New CBA negotiations

[UMFan83]

[Bertz]

 

Apparently those are 3 of the 4 teams that voted nonon Steve Cohen becoming an owner. If you're wondering how this info got out he seems like a safe bet.

[Derwood]

Of course it's the Reds.

[Andy]

MLBPA announced a $1M fund for displaced stadium workers. Jesse Rogers said a fund is also in the works from the league's side. So at least the most-screwed people are going to get some help.

[Sammy Sofa]

Wait, $1 million TOTAL from the PA?

[Rob]

The economics of baseball escape me when it comes to stadium-level stuff. But $1M doesn't seem like it would support very many employees for very long.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The economics of baseball escape me when it comes to stadium-level stuff. But $1M doesn't seem like it would support very many employees for very long.

 

This 2020 article implies there are 35-40k MLB stadium workers: https://www.thenation.com/article/society/baseball-stadium-workers-crisis/

 

The overwhelming majority appear to be gameday staff and likely aren't salaried so if you think of it in the context of lost games(20 games lost = 300 lost stadium gamedays) it's a little better, but even when stacked with a similar amount from MLB it seems unlikely to change anyone's financial situation.

[WrigleyField 22]

The economics of baseball escape me when it comes to stadium-level stuff. But $1M doesn't seem like it would support very many employees for very long.

 

This 2020 article implies there are 35-40k MLB stadium workers: https://www.thenation.com/article/society/baseball-stadium-workers-crisis/

 

The overwhelming majority appear to be gameday staff and likely aren't salaried so if you think of it in the context of lost games(20 games lost = 300 lost stadium gamedays) it's a little better, but even when stacked with a similar amount from MLB it seems unlikely to change anyone's financial situation.

So that's $22 per employee for 20 lost games. So a dollar a game?

 

I would think teams still are paying salaries guys. Like head grounds keeper or roles like that. But doubtful that list will be very extensive.

[Bertz]

 

 

This seemed like the obvious path forward Tuesday morning. It would be very in keeping with these negotiations for the sides to end up here but only after enduring a self inflicted PR disaster first.

[UMFan83]

Really horsefeathering sucks but I always thought they might put 14 team playoff back on the table in exchange for something else.

 

Rob Manfred sucks so badly. I saw someone on twitter suggest this format for a 14 team playoff and I could get behind it:

 

DIV 1 - bye

 

DIV 2 vs. WC4, DIV 3 vs. WC3 - 3 game series, all played at division winner. Wild Card team has to win all 3 to advance

 

WC 1 vs. WC 2 - True best of 3 series, all played at higher seed. Or make it a single winner take all game.

 

Gives a huge advantage to winning the division so maybe we won't just see teams try to win 80 games and sneak into the playoffs. In addition, the top WC teams have more of a chance to make it to the division series so again there's more incentive to win more games to get a better seed.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I could've held my nose at 12 teams but 14 is gonna be tough to take. Since they went to 10 teams, 5th place teams have averaged 90 wins, 6th place 86, and 7th place 84. Some of that might change even without a new format if you address tanking, and the specific 7 team format might help incentivize effort to avoid that 5th-7th area, but 162 games to put half the league into a series of coin flips is not good.

[WrigleyField 22]

At the end of the day I get that playoffs equal more high value revenue, but at some point you reach a diminished return where that is gonna stop being true right?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

At the end of the day I get that playoffs equal more high value revenue, but at some point you reach a diminished return where that is gonna stop being true right?

 

I've seen reporting that 12 teams gets MLB an extra 85 million, and 14 teams gets an additional 15 million on top of that. So owners are going through all of this when their big incentive is less than 4 million/team and the players have already agreed to ~3 million of that incremental revenue.

[Rob]

At the end of the day I get that playoffs equal more high value revenue, but at some point you reach a diminished return where that is gonna stop being true right?

 

Pretty sure this is it, but they haven't realized it yet.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

At the end of the day I get that playoffs equal more high value revenue, but at some point you reach a diminished return where that is gonna stop being true right?

 

I've seen reporting that 12 teams gets MLB an extra 85 million, and 14 teams gets an additional 15 million on top of that. So owners are going through all of this when their big incentive is less than 4 million/team and the players have already agreed to ~3 million of that incremental revenue.

On a related note, I think they should rename the regular season as 'The Playoffs.' And call the playoffs 'The Series of World Series.' And call the World Series "the Real World Series from Amazon.com"

[WrigleyField 22]

At the end of the day I get that playoffs equal more high value revenue, but at some point you reach a diminished return where that is gonna stop being true right?

 

I've seen reporting that 12 teams gets MLB an extra 85 million, and 14 teams gets an additional 15 million on top of that. So owners are going through all of this when their big incentive is less than 4 million/team and the players have already agreed to ~3 million of that incremental revenue.

On a related note, I think they should rename the regular season as 'The Playoffs.' And call the playoffs 'The Series of World Series.' And call the World Series "the Real World Series from Amazon.com"

Unironically, but let's go full Euro basketball where there's the league play and then World Series League of the top 16, but in a 4 game round Robin followed by a 4 team playoff. Expand the league play to include even more teams, maybe with a foreign based league.

 

For the bottom whatever teams they can loan out their veteran players annually to the World Series League and then play a minor league barnstorm schedule with any pre arb player during the WSL (this would be like mid July to Sept?)

 

Throw in a World Baseball Classic semi annually. The World Series will just be a fun little summer classic.

[Bertz]

While the players agreed to a playoff expansion from 10 to 12 teams, they would consider expanding to 14 -- MLB's preferred number -- but only if the three-game wild card series include a unique provision. To incentivize winning a division, the players have proposed using a "game in hand" or "ghost win," in which a division winner in a three-game wild card series would start the series with "a win" and need only one more to advance.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33424267/players-union-preparing-written-response-mlb-last-cba-offer-sources-say

 

Combining this with what we've seen from the other other proposed formats, I assume this is what we'd be looking at?

 

- 1 seed get a bye straight to the DS

- 2 & 3 (other division winners) get HFA and a game in hand; possibly also choose their opponent from 5/6/7

- 4 gets HFA; no game in hand

 

While I'm not a fan of the 14 team playoff, I do think something along these lines does actually provide plenty of good incentive to compete. This wouldn't be an aim for 83 wins scenario.

[CubinNY]

International draft coming very likely.

[Irrelevant Dude]

International draft coming very likely.

That would seem to be a bad thing for the Cubs (and other large market teams), right?

 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[Cubfanintheknow]

What the what?!?

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33438241/sources-mlb-eyes-pitch-clocks-14-seconds-empty-bases-19-seconds-runners-on

 

Nope.

[TarzanJoeWallis]

What the what?!?

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33438241/sources-mlb-eyes-pitch-clocks-14-seconds-empty-bases-19-seconds-runners-on

 

Nope.

Why not?

[Bertz]

I know we reflexively disagree with everything from Manfred, and that's largely been earned, but the pitch clock is a very good idea and limiting the shift is a pretty good idea.

[Cubfanintheknow]

What the what?!?

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33438241/sources-mlb-eyes-pitch-clocks-14-seconds-empty-bases-19-seconds-runners-on

 

Nope.

Why not?

 

Where to start...

 

-What happens on a foul ball?

-More tosses to first to reset the clock to plan strategies

-Umps now have to decide who's at fault for the pitch clock running out (lots of batters take their time too)

-14 seconds seems incredibly short

-other ways to speed the game up (eliminate warm-up pitches for incoming relievers comes to mind immediately, somehow speed up time between batters)

 

For now, just get a new CBA. Quit horsefeathering around with meaningless horsefeathers that right now is just horsefeathering with the player's minds.

 

ETA... I'm not totally opposed to some sort of pitch clock. But right now? No. First things first... let's get players back on the field. I don't think this is the way to do it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What the what?!?

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33438241/sources-mlb-eyes-pitch-clocks-14-seconds-empty-bases-19-seconds-runners-on

 

Nope.

Why not?

 

Where to start...

 

-What happens on a foul ball?

-More tosses to first to reset the clock to plan strategies

-Umps now have to decide who's at fault for the pitch clock running out (lots of batters take their time too)

-14 seconds seems incredibly short

-other ways to speed the game up (eliminate warm-up pitches for incoming relievers comes to mind immediately, somehow speed up time between batters)

 

For now, just get a new CBA. Quit horsefeathering around with meaningless horsefeathers that right now is just horsefeathering with the player's minds.

 

ETA... I'm not totally opposed to some sort of pitch clock. But right now? No. First things first... let's get players back on the field. I don't think this is the way to do it.

 

These are all fairly straight forward and have previously reported contingencies

 

- the clock starts when the pitcher gets the ball

- there's limits on throwing to bases(side benefit, stolen bases are more viable), stepping off, or stepping out of the box

- see above, by enforcing the batter in the box the punishment is on the pitcher

- it is not, amateur baseball does not have this problem and watching it doesn't feel like the game played too fast

- there is no other lever to pull that will have the impact of the pitch clock, things like commercial breaks and warmup pitches pale in comparison

 

The other important thing with the pitch clock is that it isn't creating a brand new pace of baseball. As mentioned above, watch any school age game(though college is getting some trickle down impacts with its professionalization) and it's played at this pace. And unless you're still college aged, games were played at this pace when you grew up with baseball. Grant Brisbee's comparison of a game between 1984 and 2014 remains the seminal example.

 

Time between pitches is the primary villain. I tallied up all the pitches in both games that we’ll call inaction pitches — pitches that resulted in a ball, called strike, or swinging strike, but didn’t result in the end of an at-bat or the advancement of a runner. These are the pitches where the catcher caught the ball and threw it back to the pitcher, whose next step was to throw it back to the catcher. Foul balls didn’t count. The fourth ball of a plate appearance didn’t count. Stolen bases didn’t count. Wild pitches didn’t count. Just the pitches where contact wasn’t made, and the pitcher received a return throw from the catcher.

 

There were 146 inaction pitches in the 1984 game.

 

There were 144 of these pitches in the 2014 game.

 

The total time for the inaction pitches in 1984 — the elapsed time between a pitcher releasing one pitch and his release of the next pitch — was 32 minutes and 47 seconds.

 

The total time for inaction pitches in 2014 was 57 minutes and 41 seconds.

[Bertz]

Why not?

 

Where to start...

 

-What happens on a foul ball?

-More tosses to first to reset the clock to plan strategies

-Umps now have to decide who's at fault for the pitch clock running out (lots of batters take their time too)

-14 seconds seems incredibly short

-other ways to speed the game up (eliminate warm-up pitches for incoming relievers comes to mind immediately, somehow speed up time between batters)

 

For now, just get a new CBA. Quit horsefeathering around with meaningless horsefeathers that right now is just horsefeathering with the player's minds.

 

ETA... I'm not totally opposed to some sort of pitch clock. But right now? No. First things first... let's get players back on the field. I don't think this is the way to do it.

 

These are all fairly straight forward and have previously reported contingencies

 

- the clock starts when the pitcher gets the ball

- there's limits on throwing to bases(side benefit, stolen bases are more viable), stepping off, or stepping out of the box

- see above, by enforcing the batter in the box the punishment is on the pitcher

- it is not, amateur baseball does not have this problem and watching it doesn't feel like the game played too fast

- there is no other lever to pull that will have the impact of the pitch clock, things like commercial breaks and warmup pitches pale in comparison

 

The other important thing with the pitch clock is that it isn't creating a brand new pace of baseball. As mentioned above, watch any school age game(though college is getting some trickle down impacts with its professionalization) and it's played at this pace. And unless you're still college aged, games were played at this pace when you grew up with baseball. Grant Brisbee's comparison of a game between 1984 and 2014 remains the seminal example.

 

Time between pitches is the primary villain. I tallied up all the pitches in both games that we’ll call inaction pitches — pitches that resulted in a ball, called strike, or swinging strike, but didn’t result in the end of an at-bat or the advancement of a runner. These are the pitches where the catcher caught the ball and threw it back to the pitcher, whose next step was to throw it back to the catcher. Foul balls didn’t count. The fourth ball of a plate appearance didn’t count. Stolen bases didn’t count. Wild pitches didn’t count. Just the pitches where contact wasn’t made, and the pitcher received a return throw from the catcher.

 

There were 146 inaction pitches in the 1984 game.

 

There were 144 of these pitches in the 2014 game.

 

The total time for the inaction pitches in 1984 — the elapsed time between a pitcher releasing one pitch and his release of the next pitch — was 32 minutes and 47 seconds.

 

The total time for inaction pitches in 2014 was 57 minutes and 41 seconds.

 

On top of all this stuff, there's evidence that the slower pace of the current game is tied to the increased velocity. So on top of all the other aesthetic benefits for making the change, you might make a good dent in the TTO-ification of the game too.