or to suggest a person is wrong for feeling how they feel. This happened to me a few days ago when I posted by views on how the off season would end up. I was accused of freaking out and told I need a break. Later I was told I am always coming in to post negative comments. Which, frankly, is not true. I have defended Jed and the FO plenty. I was probably one of only a few who thought he did a decent job last year and, in fact, left PSD for a bit because of so much negative talk. What people need to realize is it is ok to bitch about the team. That doesn’t mean you are some sort of an idiot who only wants to bash the FO. This site is for discussion. Someone’s belief of what is going on is discussion. Yes, not every thing that happens means Jed is an idiot. I, who was called negative, have already defended Jed not getting the Japanese relief pitcher. Put I don’t think people who get mad about it are wrong. It is their feeling at that moment. The discussion can be to agree or disagree not attack someone for posting. And, maybe people can settle down a little on everything being negative.

[LBiittner]

11 hours ago, 17 Seconds said:

we've done this a million times, but I'll do it one last time. you have every right to be mad at the cubs. we all are. the ricketts suck. jed is operating like a small market gm. the cubs are a disgrace in many ways. nobody is defending any of that. the annoying stuff is the reactionary nonsense and the pouty assumption that nothing will happen this offseason. 

for example, when a japanese reliever signs for pennies, the logical reaction would be "wow, teams must not think he's good", not "wow, the padres schooled everyone, jed must be asleep still lolllll".

but I'll bow out of this thread again

One LAST time.

Me thinks you can't.

Clock ticking ............

[Brian707]

I saw a big thread jump since last night and thought Jed actually did something.

 

[squally1313]

12 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I think there is overreaction both ways. There is definitely a lot of complaining about the FO before things have been completed. But there is also an overreaction by some to defend Jed or to suggest a person is wrong for feeling how they feel. This happened to me a few days ago when I posted by views on how the off season would end up. I was accused of freaking out and told I need a break. Later I was told I am always coming in to post negative comments. Which, frankly, is not true. I have defended Jed and the FO plenty. I was probably one of only a few who thought he did a decent job last year and, in fact, left PSD for a bit because of so much negative talk. What people need to realize is it is ok to bitch about the team. That doesn’t mean you are some sort of an idiot who only wants to bash the FO. This site is for discussion. Someone’s belief of what is going on is discussion. Yes, not every thing that happens means Jed is an idiot. I, who was called negative, have already defended Jed not getting the Japanese relief pitcher. Put I don’t think people who get mad about it are wrong. It is their feeling at that moment. The discussion can be to agree or disagree not attack someone for posting. And, maybe people can settle down a little on everything being negative.

If you're still stuck on the breather/break thing, apologies. All I was doing was saying that I thought your particular opinion there was bad, which I think is fully in bounds in a message board/discussion setting. I'm not sitting here responding to every one of your posts with some sort of attack. But you posting your opinions and then me posting the opposite opinion without any sort of interaction isn't a discussion. I'll try to focus my responses on the content and limit the snarkiness, but if people disagree with my takes I'd rather they call me out on it than just ignore me. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting here. 

Edit: And apologies to everyone for being a major contributor in bogging down this thread. I, maybe sadly, think there's value in these kind of discussions, but probably don't belong here. Will leave it alone after this. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by squally1313

[pitchcs]

12 hours ago, ToolDRT said:

I really don’t think anyone is “upset”. Honestly, you seem the most angry tonight. The rest of us are bored and mocking the disappointing offseason we’ve had thus far. I mean, I said “two year deals are saved for Tucker Barnhart” when we signed Dansby for 7 last year. Some of this you have to take as tongue in cheek. 

It's just obnoxious at this point; who's had a non-disappointing offseason other than the Dodgers?

[LBiittner]

5 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I think there is overreaction both ways. There is definitely a lot of complaining about the FO before things have been completed. But there is also an overreaction by some to defend Jed or to suggest a person is wrong for feeling how they feel. This happened to me a few days ago when I posted by views on how the off season would end up. I was accused of freaking out and told I need a break. Later I was told I am always coming in to post negative comments. Which, frankly, is not true. I have defended Jed and the FO plenty. I was probably one of only a few who thought he did a decent job last year and, in fact, left PSD for a bit because of so much negative talk. What people need to realize is it is ok to bitch about the team. That doesn’t mean you are some sort of an idiot who only wants to bash the FO. This site is for discussion. Someone’s belief of what is going on is discussion. Yes, not every thing that happens means Jed is an idiot. I, who was called negative, have already defended Jed not getting the Japanese relief pitcher. Put I don’t think people who get mad about it are wrong. It is their feeling at that moment. The discussion can be to agree or disagree not attack someone for posting. And, maybe people can settle down a little on everything being negative.

Rcal, nice post.

For me, I'm retired. Fishing and boating season is over til spring. I drink coffee, watch HotSove, have brunch, take an afternoon nap, go out and feed the deer and fill the bird feeder. AND  scour the net for cub tidbits. I'm hungry for cub news. Just an old man's pleasure. RETIREMENT is wonderful

[ToolDRT]

3 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Would I rather have a dead board or a board where people used every minor signing as an excuse to trash the Cubs, the team we are supposedly fans of? Man, such tempting options with apparently no other path. 
 

i keep thinking about this narrative that the cubs have this theoretical limit, and how the most recent example is last offseason, where they, to fit that narrative, cheaped out on the shortstop market…as if Dansby didn’t go out and put up the best season out of all those options. And somehow that isn’t a good thing.
 

Jed put together a team last year that exceeded projections, that by advanced metrics played like a 90 win team, and we’re still currently in a position where there’s about a dozen paths to opening the year as the division favorite with a top five farm system. Which in my mind is not bad? But it’s not the dodgers, so apparently the whole thing is broken. 

If you want to be the fan that defends the inept front office and cheap ownership at every move be my guest. I’m sure you’re exactly the type of fan the cubs love. Just don’t expect everyone to drink the kool-aid with you. Once you realize you have no say as to what people post here I think you’ll be much happier. 

[mul21]

I think the point is we don't need to bemoan every little move made as if Jed is sitting on his hands.  Rehashing the inactivity is unproductive and annoying, especially when it's related to a guy who wasn't a fit for the roster.  Bitching just to bitch is dumb.

[ToolDRT]

58 minutes ago, pitchcs said:

It's just obnoxious at this point; who's had a non-disappointing offseason other than the Dodgers?

Yankees. Giants. I like Sonny Gray so I thought that was a decent move for the cards (though their other moves sucked). Phillies locked up Nola. As I’ve said before, it’s not even the lack of moves that are alarming from the cubs. Stuff happens and sometimes there’s little movement into January. The alarming part is the leaks the last two years about how we value players, and always seem to be waiting for a players market to crash. You can’t act like that when your only advantage is that you can outspend the small market teams. 
 

Again, it’s a cubs forum. You can’t police or dictate what people post. Why that’s so upsetting to some of you, I don’t know. But for the sake of keeping the board a dignified place, it would probably be better if you just ignored the posters you disagree with.  

[ToolDRT]

1 minute ago, mul21 said:

I think the point is we don't need to bemoan every little move made as if Jed is sitting on his hands.  Rehashing the inactivity is unproductive and annoying, especially when it's related to a guy who wasn't a fit for the roster.  Bitching just to bitch is dumb.

Again though (and I’m not trying to be confrontational or rude here at all) isn’t “bitching” about what someone else is “bitching” about the same thing? It’s a really weird hill to die on. Especially when people have valid complaints about the way this team is put together. 

[squally1313]

3 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

 

Again, it’s a cubs forum. You can’t police or dictate what people post. Why that’s so upsetting to some of you, I don’t know. But for the sake of keeping the board a dignified place, it would probably be better if you just ignored the posters you disagree with.  

No one is policing anything. People are criticizing your posts. 

[Bertz]

 

[Tryptamine]

A month ago I never would have guessed we'd get to Christmas without any type of ml roster related move. On it's own that's a long wait for a move, but add in the surge of expectations following signing Counsel and it makes it feel much worse.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

1 minute ago, ToolDRT said:

Again, it’s a cubs forum. You can’t police or dictate what people post. Why that’s so upsetting to some of you, I don’t know. But for the sake of keeping the board a dignified place, it would probably be better if you just ignored the posters you disagree with.  

People are allowed to disagree and even say that posts or patterns of posts are irritating, there is no right to post whatever you want about the Cubs and have people not respond if it bothers them.  To use an extreme example, if I made 1000 word posts in every thread that connected the current topic to a random Cub from the 90s, people would say "hey that's weird and distracting" and "why do you know so much about Steve Trachsel's hairline" even though it is a Cubs forum and I'm posting about the Cubs.  There are limits to this, but in terms of last night's kerfluffle there's only one side of the argument that approached/crossed that line and it wasn't those saying things similar to Squally.

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

Rcal, nice post.

For me, I'm retired. Fishing and boating season is over til spring. I drink coffee, watch HotSove, have brunch, take an afternoon nap, go out and feed the deer and fill the bird feeder. AND  scour the net for cub tidbits. I'm hungry for cub news. Just an old man's pleasure. RETIREMENT is wonderful

I am retired as well. So I agree, it is awesome. I come here to talk Cubs, not argue. 

[ToolDRT]

6 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

People are allowed to disagree and even say that posts or patterns of posts are irritating, there is no right to post whatever you want about the Cubs and have people not respond if it bothers them.  To use an extreme example, if I made 1000 word posts in every thread that connected the current topic to a random Cub from the 90s, people would say "hey that's weird and distracting" and "why do you know so much about Steve Trachsel's hairline" even though it is a Cubs forum and I'm posting about the Cubs.  There are limits to this, but in terms of last night's kerfluffle there's only one side of the argument that approached/crossed that line and it wasn't those saying things similar to Squally.

But what im posting isn’t off-topic as your example certainly would be. People can react to my posts how ever they want, but it’s fruitless because every time the cubs miss on a player, or “wait the market” out to a level I disagree with, I’m going to respond if I’m irritated. It’s my right. And it just is what it is. As for last night, I agree I probably went too far. But people on here have been very, very rude for about three weeks. 17 seconds in particular seems to pop in, take a shot at someone, and then disappear. Examine his post history for countless examples of this. 

[ToolDRT]

14 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

No one is policing anything. People are criticizing your posts. 

But again, what’s the point? I’m not swearing. I’m not singling people out. I’m posting my thoughts about the cubs on a cubs forum. 

[LBiittner]

Could lucas giolito be someone who could interest us? With the Cubs pitching lab, and the magic that is hottovy, he could be worth an investment to reclaim whatever he lost

[ToolDRT]

Each day that passes I get more surprised Hoskins hasn’t signed yet. Leaves me wondering if there really is something to the potential multi-player deal with the Guardians. Hoskins would have to have a pretty specific market, I can’t think he’s waiting on the other bats to sign. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

9 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

But what im posting isn’t off-topic as your example certainly would be. People can react to my posts how ever they want, but it’s fruitless because every time the cubs miss on a player, or “wait the market” out to a level I disagree with, I’m going to respond if I’m irritated. It’s my right. And it just is what it is. As for last night, I agree I probably went too far. But people on here have been very, very rude for about three weeks. 17 seconds in particular seems to pop in, take a shot at someone, and then disappear. Examine his post history for countless examples of this. 

My man you do not have the right to make everyone miserable with your posts as long as they're responding to the topic, that's not how this works.  I'm not saying that's what's happening here specifically, as clearly there are diversity of feelings about the tenor of the offseason.  But to be very clear, there is not some inalienable right to react when you're irritated or absence of responsibility to productively contribute to the conversation.

[Bertz]

5 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

Could lucas giolito be someone who could interest us? With the Cubs pitching lab, and the magic that is hottovy, he could be worth an investment to reclaim whatever he lost

Probably not?  He's likely looking at Taillon money, and I think that puts him in a weird middle area the Cubs likely won't be shopping in.  It seems like they are going to look at the guys a tier up from that (Montgomery/Imanaga/Snell) and/or guys who can be had on one year deals (Bieber via trade, maybe someone like James Paxton or Sean Manaea in FA?).

With their cadre of young pitching, the Cubs are in a position to bring in legitimate impact or short term guys who won't block anyone.  I think from what Jed and Carter have said in between will largely be off the table.