So...Now What?

[17 Seconds]

i would love javy back if he's getting paid like a 3-win player

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Are we still willing to consider Javy back? I don’t think he’s endearing himself to the Mets even before his injury and the team is quickly sliding out of contention. I could see the Mets not wanting to make a big investment in his during the offseason even with Lindor advocating for him.

 

With Seager, Story and Correa available, hes not likely to be any teams top choice and is likely going to be having teams waiting out his market after the big guys sign. I think there is still mutual interest in Javy coming back, possibly more than Rizzo or Bryant, so the stars could align, assuming we want to go that route over being another team going after the top 3 SS

 

Pro

- Younger than other expensive options(though not younger than Seager or Correa)

- Should be within the team’s ability to spend pretty much no matter what(not as pricey as the other options, no draft pick lost)

- Should be more likely to stick at SS than the others

- Extreme fun/personality

- 80 grade physical tools should avoid too steep a cliff in performance on a long term deal

 

Con

- Below average hitter the last 2 years

- plate discipline has not come around with age and limits the upside for your investment

- already failed to extend him once/bridge could be burned

 

My openness to Javy is a function of what the FA market looks like, and that’s gonna be dependent on the CBA given how many high end guys are there. If the front office isn’t open to paying Seager 200 million but Javy is gonna get half of that outlay? I can get on board with it. It’s unlikely to be my favorite/plan A though, too little upside for the expense and too many other potentially good uses for the money.

[mias_tisg]

I was just thinking, I’m definitely getting MLB The Show 2022 so I can build the Cubs from the ground up.

Should try out Out of the Park Baseball for a team building game. Both are good but OOTP (sim based computer game) is better for rebuilds.

[Outshined_One]

I like the idea of bringing Javy back on a 1-2 year prove it deal, but anything more than that makes me leery.

[jersey cubs fan]

I like the idea of bringing Javy back on a 1-2 year prove it deal, but anything more than that makes me leery.

most definitely

[chopsx9]

Con

- Below average hitter the last 2 years

- plate discipline has not come around with age and limits the upside for your investment

- already failed to extend him once/bridge could be burned

 

I mean he has 2.4 offensive bWar so far this year - missing a moderate amount of time (and he should get a +1 for the Pittsburgh game) I don't think that's below average - I'd almost be more worried about the spots of sloppy defense this year. He teases you every now and then - there was that week and a half where he was walking almost once a game and then he got hurt and then he seemed to revert when he came back. It's like its in there just below the surface. So horsefeathers it I'd bring him back as long as the contract wasn't silly.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Con

- Below average hitter the last 2 years

- plate discipline has not come around with age and limits the upside for your investment

- already failed to extend him once/bridge could be burned

 

I mean he has 2.4 offensive bWar so far this year - missing a moderate amount of time (and he should get a +1 for the Pittsburgh game) I don't think that's below average - I'd almost be more worried about the spots of sloppy defense this year. He teases you every now and then - there was that week and a half where he was walking almost once a game and then he got hurt and then he seemed to revert when he came back. It's like its in there just below the surface. So horsefeathers it I'd bring him back as long as the contract wasn't silly.

 

I was being a bit literal/pedantic, he has a 99 wRC+ this year on the heels of 57 last year. Doesn't make him a bad player, but if he's not clearing 100 wRC+ he's not likely to go above being a 3 win guy.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

E. Javier Baez could play with the Cubs until he retires at 65, and I would cherish every minute of it.

[Derwood]

E. Javier Baez could play with the Cubs until he retires at 65, and I would cherish every minute of it.

 

And still complain about every strikeout (as you should)

[Tim]

My Master Plan - v1.2.0

I'm bored, so let's put out another one of these...

 

Remainder of 2021: (unchanged from v1.1.0)

 

Sit down with Ross and let him know that his job the rest of this year is not to win baseball games. His job the rest of this year is to evaluate players for 2022. That may mean ruffling some veteran feathers. It may mean living with some heartache as inexperienced relievers blow leads.

 

Get playing time for the potentially interesting position players in MLB / at AAA to see what we see. This means that Duffy, Bote, Heyward will need to sit on a regular basis. I'd probably release Duffy to make room on the 40 man to evaluate guys who may have a future with the team.

 

- Happ (can he be fixed again?)

- Wisdom

- Alcantara

- Deichmann

- Schwindel

- Hermosillo

- Rivas

- Fargas

 

Evaluate SP to see how many rotation spots we need to fill. Limit Alzolay's innings and have him working on his changeup & cutter to lefties at every chance.

- Alzolay

- Mills

- Thompson

- Steele

 

Check out options in the bullpen:

- Rodriguez

- Leeper

- Rucker

- Nance

- Morgan

- Megill

- Abbott

- Mekkes

 

Assets going into offseason 2021:

 

Significant players in bold

 

Position Players:

C - Contreras, Higgins

1B - Rivas, Schwindel

2B - Madrigal, Bote

3B - Wisdom

SS - Hoerner, Alcantara

LF - Hermosillo, Deichmann

CF - Happ, Ortega, Fargas

RF - Heyward

 

There's two players there that I'd be very happy going into next year with as a starter: Contreras & Madrigal. I'd love to get Hoerner into a Zobrist-type role to spell multiple positions. It would be great if 1-2 positions could be filled through this year's tryouts.

 

Starting Pitchers:

Hendricks, Mills, Alzolay, Steele, Thompson

 

We're going to need at least 2, likely 3, reliable starters to compete in '22.

 

Relief Pitchers:

Wieck, Wick, Heuer, Brothers, Rodriguez, Rucker, Maples, Adam, Nance, Winkler, Megill, Abbott, etc

 

I'd actually be fine if we didn't add anyone from outside the org to the relief corps in the offseason.

 

 

Summary of Needs:

 

In varying degrees of need: SP, LF, SP, 1B, CF, SS, 3B, RF, SP

 

2021-22 Free Agent Options

SS: Correa, Seager, Story, Baez, Semien

OF: Conforto, Castellanos, Rosario, Garcia, Canha, Marte

Top Tier SP: Kershaw, Stroman, Gausman, Syndergaard, Gray, Rodon

Mid Tier SP: Duffy, Smyly, Pineda, Paxton, Bundy, Rodgriguez, Ray, Quintana, Heaney, Archer, Matz

Old Tier SP: Greinke, Verlander, Scherzer, Morton, Cueto, Kluber

 

Actions to Take

 

Trades:

Trade Willson for prospects this winter

 

I just don't trust catchers bodies as they get into their 30's. I'd love to extend Willson for 2-3 years, but I think he will want (and get) a longer contract than that. There will be no decent catchers available as FA, so I'm hoping that we can get a decent return for him. This will be our last trade to restock the farm

 

Trade flotsam for Josh Donaldson

 

IIRC, the Twins were willing to basically give Donaldson away at the deadline, but weren't willing to bundle a prospect or pay down the salary at all. He's got two years left at $21.75/yr and his production is still pretty decent. It adds some relatively certain performance to the lineup without adding any long term commitment.

 

Trade decent flotsam to SD for Wil Myers and Gore

 

I'm not sure if SD will be incented enough to do this depending on what happens with the CBA. But I'd do my best to absorb Myers' salary to get Gore and his upside while avoiding four years of Hosmer. Gore being semi-broken makes this semi-possible. Myers is also off the books for when we want to try and go for it the following year.

 

 

Free Agents:

C: Sign Mike Zunino for 2/$10

 

Zunino's market should be pretty limited, so I don't think it would take any more than a 1-2 year contract at $5M. Zunino makes the strikeout situation much worse, but that will be addressed by other moves.

 

SS: Sign Seager for 6/$180

 

I'm hoping Seager's market doesn't go too crazy given the injuries and the years since he's been a 6-win player. He becomes one of the cornerstones of the next great Cubs team. The change from Baez to Seager completely mitigates the contact change from Willson to Zunino.

 

OF: Sign Conforto for 4/$80

 

With his severely down year, I don't think it will break the bank to sign Conforto. Very good upside to the signing, though

 

SP: Sign Eduardo Rodriguez for 3/$45

 

With his ERA as high as it is, I don't think he'll be super expensive to sign. He's never been a star, but he misses bats and eats some innings.

 

SP: Sign Matz for 2/$20

 

2022 MLB Team:

2B - Madrigal ($1)

SS - Seager ($30)

LF - Conforto ($20)

3B - Donaldson ($22)

1B/DH - Myers ($14 to the cap/$23 to the payroll)

CF - Happ ($4.5)

C - Zunino ($5)

RF - Heyward ($23)

 

Bench - Hoerner, Bote, catcher, best of 2021 tryouts ($5)

 

SP: Hendricks ($14)

SP: Rodriguez: ($15)

SP: Matz: ($10)

SP: Mills ($1)

SP: Alzolay / Gore / Steele / Thompson ($3)

 

RP: cast of millions ($10)

 

That team can easily be afforded from a cap perspective at a total of $175m. And even if I've underestimated the contracts, there's plenty of room on the payroll to go higher and still leave room under the cap for the following offseason. I'd honestly add another pitcher of the Trevor Williams variety to cover the fourth spot in the rotation in case of need. They can always be moved at the deadline if someone needs those innings.

 

It's not a dominant team, but it can compete and win in the NL Central. It puts out a pretty deep lineup for 2022 that doesn't rely on the extended tryouts of the bats this year for the lineup. If those guys do make the team, it provides coverage on the bench and/or makes others available at the deadline to keep their salaries and sell for prospects. As players like Davis reach the majors, the Cubs should take the opportunity to sell off the vets while holding their salaries to maximize the return.

 

It also keeps the powder dry with our own prospects to use them when we are truly going for it in 2023. The younger prospects should be nearing or in the upper minors by then, and we'll have added another high draft class & large international budget. We will hopefully have some high end guys knocking on the door here plus a lot of assets to fill out the club through trades.

[Tim]

I like Donaldson best of the trade targets with contracts mentioned so far.

 

Someone, probably TT, summed up why Gore may be attainable, I remember agreeing, and yeah I would like to see that happen much preferably with Myers to Hosmer.

 

Swapping Contreras for Zunino seems like a waste of time at this point, but that's at this point and maybe the Rays want to give up some real prospects for an upgrade finally. Extending Contreras for 4 years would actually take him to the age 33 season that 2 year deal to Zunino gets you, could go either way and I like the bird in the hand one for what you're trying to do

 

----

 

I didn't realize Michael Lorenzen was a FA until just now but I would like to snipe him from the Reds. Lots of versatility as pitchers go, he's closing lately, and I can make the case he should start between his velocity, health, pitch mix, price range (I'm thinking he can ask for 4/40 pretty easily in FA)

Zunino is a free agent.

 

I don't want to make a long-term commitment to an aging catcher with as many miles as Willson. So I'd trade him to get prospects and use a relatively small amount of cash to sign Zunino as a replacement.

[The_Achiever]

I have been pretty on board with blowing it up but it’s really hitting me how bereft we are of actual mlb players.

 

Even bad Cubs teams of the past never felt like they had *this many* holes to fill.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I have been pretty on board with blowing it up but it’s really hitting me how bereft we are of actual mlb players.

 

Even bad Cubs teams of the past never felt like they had *this many* holes to fill.

 

It’s good to remember the 3 best position players on the team are on the IL, so there’s a significant influx on the current roster relative to what we’re seeing right now, plus any optimism you want to have about others who could be productive role players(Happ, Bote, Deichmann) or better than their current role(most of the non-Hendricks SP). There is a lot of depth to add though.

[d_money]

There are 41 games left. I don’t see the Cubs winning 10.

[jersey cubs fan]

I have been pretty on board with blowing it up but it’s really hitting me how bereft we are of actual mlb players.

 

Even bad Cubs teams of the past never felt like they had *this many* holes to fill.

 

It’s good to remember the 3 best position players on the team are on the IL, so there’s a significant influx on the current roster relative to what we’re seeing right now, plus any optimism you want to have about others who could be productive role players(Happ, Bote, Deichmann) or better than their current role(most of the non-Hendricks SP). There is a lot of depth to add though.

 

This just made me sad thinking that Nico Hoerner is now a top 3 position player on this team. It was always nice that Willson was like the 5th best player, now he's the best?

 

And for some reason, the Cubs website does not list Madrigal (assuming he's in this sad little group) on the IL. He's shown as in the minors.

[Bertz]

I have been pretty on board with blowing it up but it’s really hitting me how bereft we are of actual mlb players.

 

Even bad Cubs teams of the past never felt like they had *this many* holes to fill.

 

It’s good to remember the 3 best position players on the team are on the IL, so there’s a significant influx on the current roster relative to what we’re seeing right now, plus any optimism you want to have about others who could be productive role players(Happ, Bote, Deichmann) or better than their current role(most of the non-Hendricks SP). There is a lot of depth to add though.

 

Plus there's Brennen Davis. Steamer thinks he's a league average hitter in the big leagues right now. So that's another ~2.5 WAR (obviously with wide error bars) for next year that's already in the org but not on the roster.

 

I also think the cascading effects of depth are always understated until you actually see them in action. Frank Schwindel as the starting 1B would be a huge disappointment. Frank Schwindel as the top RH platoon bat off the bench might be a good thing. Steele as the #3 starter would be a huge yikes, but as fighting for the #5? Etc. Pushing the should be bench players that currently make up our starting lineup into the bench roles doesn't just reduce their playing time, it improves their performance when they do play because they're put in advantageous positions a higher proportion of the time.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I have been pretty on board with blowing it up but it’s really hitting me how bereft we are of actual mlb players.

 

Even bad Cubs teams of the past never felt like they had *this many* holes to fill.

 

It’s good to remember the 3 best position players on the team are on the IL, so there’s a significant influx on the current roster relative to what we’re seeing right now, plus any optimism you want to have about others who could be productive role players(Happ, Bote, Deichmann) or better than their current role(most of the non-Hendricks SP). There is a lot of depth to add though.

 

Plus there's Brennen Davis. Steamer thinks he's a league average hitter in the big leagues right now. So that's another ~2.5 WAR (obviously with wide error bars) for next year that's already in the org but not on the roster.

 

I also think the cascading effects of depth are always understated until you actually see them in action. Frank Schwindel as the starting 1B would be a huge disappointment. Frank Schwindel as the top RH platoon bat off the bench might be a good thing. Steele as the #3 starter would be a huge yikes, but as fighting for the #5? Etc. Pushing the should be bench players that currently make up our starting lineup into the bench roles doesn't just reduce their playing time, it improves their performance when they do play because they're put in advantageous positions a higher proportion of the time.

 

Agree with the broad point here(though I'm not gonna be pleased with Schwindel on any opening day roster), the other thing that is worth pointing out is that depth is easy to add but sometimes hard to identify. What I mean here is that going from 3-5 useful position players to 6-8 is not something that really should cost tens of millions of dollars or a bunch of prospect capital, there's lots of good performances that come from marginal FAs(look at Tepera or Marisnick), non-tenders or by trading for guys being dumped. The problem is with the current level of depth you need a very high hit rate on them(and/or some existing player development successes) to be playoff caliber. With good process, good coaching, and good fortune you can do well(look at the 2021 Giants lineup and rotation), but it's also why I tend to frame it as the 2022 playoffs being possible but unlikely, and the 2023 playoffs being a more attainable goal.

[Backtobanks]

I have been pretty on board with blowing it up but it’s really hitting me how bereft we are of actual mlb players.

 

Even bad Cubs teams of the past never felt like they had *this many* holes to fill.

 

It’s good to remember the 3 best position players on the team are on the IL, so there’s a significant influx on the current roster relative to what we’re seeing right now, plus any optimism you want to have about others who could be productive role players(Happ, Bote, Deichmann) or better than their current role(most of the non-Hendricks SP). There is a lot of depth to add though.

 

This just made me sad thinking that Nico Hoerner is now a top 3 position player on this team. It was always nice that Willson was like the 5th best player, now he's the best?

 

And for some reason, the Cubs website does not list Madrigal (assuming he's in this sad little group) on the IL. He's shown as in the minors.

 

And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024.

[squally1313]

 

It’s good to remember the 3 best position players on the team are on the IL, so there’s a significant influx on the current roster relative to what we’re seeing right now, plus any optimism you want to have about others who could be productive role players(Happ, Bote, Deichmann) or better than their current role(most of the non-Hendricks SP). There is a lot of depth to add though.

 

This just made me sad thinking that Nico Hoerner is now a top 3 position player on this team. It was always nice that Willson was like the 5th best player, now he's the best?

 

And for some reason, the Cubs website does not list Madrigal (assuming he's in this sad little group) on the IL. He's shown as in the minors.

 

And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024.

 

This is mostly bad. "Superstar" and "SS" are pretty obvious holes, right? How long do you want to wait to see if our prospect list turns out a superstar? Davis next year, and then....Ed Howard, all of 21 years old in 2023, currently getting owned in single A? The even younger Preciado/Hernandez/Caissie/Made group? And if those don't hit just press the reset button again?

 

We have $38m in guaranteed salary next year, another $15m in arbitration for Willy, Ian, Ortega, Wieck, and then the league minimum for Mills, Wick, Heuer, Madrigal, Adbert, Hoerner, Steele, Wisdom, and whoever else. Call it, what, $60m?

 

How does signing 34 year old Tommy Pham do anything in your plan as your top offensive move? Go get someone you know is good, gives you a shot of being good soon, and will still be good when those cheap prospects finally make it up. Then figure out how much money you have left and go from there.

[CubinNY]

 

This just made me sad thinking that Nico Hoerner is now a top 3 position player on this team. It was always nice that Willson was like the 5th best player, now he's the best?

 

And for some reason, the Cubs website does not list Madrigal (assuming he's in this sad little group) on the IL. He's shown as in the minors.

 

And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024.

 

This is mostly bad. "Superstar" and "SS" are pretty obvious holes, right? How long do you want to wait to see if our prospect list turns out a superstar? Davis next year, and then....Ed Howard, all of 21 years old in 2023, currently getting owned in single A? The even younger Preciado/Hernandez/Caissie/Made group? And if those don't hit just press the reset button again?

 

We have $38m in guaranteed salary next year, another $15m in arbitration for Willy, Ian, Ortega, Wieck, and then the league minimum for Mills, Wick, Heuer, Madrigal, Adbert, Hoerner, Steele, Wisdom, and whoever else. Call it, what, $60m?

 

How does signing 34 year old Tommy Pham do anything in your plan as your top offensive move? Go get someone you know is good, gives you a shot of being good soon, and will still be good when those cheap prospects finally make it up. Then figure out how much money you have left and go from there.

Or use the good prospect to get gooder

[jersey cubs fan]

sign me up for the sign superstars gameplan.

[Bertz]

 

And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024.

 

This is mostly bad. "Superstar" and "SS" are pretty obvious holes, right? How long do you want to wait to see if our prospect list turns out a superstar? Davis next year, and then....Ed Howard, all of 21 years old in 2023, currently getting owned in single A? The even younger Preciado/Hernandez/Caissie/Made group? And if those don't hit just press the reset button again?

 

We have $38m in guaranteed salary next year, another $15m in arbitration for Willy, Ian, Ortega, Wieck, and then the league minimum for Mills, Wick, Heuer, Madrigal, Adbert, Hoerner, Steele, Wisdom, and whoever else. Call it, what, $60m?

 

How does signing 34 year old Tommy Pham do anything in your plan as your top offensive move? Go get someone you know is good, gives you a shot of being good soon, and will still be good when those cheap prospects finally make it up. Then figure out how much money you have left and go from there.

Or use the good prospect to get gooder

 

Yeah, there's no reason to prospect hug this winter. Davis is off the table. He combines starpower with MLB proximity and does it at a position of need for the big league clubs. Literally anyone else? On the table. The Padres showed last winter how much shopping you can get done without using elite prospects. I would want to lean more on the checkbook than the farm system, but the Cubs should make at least one notable buy-side trade, probably two.

[Backtobanks]

 

This just made me sad thinking that Nico Hoerner is now a top 3 position player on this team. It was always nice that Willson was like the 5th best player, now he's the best?

 

And for some reason, the Cubs website does not list Madrigal (assuming he's in this sad little group) on the IL. He's shown as in the minors.

 

And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024.

 

This is mostly bad. "Superstar" and "SS" are pretty obvious holes, right? How long do you want to wait to see if our prospect list turns out a superstar? Davis next year, and then....Ed Howard, all of 21 years old in 2023, currently getting owned in single A? The even younger Preciado/Hernandez/Caissie/Made group? And if those don't hit just press the reset button again?

 

We have $38m in guaranteed salary next year, another $15m in arbitration for Willy, Ian, Ortega, Wieck, and then the league minimum for Mills, Wick, Heuer, Madrigal, Adbert, Hoerner, Steele, Wisdom, and whoever else. Call it, what, $60m?

 

How does signing 34 year old Tommy Pham do anything in your plan as your top offensive move? Go get someone you know is good, gives you a shot of being good soon, and will still be good when those cheap prospects finally make it up. Then figure out how much money you have left and go from there.

 

SS is not an obvious hole until you see what Hoerner can do. Signing a superstar SS for $30 million per year still leaves this team a 3rd place finisher waiting for 2024. Meanwhile, we have almost no pitching (besides Hendricks) and probably very little to count on for the next few years. As for Pham, I'm more than open to finding another RH LF that PTR can fit into his austerity budget. Also, I mentioned trading for Mancini/Voit to help the offense. I'm looking at many/most of these players as placeholders until 2024. As for your comment about the Preciadp/Hernandez/Caissie group not making it, Hoyer will be fired if they don't because this is where he has put all of his faith into.

[jersey cubs fan]

SS is not an obvious hole until you see what Hoerner can do.

 

He's a 24 year old 2B who has never not been on the IL. You cannot wait to see what such a player can do when there are better options readily available.

[squally1313]

 

And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024.

 

This is mostly bad. "Superstar" and "SS" are pretty obvious holes, right? How long do you want to wait to see if our prospect list turns out a superstar? Davis next year, and then....Ed Howard, all of 21 years old in 2023, currently getting owned in single A? The even younger Preciado/Hernandez/Caissie/Made group? And if those don't hit just press the reset button again?

 

We have $38m in guaranteed salary next year, another $15m in arbitration for Willy, Ian, Ortega, Wieck, and then the league minimum for Mills, Wick, Heuer, Madrigal, Adbert, Hoerner, Steele, Wisdom, and whoever else. Call it, what, $60m?

 

How does signing 34 year old Tommy Pham do anything in your plan as your top offensive move? Go get someone you know is good, gives you a shot of being good soon, and will still be good when those cheap prospects finally make it up. Then figure out how much money you have left and go from there.

 

SS is not an obvious hole until you see what Hoerner can do. Signing a superstar SS for $30 million per year still leaves this team a 3rd place finisher waiting for 2024. Meanwhile, we have almost no pitching (besides Hendricks) and probably very little to count on for the next few years. As for Pham, I'm more than open to finding another RH LF that PTR can fit into his austerity budget. Also, I mentioned trading for Mancini/Voit to help the offense. I'm looking at many/most of these players as placeholders until 2024. As for your comment about the Preciadp/Hernandez/Caissie group not making it, Hoyer will be fired if they don't because this is where he has put all of his faith into.

 

If you truly believe there's nothing we can do until 2024, why are we wasting money and prospects on dudes who will be 34, 33, and 32 on opening day 2024, and then spending 'big money' on Stroman (will be a month shy of 33) or Rodon (31)? You've got $80m coming off the books, you've got Heyward in 2 years, and you aren't scheduling any big paydays for your internal guys anytime remotely soon. Use the freed up cash, get the team to project to .500, and reassess next June on if you want to wait for the teenagers or use them to get big league talent.