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MLB Playoffs Game Thread

UMFan83

By UMFan83,
in Fred Hornkohl Game Thread Forum

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Rex Buckingham ACL Cubs

Rex Buckingham

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Interesting you bring up Grace... in 16 seasons, he accumulated 46.4 bWAR.

 

Molina, in a helpfully equal 16 seasons has accumulated..... 40.2 bWAR

 

Now, fangraphs has Grace at 45.5 and Molina at 54, to be fair. But they're overwhelmingly similar players according to WAR, and Molina derives a great deal of value from his defense while Grace gets little to no value added from defense. And I think we can all agree that measuring defensive value is inexact at best.

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JudasIscariotTheBird Myrtle Beach Pelicans

JudasIscariotTheBird

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Interesting you bring up Grace... in 16 seasons, he accumulated 46.4 bWAR.

 

Molina, in a helpfully equal 16 seasons has accumulated..... 40.2 bWAR

 

Now, fangraphs has Grace at 45.5 and Molina at 54, to be fair. But they're overwhelmingly similar players according to WAR, and Molina derives a great deal of value from his defense while Grace gets little to no value added from defense. And I think we can all agree that measuring defensive value is inexact at best.

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CyHawk_Cub Myrtle Beach Pelicans

CyHawk_Cub

Old-Timey Member
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Posted
And I think we can all agree that measuring defensive value is inexact at best.

Unless you're the fan of a player with unmeasurables underlying his "first ballot HOF'er!!!" narrative.

Brian MVP

Brian

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
on one hand the Cardinals are being no hit by the Nationals 4th starter through 6, on the other hand that seems like a situation where the Cardinals end up winning by 10
soccer10k Cooperstown

soccer10k

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
on one hand the Cardinals are being no hit by the Nationals 4th starter through 6, on the other hand that seems like a situation where the Cardinals end up winning by 10

 

As great as it would be to see the Cards get no hit in the playoffs, I'm kind of glad he gave up a hit because it's a 2-run game and we didn't need Martinez to be tempted to leave him in against the top of the order just because he's got a no hitter.

Thusly Boned Draft Eligible

Thusly Boned

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Sammy was polarizing, though, between the steroid suspicions and dumb fans not liking the strikeouts and swing for the fences stuff.

 

At the time, I feel like Grace was pretty universally liked. Don't know how opposing fans felt about him though. And definitely not HOF worthy, but neither is Molina. I kinda always thought he was an horsefeathers though...at least, by the time I was old enough to have that kind of opinion on my own.

Hawk and Javy probably are the most beloved Cubs since I’ve started watching and old enough to pay attention to things like that.

 

My favorite Cub growing up was Sandberg, though he wasn't exactly Captain Charisma. I don't really have a strong sense of how the fanbase felt about him (I was young), but he otherwise fits the bill - perennial all-star, long tenured, HOF (legitimately). Though I don't think he was hated by the opposition - too bland. Both Sandberg and Yadi are dbags i their own ways. The irritating thing about Molina is that he is regarded braodly as a consummate professional, but is often demonstrably a gigantic snowflake diaper baby.

 

I don't recall many players in my life that have been regarded by their fans with the sort of fawning reverence most Cards fans seem to regard Yadi, though. Yanks fans and Jeter, for sure. Both were/are very good (great, in Jeter's case, at least offensively) players who have been mythologized as something greater than what they were/are, as if they are paragons of the sport.

 

I can't think of any Cubs player in my lifetime who I can say I feel that way about.

GaryWoods College Ball

GaryWoods

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Beating Scherzer twice does mean something, lol. Sorry you can't do "small samples!!!" to things like that. That guy wrecked almost every one he faced.

 

Since Jeff Albert (came over from Houston) became the primary hitting coach, the Cardinals have had the 4th best offense in baseball.

 

Nationals, like the Braves, have a crap bullpen. You need that to win in the playoffs. Cardinals will just hack fouls and take take take until the 5th-6th when starters are lifted and feast on their pen. Just like we did Atlanta.

 

I don't put a lot of stock into WAR for pitchers when the stat doesn't consider weak contact/ground balls. And that's the moneyball market efficiency that Cardinals were all-in on. Mikolas, Waino, and Hudson are all groundball specialists. The whole staff is. With Edman and Wong and DeJong in the infield... it'll be smooth sailing barring crazy BABIP luck. Cardinals are the best postseason team remaining with HR/FB rates too. We keep the ball in the park in a homer-crazy league. That's how you win. That's how we'll beat the Nationals.

 

But would you trade Yadi for Mike Trout?

 

Yadi will finish his career as a Cardinal, and that has been the plan since Pujols left. He's this generation's franchise player for St. Louis. And yes, I absolutely understand why fans from other teams hate him.

 

I was trying to come up with a comparable player in recent (2 decades) of a Cubs player and how fans regarded them. I'm having trouble finding a 15 year player with multiple all-star appearances and arguably a HOF career.

I think Rizzo is probably the closest as far as fans adoring a player. Am I missing somebody? Do we have to go back to the 60s/70s teams to do that?

 

I think Steve Stone comes closest. But that was as an announcer.

 

Rizzo will be that guy if he sticks around awhile and his performance doesn't fall off a cliff. I barely followed the Cubs for about 10 years following the debacle that was the 2004 season so I missed most of the tenures of Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee, but as I recall they were both pretty well loved although their tenures didn't really reach the "forever identified with the Cubs" mark and therefore probably aren't what you're looking for.

 

Sammy Sosa was there up until the 2004 season. Grace was pretty close, but when Rafael Palmeiro started using steroids developed into a power hitter a lot of fans felt like the Cubs had traded the wrong first baseman. Plus he kind of turned into a grumpy old man his last year or so with the Cubs.

Cubswin11 All-Star

Cubswin11

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
This commercial for a commemorative Nationals bat sounds like it has Pat Hughes as the spokesperson.

Whatever that company is, he does the voice over for all their memorabilia commercials. There was a Yelich MVP bat commercial that ran up by me last year and he did the voice.

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