Bullpen Options

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't get the negative sentiment.

[Bertz]

yeah i don't really care about leaving money for a midseason acquisition. if you can get the better player all year, i think that outweighs the benefit of possibly being able to fill a hole that might be created by injury or underperformance later on.

 

Yeah I'm not too worried about the midseason stuff. Maybe some deal requires you to throw in an extra back of the Top 30 type prospect in exchange for salary relief. It shouldn't be too hard.

 

I do hope this means our big signing is close. I assume they did this because they knew approximately what Darvish/Cobb/whomever are going to cost. Otherwise they would have held off, right?

[Neuby]

I definitely didn't see him getting a two year deal.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I definitely didn't see him getting a two year deal.

 

Related to this:

 

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[Bull]

To me, this feels like a precursor to other deals. I find it pretty hard to believe that they stood still all this time to go with Montgomery as their 5th starter. They said they weren't done improving the team, but I highly doubt that Duensing was the missing piece.

 

Montgomery wants to start. This is Theo using Montgomery as an added trade chip to improve the team, and Duensing just replaces Montgomery in the bullpen. My guess is Theo has it all figured out now, and this is just the first domino. I'm guessing Yelich and Cobb.

This is my thought. Duensing doesn't move Montgomery to the rotation, he allows for him to be moved off the team in trade.

[Cubswin11]

I don't get the negative sentiment.

Last year was the first year since 2013 he had a xFIP/FIP under 4 and he’s 35. With all this talk about being extra careful with the LT it just seems like an unnecessary $3.5 million in aav to have on the books the next 2 years. I’d prefer to go the NRI route with a few guys to compete for this bullpen spot. But whatever it’s not worth getting upset about. Hopefully this signals they have the route locked in on the final SP spot and that gets done soon.

[Neuby]

Marrow/Cishnek replace Davis/Rondon?. If they end up keeping Grimm & Montgomery this wasn't the pen overhaul I was expecting this offseason.

[Cubswin11]

Marrow/Cishnek replace Davis/Rondon?. If they end up keeping Grimm & Montgomery this wasn't the pen overhaul I was expecting this offseason.

The pen was mostly very good last year, it didn’t need an “overhaul.” Barring crazy injuries it’s going to be a top 3-5 pen in baseball. Morrow and Carl have the ability to be top 12-15 RPs in all of MLB, Strop, Monty, Wilson and Cishek have the ability to be top ~30 RPs in all of MLB then the last sport or 2 has flexibility/upside with Maples, Duensing, Grimm and some of the guys in the minors.

[Neuby]

Neuby wrote:

Marrow/Cishnek replace Davis/Rondon?. If they end up keeping Grimm & Montgomery this wasn't the pen overhaul I was expecting this offseason.

 

The pen was mostly very good last year, it didn’t need an “overhaul.” Barring crazy injuries it’s going to be a top 3-5 pen in baseball. Morrow and Carl have the ability to be top 12-15 RPs in all of MLB, Strop, Monty, Wilson and Cishek have the ability to be top ~30 RPs in all of MLB then the last sport or 2 has flexibility/upside with Maples, Duensing, Grimm and some of the guys in the minors.

 

 

My bad overhaul was a poor choice.

 

“[The walks are] sort of systemic across the board,” Epstein told 670 The Score’s Bernstein and Goff prior to Thursday’s loss. “So we have to find a way to address that going forward, and we will. Some of it is obviously personnel based, and it will be important for us to bring in some reliable strike-throwers going forward out of the pen.

“I know our pitching infrastructure is awesome, and I love them and we do so many things right. But I think the fact that it’s been two years in a row where we haven’t really thrown strikes and that most of our relievers have taken a step back with their strike throwing, that falls on me. We got to find a way to fix it through personnel and also looking at our approach a little bit.”

 

 

This was prior to the complete turnover of the Cubs pitching structure ( Jim Benedict ,Hickey, Brendan Sagara). Looks like the Cubs banked on having the right guys and the wrong approach.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Morrow, Cishek, and a full year of (hopefully) not-2017 Wilson is a fair amount of turnover too. You can quibble that the names are the wrong names, but 3 of the top 5 relievers being new from April 2017 to 2018 is significant.

[Cubswin11]

It’s Nightengale so maybe it was 3 years for 2 dollars..... but if true, wtf

 

 

[Cubswin11]

I think I would've preferred this to signing Duensing or even as a final piece. Not going to lose sleep over it, but would've liked to add him for this price.

 

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[ConstableRabbit]

I think I would've preferred this to signing Duensing or even as a final piece. Not going to lose sleep over it, but would've liked to add him for this price.

 

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Oh.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Eh. Duensing was better last year and they are the same age. Not much of a difference between them, imo, and we need pen lefties more than righties, no?

[Cubswin11]

Eh. Duensing was better last year and they are the same age. Not much of a difference between them, imo, and we need pen lefties more than righties, no?

Yeah, like I said not worth losing sleep over, we already are going to have a top ~5 bullpen in MLB. But Oh was really dominant in 2016 and his velo was the same 2016 vs 17 so the pure stuff seems to still be there, maybe with some Hickey tweaking he could regain that. It's also probably a little meatbally but I like that he had closer experience to give us another option there as well. He also only signed for 1 year vs 2 for Duensing who I worry last year was an outlier plus he lost the pitching coach that helped him get there (I know Hickey > Bosio but Bosio still helped turn Duensing in to what he was last year). I don't think we really need lefties or righties (Monty/Wilson is enough plus we have reverse split guys or guys who are just as good lefty vs righty), we just need good options at this point and I think Oh was a better option. Oh vs lefties in 2016 was .173/.234/.221, when he's right he's elite.

 

Looking in to Oh's numbers last year he gave up a lot more fly balls (at expense of ground balls, nearly a 20% swing from 16 vs 17) and his HR rate spiked, but his hard and medium contact rates went way down and his soft contact went way up, he could have been a casualty of the juiced balls. Plus he doesn't really walk anyone (29th overall in BB/9 for qualified RPs last year). Again, whatever but I kinda wish we got him for that pittance of a contract (basically could've signed him for what we'll be paying Grimm and just could've non-tendered Grimm) since there's some bounce back potential and a high ceiling if it's met (he was 5th in RP fWAR in 2016).

[Tim]

Eh. Duensing was better last year and they are the same age. Not much of a difference between them, imo, and we need pen lefties more than righties, no?

Yeah, like I said not worth losing sleep over, we already are going to have a top ~5 bullpen in MLB. But Oh was really dominant in 2016 and his velo was the same 2016 vs 17 so the pure stuff seems to still be there, maybe with some Hickey tweaking he could regain that. It's also probably a little meatbally but I like that he had closer experience to give us another option there as well. He also only signed for 1 year vs 2 for Duensing who I worry last year was an outlier plus he lost the pitching coach that helped him get there (I know Hickey > Bosio but Bosio still helped turn Duensing in to what he was last year). I don't think we really need lefties or righties (Monty/Wilson is enough plus we have reverse split guys or guys who are just as good lefty vs righty), we just need good options at this point and I think Oh was a better option. Oh vs lefties in 2016 was .173/.234/.221, when he's right he's elite.

 

Looking in to Oh's numbers last year he gave up a lot more fly balls (at expense of ground balls, nearly a 20% swing from 16 vs 17) and his HR rate spiked, but his hard and medium contact rates went way down and his soft contact went way up, he could have been a casualty of the juiced balls. Plus he doesn't really walk anyone (29th overall in BB/9 for qualified RPs last year). Again, whatever but I kinda wish we got him for that pittance of a contract (basically could've signed him for what we'll be paying Grimm and just could've non-tendered Grimm) since there's some bounce back potential and a high ceiling if it's met (he was 5th in RP fWAR in 2016).

I've posted this before, but Sergio Romo was pretty great in the second half after working with Hickey. If he could be had on a short, cheap deal, I'd love to bring him in. Particularly if he could be had on an NRI.

[Cubswin11]

Eh. Duensing was better last year and they are the same age. Not much of a difference between them, imo, and we need pen lefties more than righties, no?

Yeah, like I said not worth losing sleep over, we already are going to have a top ~5 bullpen in MLB. But Oh was really dominant in 2016 and his velo was the same 2016 vs 17 so the pure stuff seems to still be there, maybe with some Hickey tweaking he could regain that. It's also probably a little meatbally but I like that he had closer experience to give us another option there as well. He also only signed for 1 year vs 2 for Duensing who I worry last year was an outlier plus he lost the pitching coach that helped him get there (I know Hickey > Bosio but Bosio still helped turn Duensing in to what he was last year). I don't think we really need lefties or righties (Monty/Wilson is enough plus we have reverse split guys or guys who are just as good lefty vs righty), we just need good options at this point and I think Oh was a better option. Oh vs lefties in 2016 was .173/.234/.221, when he's right he's elite.

 

Looking in to Oh's numbers last year he gave up a lot more fly balls (at expense of ground balls, nearly a 20% swing from 16 vs 17) and his HR rate spiked, but his hard and medium contact rates went way down and his soft contact went way up, he could have been a casualty of the juiced balls. Plus he doesn't really walk anyone (29th overall in BB/9 for qualified RPs last year). Again, whatever but I kinda wish we got him for that pittance of a contract (basically could've signed him for what we'll be paying Grimm and just could've non-tendered Grimm) since there's some bounce back potential and a high ceiling if it's met (he was 5th in RP fWAR in 2016).

I've posted this before, but Sergio Romo was pretty great in the second half after working with Hickey. If he could be had on a short, cheap deal, I'd love to bring him in. Particularly if he could be had on an NRI.

I could get behind this, especially as a NRI. Another name I'd throw out in a similar fashion if he could be had cheap/NRI would be Bud Norris, out of the bullpen he can hit mid-high 90s and the stuff has always been good for Hickey to play with who knows. He also can be an emergency/spot starter if needed.

[Regular Show]

I know he had a bad year (like a really bad year) but why didn't we offer a minor-league deal and spring invite to former Cubs pitcher Travis Wood? I'm sure he'd love to come back. Maybe he could get back on track pitching in low-leverage situations? You know Maddon would love to have him on the roster and use him in weird non-traditional ways.

 

I mean if he sucks in spring training you release him, or have him pitch in AAA and call him up in case of emergencies.

[Cubswin11]

I know he had a bad year (like a really bad year) but why didn't we offer a minor-league deal and spring invite to former Cubs pitcher Travis Wood? I'm sure he'd love to come back. Maybe he could get back on track pitching in low-leverage situations? You know Maddon would love to have him on the roster and use him in weird non-traditional ways.

 

I mean if he sucks in spring training you release him, or have him pitch in AAA and call him up in case of emergencies.

Based on how he pitched last year I’m not entirely certain he ever sobered up from the 2016 WS parade and celebrations.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I know he had a bad year (like a really bad year) but why didn't we offer a minor-league deal and spring invite to former Cubs pitcher Travis Wood? I'm sure he'd love to come back. Maybe he could get back on track pitching in low-leverage situations? You know Maddon would love to have him on the roster and use him in weird non-traditional ways.

 

I mean if he sucks in spring training you release him, or have him pitch in AAA and call him up in case of emergencies.

 

If everything else was equal, maybe he wanted to be reunited with Bosio more than return to the Cubs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I know he had a bad year (like a really bad year) but why didn't we offer a minor-league deal and spring invite to former Cubs pitcher Travis Wood? I'm sure he'd love to come back. Maybe he could get back on track pitching in low-leverage situations? You know Maddon would love to have him on the roster and use him in weird non-traditional ways.

 

I mean if he sucks in spring training you release him, or have him pitch in AAA and call him up in case of emergencies.

 

I would imagine because Travis wants to make guaranteed money in 2019, and the Tigers offer wayyyy more opportunity for innings that he can use to make his case.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

Yeah, I’d be happy to see Travis back on the Cubs. But after how bad he was last year, I’m not sure him being horrible in Spring Training and inevitably ending up cut is the best reunion possible. Let him go off on his own and try figure things out and we can always try again at some later date.

[Cubswin11]

Levine was just on The Score and was asked something along the lines of other than starter are there any moves we’d see on the periphery before the year. He mentioned a bullpen add, specifically Andrew Cashner. He didn’t say we are talking to him or have a contract offer but he “wouldn’t be surprised” if we got him as a final bullpen piece to be a right-handed version of Monty in the swingman role (he usually doesn’t speculate and usually what he says is sourced a bit).

 

Absolutely sign me up for getting him. He’d be a solid addition and hopefully the stuff would tick up out of the pen and he was a relief pitcher in college.

[Regular Show]

Levine was just on The Score and was asked something along the lines of other than starter are there any moves we’d see on the periphery before the year. He mentioned a bullpen add, specifically Andrew Cashner. He didn’t say we are talking to him or have a contract offer but he “wouldn’t be surprised” if we got him as a final bullpen piece to be a right-handed version of Monty in the swingman role (he usually doesn’t speculate and usually what he says is sourced a bit).

 

Absolutely sign me up for getting him. He’d be a solid addition and hopefully the stuff would tick up out of the pen and he was a relief pitcher in college.

 

Yeah, I like the idea of using A. Cashner as a swingman who goes multiple innings out of the bullpen. I believe Keith Law proposed this idea a couple years ago since it seems like he can never remain healthy/effective as a starter.

 

I'd be down for this as long as Cashner fully buys into the idea. I mean it shouldn't be that hard to convince him. Top relief pitchers are being paid on par with starting pitchers now. It seems like M. Montgomery is itching to be a SP again so maybe we move Montgomery to the SR, and sign Cashner to fill his spot.

 

I'd rather sign Darvish, but Cashner could be really effective out of the bullpen.

[Tim]

Levine was just on The Score and was asked something along the lines of other than starter are there any moves we’d see on the periphery before the year. He mentioned a bullpen add, specifically Andrew Cashner. He didn’t say we are talking to him or have a contract offer but he “wouldn’t be surprised” if we got him as a final bullpen piece to be a right-handed version of Monty in the swingman role (he usually doesn’t speculate and usually what he says is sourced a bit).

 

Absolutely sign me up for getting him. He’d be a solid addition and hopefully the stuff would tick up out of the pen and he was a relief pitcher in college.

He was a reliever here, too. Plus it would feel cool to have him and Rizzo.

 

But I think he's still looking for an old-school team that will look at the shiny ERA from last year and will sign him as a starter. Most teams, though, will look at the fact that he was dead last in K-BB% last year amongst qualified pitchers and stay well away.