Bulls '21-'22 Season Thread

[UMFan83]

The Bulls have lost by 15+ points in 11 of their last 22 games. Literally half the games the Bulls have played over the last 2 months have been a 15+ point blowout

[We Got The Whole 9]

This was a seriously sad home set. Those guys should be ashamed.

[gflore34]

The strategy of leaving the collection of Bucks' schmoes - Allen, Portis, Mathews, et. al.- open while trying to make Giannis give up the ball hasn't worked too well there Billy. Sure, Allen, etc. horsefeathering suck but, they can and will make open uncontested shots, maybe, someone should tell Billy. I'm not advocating the Bulls had a chance however, I would have liked to see a different approach especially after game 3.

[ChiCubsFan]

at least the middleton injury means people won't whine about lonzo's absence being responsible for this disaster. hopefully the FO doesn't use it as an excuse either. we need big changes.

 

Lonzo means way more to the Bulls than Middleton does to the Bucks.

 

What big changes do you propose?

[Old Style]

I think Vooch needs to go. He’s way overpaid for what he gives you. Coby has been a big disappointment to me as well. We need to add some size to match up with guys like Giannis & Embiid but we also need more shooting off the bench. Seems like the Bucks always have at least 3 guys on the floor at all times that can drain a 3. Having Lonzo out there helps in numerous ways but more firepower off the bench is absolutely necessary. PWill still has plenty of room for improvement. He’s only 20 and missed most of his second season in the league. Ayo should continue to improve as well.

[17 Seconds]

at least the middleton injury means people won't whine about lonzo's absence being responsible for this disaster. hopefully the FO doesn't use it as an excuse either. we need big changes.

 

Lonzo means way more to the Bulls than Middleton does to the Bucks.

 

What big changes do you propose?

 

middleton is better than lonzo. the fact that the bulls are so thin that lonzo might "mean more" is not a credit to the team

 

i already said i want to either blow it up or move one of zach/demar. this core is never getting remotely close to a championship.

[Old Style]

at least the middleton injury means people won't whine about lonzo's absence being responsible for this disaster. hopefully the FO doesn't use it as an excuse either. we need big changes.

 

Lonzo means way more to the Bulls than Middleton does to the Bucks.

 

What big changes do you propose?

 

middleton is better than lonzo. the fact that the bulls are so thin that lonzo might "mean more" is not a credit to the team

 

i already said i want to either blow it up or move one of zach/demar. this core is never getting remotely close to a championship.

We finally get back to the playoffs and have plenty of very good young pieces and you want to blow it up? I agree that we need to upgrade the roster in a few places but blowing it up seems completely unnecessary and idiotic to me.

[UMFan83]

at least the middleton injury means people won't whine about lonzo's absence being responsible for this disaster. hopefully the FO doesn't use it as an excuse either. we need big changes.

 

Lonzo means way more to the Bulls than Middleton does to the Bucks.

 

What big changes do you propose?

 

middleton is better than lonzo. the fact that the bulls are so thin that lonzo might "mean more" is not a credit to the team

 

i already said i want to either blow it up or move one of zach/demar. this core is never getting remotely close to a championship.

 

i don't think blowing it up and tanking is the right way to go about it anymore. We did it for 4 years and we ended up with Patrick Williams and Coby White. AKME is not GarPax but there's no guarantee that we don't end up back in the wilderness for another 4 years. I think it would be better to continue to build off what we have now and create a winning culture. If we're smart about trades we may be able to attract that superstar. Yes it won't be easy since it seems like Chicago is just not a premiere destination at all (we were DeMar's 4th choice after both LA teams and the Knicks for instance), but building a team with a good foundation and winning 45-50 games each year will help. Zach is well-liked around the league too. As is DeMar but he's probably not in the long term picture beyond this contract.

 

What would not help our perception around the league is trading away DeMar after an all-NBA season and/or failing to resign Zach after he outplayed his previous contract. The Bulls still have a perception around the league of being cheapasses (and rightfully so) but there's been enough change in the organization that you can alter the perception.

[raw]

I don't have any particulars in mind, but here's basically what I would try to do if I'm AK.

 

- Trade Vucevic- he has some value as an expiring deal and as a guy that can be a primary scorer. He looked much better as a 1-2 option instead of a 3rd option this year.

 

- Trade Coby- obviously, he has some value as a scorer if someone can afford to play him off the ball with a strong PG.

 

- Max deal LaVine- no-brainer to me. DeRozan isn't going anywhere in 2022-23, but he also isn't a spring chicken, this is Zach's team. Hopefully at full health next season he can get back to the early season version of himself.

 

Between Vuc, Coby and the 18th pick, I'd hope to get 2 bigs and a wing. A true C to start, who is a defensive guy who protects the rim on D and dives to the rim on offense, don't have to run plays for him (Andre Drummond type). A big forward/small ball C, who can come off the bench and present a matchup problem with his ability to knock down open 3s (Maxi Kleber, Christian Wood type). A veteran G/F who can shoot, prioritize a guy that can run point if possible, but most importantly, a guy that can knock down 3s at a very high clip (Patty Mills or Malik Monk type).

 

PG- Ball

SG- LaVine

SF- DeRozan

PF- Williams

[highlight=yellow]C- Drummond[/highlight]

Bench-

G- Caruso

G- Dosunmu

[highlight=yellow]G- Mills[/highlight]

F- Green

[highlight=yellow]F/C- Kleber[/highlight]

 

Maybe not Drummond specifically, but I can't think of any other names off top of my head.

[WrigleyField 22]

One of the hard things about trading vooch, IMO, is its basically gonna be impossible to find a better individual rebounder who really upgrades the D too. He is nearly a top 10 rebound rate guy and top 8 in total rebounds per game. They're already a very weak rebounding team. How do you take away a top 10 individual rebounder and improve your total team rebounding rate?

 

They played small without Williams most of the year, but he isn't a huge presence there either.

 

If you're pretty locked into a wing core of DeRozon, Lavine, Ball, Caruso, and plan to depart with Vooch, I feel like PWill needs to be on table to upgrade that one PF/C spot as much as possible.

[ChiCubsFan]

I don't have any particulars in mind, but here's basically what I would try to do if I'm AK.

 

- Trade Vucevic- he has some value as an expiring deal and as a guy that can be a primary scorer. He looked much better as a 1-2 option instead of a 3rd option this year.

 

- Trade Coby- obviously, he has some value as a scorer if someone can afford to play him off the ball with a strong PG.

 

- Max deal LaVine- no-brainer to me. DeRozan isn't going anywhere in 2022-23, but he also isn't a spring chicken, this is Zach's team. Hopefully at full health next season he can get back to the early season version of himself.

 

Between Vuc, Coby and the 18th pick, I'd hope to get 2 bigs and a wing. A true C to start, who is a defensive guy who protects the rim on D and dives to the rim on offense, don't have to run plays for him (Andre Drummond type). A big forward/small ball C, who can come off the bench and present a matchup problem with his ability to knock down open 3s (Maxi Kleber, Christian Wood type). A veteran G/F who can shoot, prioritize a guy that can run point if possible, but most importantly, a guy that can knock down 3s at a very high clip (Patty Mills or Malik Monk type).

 

PG- Ball

SG- LaVine

SF- DeRozan

PF- Williams

[highlight=yellow]C- Drummond[/highlight]

Bench-

G- Caruso

G- Dosunmu

[highlight=yellow]G- Mills[/highlight]

F- Green

[highlight=yellow]F/C- Kleber[/highlight]

 

Maybe not Drummond specifically, but I can't think of any other names off top of my head.

 

I like this idea. Jusuf Nurkic is a free agent. Sign and trade for Vuc with spare parts moving around? Not sure who else is out there that could replace Vuc’s rebounding and provide an upgrade defensively. Also wouldn’t mind Drummond in a backup role, but I’d be hesitant relying on him as the primary big.

[WrigleyField 22]

I don't have any particulars in mind, but here's basically what I would try to do if I'm AK.

 

- Trade Vucevic- he has some value as an expiring deal and as a guy that can be a primary scorer. He looked much better as a 1-2 option instead of a 3rd option this year.

 

- Trade Coby- obviously, he has some value as a scorer if someone can afford to play him off the ball with a strong PG.

 

- Max deal LaVine- no-brainer to me. DeRozan isn't going anywhere in 2022-23, but he also isn't a spring chicken, this is Zach's team. Hopefully at full health next season he can get back to the early season version of himself.

 

Between Vuc, Coby and the 18th pick, I'd hope to get 2 bigs and a wing. A true C to start, who is a defensive guy who protects the rim on D and dives to the rim on offense, don't have to run plays for him (Andre Drummond type). A big forward/small ball C, who can come off the bench and present a matchup problem with his ability to knock down open 3s (Maxi Kleber, Christian Wood type). A veteran G/F who can shoot, prioritize a guy that can run point if possible, but most importantly, a guy that can knock down 3s at a very high clip (Patty Mills or Malik Monk type).

 

PG- Ball

SG- LaVine

SF- DeRozan

PF- Williams

[highlight=yellow]C- Drummond[/highlight]

Bench-

G- Caruso

G- Dosunmu

[highlight=yellow]G- Mills[/highlight]

F- Green

[highlight=yellow]F/C- Kleber[/highlight]

 

Maybe not Drummond specifically, but I can't think of any other names off top of my head.

 

I like this idea. Jusuf Nurkic is a free agent. Sign and trade for Vuc with spare parts moving around? Not sure who else is out there that could replace Vuc’s rebounding and provide an upgrade defensively. Also wouldn’t mind Drummond in a backup role, but I’d be hesitant relying on him as the primary big.

He's one of the few that wouldn't be a rebound downgrade. Younger. Doesn't have a 3 pt game. Not really a D upgrade right?

[raw]

One of the hard things about trading vooch, IMO, is its basically gonna be impossible to find a better individual rebounder who really upgrades the D too. He is nearly a top 10 rebound rate guy and top 8 in total rebounds per game. They're already a very weak rebounding team. How do you take away a top 10 individual rebounder and improve your total team rebounding rate?

 

They played small without Williams most of the year, but he isn't a huge presence there either.

 

If you're pretty locked into a wing core of DeRozon, Lavine, Ball, Caruso, and plan to depart with Vooch, I feel like PWill needs to be on table to upgrade that one PF/C spot as much as possible.

 

Yeah, he's definitely on the table. The issue I have with trading PWill is that it will be hard to get good value and a good fit for him. Like Jerami Grant was talked about as a trade target, but he's probably not a guy that would settle for being 3rd/4th fiddle. So, you'd be essentially looking for a PF who is a taller, better rebounding, more aggressive version of PWill, while also being OK with being a role player for a player in PWill who does have some star potential. Seems like it would be easier to get Williams more comfortable in his role and to take that next step.

[UMFan83]

Not that we expected to win but LOL. This is the 3rd time I think that he's been in the protocol

 

[Old Style]

Fitting end to this season, I guess. Didn't have the full roster for a single game.

[Andy]

I'm not sure there's ever been a sports season that you would have to call a success that nevertheless featured more terrible luck with player availability.

[Old Style]

 

Oh for fucks sake

[raw]

I wonder how well the same exact Bulls team, but with just normal injury/health luck would do next season.

 

- Everyone on the team has gone into Covid protocols at least once

- Ball missed 47 games + playoffs

- Caruso missed 41 games + potential 1 1/2 playoff games

- White missed first month of season (20 games)

- Williams missed 65 games

- LaVine only missed 15 games, but played at least 60 games less than 100% w/ a damage thumb, when that healed got Covid, when that got better had back and knee injuries. Miss final playoff game.

- Jones Jr. missed 25 games

[UMFan83]

I wonder how well the same exact Bulls team, but with just normal injury/health luck would do next season.

 

- Everyone on the team has gone into Covid protocols at least once

- Ball missed 47 games + playoffs

- Caruso missed 41 games + potential 1 1/2 playoff games

- White missed first month of season (20 games)

- Williams missed 65 games

- LaVine only missed 15 games, but played at least 60 games less than 100% w/ a damage thumb, when that healed got Covid, when that got better had back and knee injuries. Miss final playoff game.

- Jones Jr. missed 25 games

 

I still think that it would be roster that lacks quality shooters and depth, but it would certainly play better. I have no idea how much Zach's knee injury affected his play in the 2nd half of the season, but clearly his performance dipped. Ball would help in 3 major areas - shooting, playmaking and defense so while he's not as good individually as a Kris Middleton, his impact on the Bulls performance may be greater. Without him the Bulls have stopped pushing the ball as much, DeRozan especially walks it up the court even if they have numbers. The Bulls offense has also devolved into iso heavy, partially because DeRozan is so iso dominant but also because how else will they score with the current roster? It would still be iso heavy but a guy like Ball gets people involved. Another shooter would greatly aid in that too. Now teams can double DeRozan and dare others to beat them, and they don't. If DeRozan cant get his shots off or has a bad shooting day the Bulls are cooked.

 

Finally in terms of depth - the Bulls bench is dead last in just about every offensive category amongst the 16 playoff teams. They have some decent defenders but they can't score worth a damn, especially when Coby's shot is off like it is frequently. They need a microwave type scorer and probably another shooter that's not Matt Thomas.

[raw]

I wonder how well the same exact Bulls team, but with just normal injury/health luck would do next season.

 

- Everyone on the team has gone into Covid protocols at least once

- Ball missed 47 games + playoffs

- Caruso missed 41 games + potential 1 1/2 playoff games

- White missed first month of season (20 games)

- Williams missed 65 games

- LaVine only missed 15 games, but played at least 60 games less than 100% w/ a damage thumb, when that healed got Covid, when that got better had back and knee injuries. Miss final playoff game.

- Jones Jr. missed 25 games

 

I still think that it would be roster that lacks quality shooters and depth, but it would certainly play better. I have no idea how much Zach's knee injury affected his play in the 2nd half of the season, but clearly his performance dipped. Ball would help in 3 major areas - shooting, playmaking and defense so while he's not as good individually as a Kris Middleton, his impact on the Bulls performance may be greater. Without him the Bulls have stopped pushing the ball as much, DeRozan especially walks it up the court even if they have numbers. The Bulls offense has also devolved into iso heavy, partially because DeRozan is so iso dominant but also because how else will they score with the current roster? It would still be iso heavy but a guy like Ball gets people involved. Another shooter would greatly aid in that too. Now teams can double DeRozan and dare others to beat them, and they don't. If DeRozan cant get his shots off or has a bad shooting day the Bulls are cooked.

 

Finally in terms of depth - the Bulls bench is dead last in just about every offensive category amongst the 16 playoff teams. They have some decent defenders but they can't score worth a damn, especially when Coby's shot is off like it is frequently. They need a microwave type scorer and probably another shooter that's not Matt Thomas.

 

Yeah for sure. But it's pretty remarkable they even did as well as they did. Everything went wrong and they still led the conference toward the end of the season. Not that this team 100% healthy is going to win a title, but damn they've been snakebitten

[17 Seconds]

i just think that building around demar and lavine is a fool's errand and the ceiling will be extremely limited. hopefully i'm wrong but i don't think anyone here actually believes we can win a title with those 2 guys as our stars either.

[Old Style]

i just think that building around demar and lavine is a fool's errand and the ceiling will be extremely limited. hopefully i'm wrong but i don't think anyone here actually believes we can win a title with those 2 guys as our stars either.

So Mr. Let's Blow It Up And Start Over Yet Again, how do you propose we build a champion? Amass a bunch of draft picks and hope you hit the HOF lottery drafting the next Jordan/Kobe/Steph? Trade for younger guys you think could be superstars? You're certainly not going to get any quality FA's to come here anytime soon if you blow this roster up so quickly.

[17 Seconds]

i just think that building around demar and lavine is a fool's errand and the ceiling will be extremely limited. hopefully i'm wrong but i don't think anyone here actually believes we can win a title with those 2 guys as our stars either.

So Mr. Let's Blow It Up And Start Over Yet Again, how do you propose we build a champion? Amass a bunch of draft picks and hope you hit the HOF lottery drafting the next Jordan/Kobe/Steph? Trade for younger guys you think could be superstars? You're certainly not going to get any quality FA's to come here anytime soon if you blow this roster up so quickly.

 

i never said i have all the answers. i'm just saying that it's obvious to the basketball world outside of chicago that winning a title with this core is not going to happen. bulls fans are the only ones who have convinced themselves that it's possible. the only reason there is any hype is because of a ridiculously hot start where we won a bunch of close games against bad teams.

 

i'm sick of hearing about injuries. the whole league was battered this year. we were mostly healthy down the stretch and we completely and totally folded. not even competitive. lonzo is a nice player, but he is not making that kind of difference. he's also hurt every year, so stop expecting him to play most of our games.

 

this is a team that got outscored for the season, but we're already talking ourselves into believing that complementary changes and better health are going to vault us into contender status?

 

i will root for this team next season and have fun with whatever wins they get. i also know that it's ultimately going nowhere.

[UMFan83]

i just think that building around demar and lavine is a fool's errand and the ceiling will be extremely limited. hopefully i'm wrong but i don't think anyone here actually believes we can win a title with those 2 guys as our stars either.

 

I think the closest parallel to what the Bulls would be doing if they kept this core together is the Heat. They made a few really nice draft picks later in the draft (Duncan Robinson, Bam, Herro, Strus), signed a player that was seen as just below the tier of the top superstars, and then made some other signings to supplement the rest of the core. Seems like this would be at least somewhat of a parallel to what the Bulls would need to do if they kept LaVine/DeRozan together.

 

Other contenders are here because of tanking (Celtics sort of, Sixers, Suns, Warriors pre-championship years), but the NBA is also littered with teams that have tanked and gotten nowhere. The Bulls before AKME shifted gears, the Kings, Magic, Pistons, Knicks, Wizards, etc. Tanking is so tantalizing because you are one bounce of a lottery ball away from completely turning the franchise around, but you still need a lot of luck. The Bulls tanked for 4 years and ended up with Lauri, Wendell Carter, Coby White and Patrick Williams. They finally got some lotto luck and got the 4th pick in 2020, but it was a year that was only 3 players deep. If they had gotten the 4th pick in previous years they could have ended up with guys like Trae Young, Darius Garland, De'Andre Hunter.

 

I just don't think its a good thing for the organization to go back to that right away after just getting done tanking for 4 seasons. Maybe if we were coming off a long stretch of playoff runs, I'd be ok with it. But stay in the wilderness for too long and you become the Kings.

[WrigleyField 22]

I don't see a dynasty forming, but this is probably the best path for now. In NBA flexibility is key. As long as they can be an attractive destination, you just gotta just be ready to pounce.