Darvish & Caratini to the Padres for Zach Davies & 4 Rookie Ball Prospects

[Cubswin11]

I’ve held out some hope they’d run the team like a baseball team and care about the product after this year with money available. But it seems like they’ve completely turned to running things like a business and revenues and margins are now more important than whatever happens on the field. If enough things break right with development maybe we have a competent team by 2025!

[Backtobanks]

Part of Jed's quote - "Have to be more efficient with fewer employees" actually means fewer ML players.

[gflore34]

When you sit back and think of all that has to go correct over the next 5-6 years for any Preciado, Santana, Cassie or Mena to make it to the big leagues. It's not even realistic to consider they'll amount to anything, sure Jed said it's a fools errand. The fact that he couldn't acquire someone closer with a more realistic chance is why he deserves wholesale criticism. Today he mentioned something along the lines of often times trades which initially appear to be bad, turn out, in time, to be good. horsefeathers you Jed Hoyer, bad trades end up being bad trades 99.99% of time, who are you trying fool? The initially bad one but, turn out good trades aren't filled with teenagers you have to wait 5-6 years with everything going right to see any return.

[CubinNY]

I wonder what percentage of Jed's paycheck is for blatantly lying about ownership mandating a slash to the payroll

100%. He’s the Ricketts hatchet man.

[gflore34]

I wonder what percentage of Jed's paycheck is for blatantly lying about ownership mandating a slash to the payroll

100%. He’s the Ricketts hatchet man.

 

Mind you this return for Darvish was the "best" he could do, doesn't that make you all warm and fuzzy about the future?

[Cubswin11]

I wonder what percentage of Jed's paycheck is for blatantly lying about ownership mandating a slash to the payroll

100%. He’s the Ricketts hatchet man.

 

Mind you this return for Darvish was the "best" he could do, doesn't that make you all warm and fuzzy about the future?

I do not like the return and not getting more certainty/closer to MLB guys. But there were some circumstances that made it understandable this was the best (assuming the ownership mandated moving him at all costs). Yu had a 12 team no-trade list, the Padres weren’t on it, if he picked the teams right that could’ve boxed them in. Basically if he picked all the other bigger markets/teams trying to win and they didn’t want to deal with a deal falling through to a NTC the Padres might have been the only team to deal with. It’s very easy the other teams not on the no trade list were basically the NL/AL Central teams, Marlins, Orioles, Red Sox, Rockies, Giants, Mariners, D’backs, Astros, As, Rays. None of those teams would trade for him.

[jmajew]

I haven't posted here in years, so first off, forgive me.

 

I do not mind this deal or dumping Darvish in general. My logic is simple. Whenever, the Cubs were going to go into a rebuild they were going to lose revenues and not be as profitable. 2021, because of the Pandemic, is going to be a very light revenue year. In the past few years it has become apparent that this team as currently constructed is not good enough to win another World Series. Management came to the conclusion that it was better to start the rebuild a year or two earlier than planned due to the Pandemic. If the pandemic wouldn't have happened I believe the organization would have allowed one more year of going for it, even though they knew in their hearts the team wasn't good enough. I believe this is why Theo left when he did. The plan was always to go for it through 2021 and then start the rebuild. The pandemic ultimately pushed it forward by one year.

 

I do not think the return for Darvish is that high, but I also look at FA right now and I personally don't think any FA is going to get a major contract this year. I'm spitballing here but I have a feeling Trevor Bauer will be had for less than 4/100. If that is the case what value does it really leave for Darvish? Wouldn't it be diminished? It does not sound like many teams were looking at him and willing to trade for him. The market just isn't there this year.

 

I know Jed is saying this wasn't money motivated, and I believe him when he says that. They knew the team wasn't good enough to win without big investments. They currently do not have the money to make big investments. So they were stuck in the no mans land of staying the course or modifying the course and rebuild. It is a bad sign for baseball in general that the value of Darvish was a low as it was.

[CubinNY]

I haven't posted here in years, so first off, forgive me.

 

I do not mind this deal or dumping Darvish in general. My logic is simple. Whenever, the Cubs were going to go into a rebuild they were going to lose revenues and not be as profitable. 2021, because of the Pandemic, is going to be a very light revenue year. In the past few years it has become apparent that this team as currently constructed is not good enough to win another World Series. Management came to the conclusion that it was better to start the rebuild a year or two earlier than planned due to the Pandemic. If the pandemic wouldn't have happened I believe the organization would have allowed one more year of going for it, even though they knew in their hearts the team wasn't good enough. I believe this is why Theo left when he did. The plan was always to go for it through 2021 and then start the rebuild. The pandemic ultimately pushed it forward by one year.

 

I do not think the return for Darvish is that high, but I also look at FA right now and I personally don't think any FA is going to get a major contract this year. I'm spitballing here but I have a feeling Trevor Bauer will be had for less than 4/100. If that is the case what value does it really leave for Darvish? Wouldn't it be diminished? It does not sound like many teams were looking at him and willing to trade for him. The market just isn't there this year.

 

I know Jed is saying this wasn't money motivated, and I believe him when he says that. They knew the team wasn't good enough to win without big investments. They currently do not have the money to make big investments. So they were stuck in the no mans land of staying the course or modifying the course and rebuild. It is a bad sign for baseball in general that the value of Darvish was a low as it was.

The Ricketts have all the money they need to do whatever they want 365 days of the year, every year for the rest of their lives and those of their children and grandchildren.

[Derwood]

It's going to be fun when 2024 rolls around and these guys are ready to play, but the Ricketts decide to not spend any money in order to fund Trump's campaign

[Backtobanks]

It's going to be fun when 2024 rolls around and these guys are ready to play, but the Ricketts decide to not spend any money in order to fund Trump's campaign

 

Speaking of Trump, I think we'll be getting a lot of lies and claims of fake news from the Cubs starting with Hoyer's claim that the Darvish trade had nothing to do with money. Stay tuned.

[Guancous]

The next collective bargaining agreement will likely reduce the incentives to play rookies.

 

How does this trade look if the Cubs only get five years of service instead of six?

[jersey cubs fan]

The next collective bargaining agreement will likely reduce the incentives to play rookies.

 

How does this trade look if the Cubs only get five years of service instead of six?

Won’t mean anything since these kids won’t be up until the CBA following that one.

[CubinNY]

The next collective bargaining agreement will likely reduce the incentives to play rookies.

 

How does this trade look if the Cubs only get five years of service instead of six?

Won’t mean anything since these kids won’t be up until the CBA following that one.

Or more likely out of pro baseball.

[CubinNY]

I haven't posted here in years, so first off, forgive me.

 

I do not mind this deal or dumping Darvish in general. My logic is simple. Whenever, the Cubs were going to go into a rebuild they were going to lose revenues and not be as profitable. 2021, because of the Pandemic, is going to be a very light revenue year. In the past few years it has become apparent that this team as currently constructed is not good enough to win another World Series. Management came to the conclusion that it was better to start the rebuild a year or two earlier than planned due to the Pandemic. If the pandemic wouldn't have happened I believe the organization would have allowed one more year of going for it, even though they knew in their hearts the team wasn't good enough. I believe this is why Theo left when he did. The plan was always to go for it through 2021 and then start the rebuild. The pandemic ultimately pushed it forward by one year.

 

I do not think the return for Darvish is that high, but I also look at FA right now and I personally don't think any FA is going to get a major contract this year. I'm spitballing here but I have a feeling Trevor Bauer will be had for less than 4/100. If that is the case what value does it really leave for Darvish? Wouldn't it be diminished? It does not sound like many teams were looking at him and willing to trade for him. The market just isn't there this year.

 

I know Jed is saying this wasn't money motivated, and I believe him when he says that. They knew the team wasn't good enough to win without big investments. They currently do not have the money to make big investments. So they were stuck in the no mans land of staying the course or modifying the course and rebuild. It is a bad sign for baseball in general that the value of Darvish was a low as it was.

The Ricketts have all the money they need to do whatever they want 365 days of the year, every year for the rest of their lives and those of their children and grandchildren.

I know this is a bleed post but, the Ricketts family gave millions of dollars to re-elect Trump. I have no time for PTR posts.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I haven't posted here in years, so first off, forgive me.

 

I do not mind this deal or dumping Darvish in general. My logic is simple. Whenever, the Cubs were going to go into a rebuild they were going to lose revenues and not be as profitable. 2021, because of the Pandemic, is going to be a very light revenue year. In the past few years it has become apparent that this team as currently constructed is not good enough to win another World Series. Management came to the conclusion that it was better to start the rebuild a year or two earlier than planned due to the Pandemic. If the pandemic wouldn't have happened I believe the organization would have allowed one more year of going for it, even though they knew in their hearts the team wasn't good enough. I believe this is why Theo left when he did. The plan was always to go for it through 2021 and then start the rebuild. The pandemic ultimately pushed it forward by one year.

 

I do not think the return for Darvish is that high, but I also look at FA right now and I personally don't think any FA is going to get a major contract this year. I'm spitballing here but I have a feeling Trevor Bauer will be had for less than 4/100. If that is the case what value does it really leave for Darvish? Wouldn't it be diminished? It does not sound like many teams were looking at him and willing to trade for him. The market just isn't there this year.

 

I know Jed is saying this wasn't money motivated, and I believe him when he says that. They knew the team wasn't good enough to win without big investments. They currently do not have the money to make big investments. So they were stuck in the no mans land of staying the course or modifying the course and rebuild. It is a bad sign for baseball in general that the value of Darvish was a low as it was.

The Ricketts have all the money they need to do whatever they want 365 days of the year, every year for the rest of their lives and those of their children and grandchildren.

I know this is a bleed post but, the Ricketts family gave millions of dollars to re-elect Trump. I have no time for PTR posts.

 

It's possible to understand that Cubs ownership is not hemorrhaging money and also understand that the front office is working within financial constraints. It's not being a Ricketts apologist to try to discuss the team within the practical limits that are there, regardless of the fairness of those limits.

[Backtobanks]

From Cubs Insider:

 

https://www.cubsinsider.com/2021/01/02/not-talking-seriously-about-jake-cronenworth-may-give-clues-to-cubs-plans/

 

This is totally insane. The Cubs never considered someone with his skills who is controlled for 5 more years while making the league minimum. "They didn't want to lock in someone at 2B for the next 5 years"? If Hoerner develops into a solid ML, he could take over at SS, if they decide to not extend Baez, move to CF, or trade from a position of strength to acquire what they need.

[imb]

croenworth is 26 and would be in his 30s by the time the cubs are good again. also he probably sucks. As does Nico.

[sneakypower]

Cronenworth was 15th in xwOBA, i would've done backflips if he was part of the return

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/expected_statistics?type=batter

[jmajew]

I haven't posted here in years, so first off, forgive me.

 

I do not mind this deal or dumping Darvish in general. My logic is simple. Whenever, the Cubs were going to go into a rebuild they were going to lose revenues and not be as profitable. 2021, because of the Pandemic, is going to be a very light revenue year. In the past few years it has become apparent that this team as currently constructed is not good enough to win another World Series. Management came to the conclusion that it was better to start the rebuild a year or two earlier than planned due to the Pandemic. If the pandemic wouldn't have happened I believe the organization would have allowed one more year of going for it, even though they knew in their hearts the team wasn't good enough. I believe this is why Theo left when he did. The plan was always to go for it through 2021 and then start the rebuild. The pandemic ultimately pushed it forward by one year.

 

I do not think the return for Darvish is that high, but I also look at FA right now and I personally don't think any FA is going to get a major contract this year. I'm spitballing here but I have a feeling Trevor Bauer will be had for less than 4/100. If that is the case what value does it really leave for Darvish? Wouldn't it be diminished? It does not sound like many teams were looking at him and willing to trade for him. The market just isn't there this year.

 

I know Jed is saying this wasn't money motivated, and I believe him when he says that. They knew the team wasn't good enough to win without big investments. They currently do not have the money to make big investments. So they were stuck in the no mans land of staying the course or modifying the course and rebuild. It is a bad sign for baseball in general that the value of Darvish was a low as it was.

The Ricketts have all the money they need to do whatever they want 365 days of the year, every year for the rest of their lives and those of their children and grandchildren.

I know this is a bleed post but, the Ricketts family gave millions of dollars to re-elect Trump. I have no time for PTR posts.

 

I don't see the relevance of the amount of money they donated or how much we perceive them to have matters.

 

Do you think the team could have won a title as currently constructed without adding Trevor Bauer and a few other pieces at an extra 50-70 mil a year for the next 3-5 years? I personally do not. If you are not significantly increasing your odds of winning a title why spend the money and if you are significantly increasing your odds will the odds still be that much higher in years 2-5 of the contracts? If the answer is no I do not see a reason why to invest that money and why as a fan I'd want that. All you would be doing is pushing out the inevitable by a year but making the rebuild even harder. You invest heavily in FA when you have a young core under team control. It is a proven model that works.

[squally1313]

The Ricketts have all the money they need to do whatever they want 365 days of the year, every year for the rest of their lives and those of their children and grandchildren.

I know this is a bleed post but, the Ricketts family gave millions of dollars to re-elect Trump. I have no time for PTR posts.

 

I don't see the relevance of the amount of money they donated or how much we perceive them to have matters.

 

Do you think the team could have won a title as currently constructed without adding Trevor Bauer and a few other pieces at an extra 50-70 mil a year for the next 3-5 years? I personally do not. If you are not significantly increasing your odds of winning a title why spend the money and if you are significantly increasing your odds will the odds still be that much higher in years 2-5 of the contracts? If the answer is no I do not see a reason why to invest that money and why as a fan I'd want that. All you would be doing is pushing out the inevitable by a year but making the rebuild even harder. You invest heavily in FA when you have a young core under team control. It is a proven model that works.

 

Prior to Schwarber/Darvish, would you agree they were the favorites to win the division next year? Because if so, at that point there's not really a lot you can possibly do to 'significantly increase' your odds of winning a title.

 

That's not to say we can't be frustrated that the Ricketts more or less pocketed 5 years of historic success and the associated profits, then took one bad year (that was bad for everyone) and decided to tear it down. We just traded our best pitcher for a different version of Cubs era John Lackey and four dudes who won't sniff Wrigley for 4 years. How long do you think a team with the Cubs resources should need to rebuild?

[jmajew]

I know this is a bleed post but, the Ricketts family gave millions of dollars to re-elect Trump. I have no time for PTR posts.

 

I don't see the relevance of the amount of money they donated or how much we perceive them to have matters.

 

Do you think the team could have won a title as currently constructed without adding Trevor Bauer and a few other pieces at an extra 50-70 mil a year for the next 3-5 years? I personally do not. If you are not significantly increasing your odds of winning a title why spend the money and if you are significantly increasing your odds will the odds still be that much higher in years 2-5 of the contracts? If the answer is no I do not see a reason why to invest that money and why as a fan I'd want that. All you would be doing is pushing out the inevitable by a year but making the rebuild even harder. You invest heavily in FA when you have a young core under team control. It is a proven model that works.

 

Prior to Schwarber/Darvish, would you agree they were the favorites to win the division next year? Because if so, at that point there's not really a lot you can possibly do to 'significantly increase' your odds of winning a title.

 

That's not to say we can't be frustrated that the Ricketts more or less pocketed 5 years of historic success and the associated profits, then took one bad year (that was bad for everyone) and decided to tear it down. We just traded our best pitcher for a different version of Cubs era John Lackey and four dudes who won't sniff Wrigley for 4 years. How long do you think a team with the Cubs resources should need to rebuild?

 

Point taken. I think I'm the oddity that didn't think with Schwarber and Darvish we were good enough to win the division. I see it as being a crapshoot between the Cardinals, Cubs, and Brewers in 2021. I get the profits point, but you can show a profit and have poor cash flow. My guess is the cash flow hasn't been great because of all the investment they have done in the area. None of that really matters to me to be honest. I just don't think the team is good enough to win a World Series and I don't think we would have been good enough unless we invested heavily in the likes of Trevor Bauer and then completely remade our lineup so we don' rely as much on the long ball. If you expected Javy, Bryant, and Rizzo to all have bounce back years I could be on board. I think their are serious flaws in all of their games and the league has learned them. We are seeing the evolution of pitching against the three true outcomes and I think you will see teams readjust their approach again.

[squally1313]

 

I don't see the relevance of the amount of money they donated or how much we perceive them to have matters.

 

Do you think the team could have won a title as currently constructed without adding Trevor Bauer and a few other pieces at an extra 50-70 mil a year for the next 3-5 years? I personally do not. If you are not significantly increasing your odds of winning a title why spend the money and if you are significantly increasing your odds will the odds still be that much higher in years 2-5 of the contracts? If the answer is no I do not see a reason why to invest that money and why as a fan I'd want that. All you would be doing is pushing out the inevitable by a year but making the rebuild even harder. You invest heavily in FA when you have a young core under team control. It is a proven model that works.

 

Prior to Schwarber/Darvish, would you agree they were the favorites to win the division next year? Because if so, at that point there's not really a lot you can possibly do to 'significantly increase' your odds of winning a title.

 

That's not to say we can't be frustrated that the Ricketts more or less pocketed 5 years of historic success and the associated profits, then took one bad year (that was bad for everyone) and decided to tear it down. We just traded our best pitcher for a different version of Cubs era John Lackey and four dudes who won't sniff Wrigley for 4 years. How long do you think a team with the Cubs resources should need to rebuild?

 

Point taken. I think I'm the oddity that didn't think with Schwarber and Darvish we were good enough to win the division. I see it as being a crapshoot between the Cardinals, Cubs, and Brewers in 2021. I get the profits point, but you can show a profit and have poor cash flow. My guess is the cash flow hasn't been great because of all the investment they have done in the area. None of that really matters to me to be honest. I just don't think the team is good enough to win a World Series and I don't think we would have been good enough unless we invested heavily in the likes of Trevor Bauer and then completely remade our lineup so we don' rely as much on the long ball. If you expected Javy, Bryant, and Rizzo to all have bounce back years I could be on board. I think their are serious flaws in all of their games and the league has learned them. We are seeing the evolution of pitching against the three true outcomes and I think you will see teams readjust their approach again.

 

But...we just won the division. And it certainly wasn't Jon Lester leading us there. Sure, you need to fill innings, and find someone who can replace Jeffress' mirage of a season, etc. but those would be minor fixes (like, say, just bringing those dudes back, or getting younger, also dirt cheap versions of those players). And, since you mentioned bounce back years from Javy/KB/Rizz...that just kinda proves my point. We won in spite of them being ass, and you can't point me to a single thing those other teams have done to improve their rosters.

 

As far as profits, cash flows, whatever...I get that I'm oversimplifying it, but I also get that the Ricketts could start the process tomorrow on realizing that gigantic unrealized gain of team appreciation they're sitting on, and have zero problem in the midst of pandemic finding a willing buyer to more than solve all their problems. But they won't, because they know that continuing to own the Cubs will be incredibly profitable for them (and would remain that way with Darvish/Schwarber on the books, with a Bauer contract, etc).

[javy knows my name]

Petition to change the thread title to "...4 Slapdick Prospects"

[bjam12]

How would you feel about this if the Cubs surprised us all and signed Bauer?

[Sammy Sofa]

Infinitely worse.