Starting Pitching candidates

[davell]

So, it was Phil Rogers, but we have nothing else to talk about yet.....

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/259816146/cubs-may-be-open-to-trading-big-name-players/

 

 

He brought up Archer, Stroman, Manaea, Fulmer, and Nola. I've got doubts that ANY of them outside of Archer will be available(and Tampa still has others to move first), but I guess our position players are pretty damn enticing too....

[Bertz]

Oakland makes a lot of sense as a trade partner, even if it's not for something as big as Manaea. They have a lot of pitching at varying levels of pedigree and proximity to the majors, and not much on the positiom player side outside of 1B and 3B. I could see something big like Happ for Manaea, but just as possible is that Beane likes some of our low-ceiling guys in the high minors and we can turn a few of them into a Kendall Graveman.

[17 Seconds]

charming

[David]

jesus christ you weirdo

[Cubswin11]

I doubt this is anything more than Rogers googling names rumored to be available around this past deadline and just rehashing it “hey the Cubs say the need pitching and likely will trade and these guys were maybe available, here’s a lazy column.” I doubt he has any real info that we are linked to any of these guys (or at least any new info since the deadline).

[davell]

I doubt this is anything more than Rogers googling names rumored to be available around this past deadline and just rehashing it “hey the Cubs say the need pitching and likely will trade and these guys were maybe available, here’s a lazy column.” I doubt he has any real info that we are linked to any of these guys (or at least any new info since the deadline).

 

 

I do agree with this, but there's just not looking like there's going to be a lot that actually is available. If 2 of this group gets dealt this off season, I'd feel pretty confident we got one of them. I'm honestly unsure of my preferences, out of this group. Fulmers medicals seem like he'd be a tough one to trade for over the off season though.

[davell]

By the way, I kind of think whatever pitching trade we make, its going to happen right at the start of the off season.

 

My reason is it'd then give us the entire allotment of FA to consider still. Even potentially, a re-fill type move. Like adding Cozart, if we traded Russell. Or adding Cain, if we trade Almora(or even Schwarber perhaps).

 

It'd also give us the luxury of looking at the FA Starting Pitchers slightly differently. And could conceivably help allocate more to the pen as well.

 

Anyway, I've got a feeling that it'll happen quick. And I'd love to trade off a guy, then put some money into a solid replacement, to help keep our position player depth.

[ConstableRabbit]

So, it was Phil Rogers, but we have nothing else to talk about yet.....

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/259816146/cubs-may-be-open-to-trading-big-name-players/

 

 

He brought up Archer, Stroman, Manaea, Fulmer, and Nola. I've got doubts that ANY of them outside of Archer will be available(and Tampa still has others to move first), but I guess our position players are pretty damn enticing too....

 

I am fully erect for these three and semi for the other two. Fulmer would have been full pre-surgery.

Dude, we don't care about your dong enhancement procedure.

[Cubswin11]

By the way, I kind of think whatever pitching trade we make, its going to happen right at the start of the off season.

 

My reason is it'd then give us the entire allotment of FA to consider still. Even potentially, a re-fill type move. Like adding Cozart, if we traded Russell. Or adding Cain, if we trade Almora(or even Schwarber perhaps).

 

It'd also give us the luxury of looking at the FA Starting Pitchers slightly differently. And could conceivably help allocate more to the pen as well.

 

Anyway, I've got a feeling that it'll happen quick. And I'd love to trade off a guy, then put some money into a solid replacement, to help keep our position player depth.

I generally agree with this and think it's the smart route. Go trade for whoever you want/feel comfortable giving up for a SP very early, sign the FA(s)to replace positional depth lost in the trade (Cozart or Walker if Javy or Russell is traded, can see an argument/reasoning for any of Jay, Cain, Cargo, Seth Smith, Bautista, Carlos Gomez, to replace Happ, Schwarber or Almora), sing FA RP(s), wait out to see which FA SP markets don't materialize (maybe even Jake with the QO, like Dexter)/wait out Otani.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Cubswin11

[Cubswin11]

I doubt this is anything more than Rogers googling names rumored to be available around this past deadline and just rehashing it “hey the Cubs say the need pitching and likely will trade and these guys were maybe available, here’s a lazy column.” I doubt he has any real info that we are linked to any of these guys (or at least any new info since the deadline).

 

 

I do agree with this, but there's just not looking like there's going to be a lot that actually is available. If 2 of this group gets dealt this off season, I'd feel pretty confident we got one of them. I'm honestly unsure of my preferences, out of this group. Fulmers medicals seem like he'd be a tough one to trade for over the off season though.

Obviously acquisition cost needs to be factored in but of those named, I really only have interest in Stroman, Archer and Nola (rumored to be getting an extension so idk if he's really even going to be available). I don't really have interest in Manaea or Fulmer for various reasons (injuries being a main one and also them likely costing more than they are worth/risk I'm willing to take with their profiles).

[Post Count Padder]

Levine mentioned Shark as a potential trade again yesterday. Probably more musings than actual smoke but I am curious what they would be asking for in trade. They were awful this year and have a lot of holes in the lineup (they basically have half an outfield) and the pitching staff.

[Cubswin11]

Levine mentioned Shark as a potential trade again yesterday. Probably more musings than actual smoke but I am curious what they would be asking for in trade. They were awful this year and have a lot of holes in the lineup (they basically have half an outfield) and the pitching staff.

Almora would seem to make sense there, they need a CF and think they have said they want to get better on defense. Don’t know if he’s enough but at least a likely starting point. Secondly, does Tyler Beede have any value anymore? He could be a nice second/third SP added this offseason.

[toonsterwu]

Levine mentioned Shark as a potential trade again yesterday. Probably more musings than actual smoke but I am curious what they would be asking for in trade. They were awful this year and have a lot of holes in the lineup (they basically have half an outfield) and the pitching staff.

Almora would seem to make sense there, they need a CF and think they have said they want to get better on defense. Don’t know if he’s enough but at least a likely starting point. Secondly, does Tyler Beede have any value anymore? He could be a nice second/third SP added this offseason.

 

It really comes down to how much they want to move his contract, and if they are rebuilding. If they are in rebuild mode, I could actually see starting a package with Happ as possibly a decent starting point (not suggesting Happ alone, as Shark would likely get a nice return for them). The only problem, in hypothetical scenarios, with offering OF's is that they are loaded with OF's that are close (Slater - sorta their version of Happ/Reynolds/Duggar/Shaw - should be at first). Almora might hold more intrigue in that regards, as he's clearly better CF than almost all their close guys, with the exception of maybe Duggar.

[toonsterwu]

Where is this whole Nola idea coming from (relative to people that have written about it)? I'm baffled - I don't see anyway the Phillies deal a cost-controlled top young starter unless it is just such a monstrous return they can't say no.

[Post Count Padder]

Where is this whole Nola idea coming from (relative to people that have written about it)? I'm baffled - I don't see anyway the Phillies deal a cost-controlled top young starter unless it is just such a monstrous return they can't say no.

I feel like it's just writers spitballing regarding bad teams + controllable starters. Only way I see Phillies moving him is if it's in a deal for Trout. So, no never gonna happen. He had an incredible year and is their ace for the next several years while they get back into the playoffs.

[davell]

Levine mentioned Shark as a potential trade again yesterday. Probably more musings than actual smoke but I am curious what they would be asking for in trade. They were awful this year and have a lot of holes in the lineup (they basically have half an outfield) and the pitching staff.

Almora would seem to make sense there, they need a CF and think they have said they want to get better on defense. Don’t know if he’s enough but at least a likely starting point. Secondly, does Tyler Beede have any value anymore? He could be a nice second/third SP added this offseason.

 

It really comes down to how much they want to move his contract, and if they are rebuilding. If they are in rebuild mode, I could actually see starting a package with Happ as possibly a decent starting point (not suggesting Happ alone, as Shark would likely get a nice return for them). The only problem, in hypothetical scenarios, with offering OF's is that they are loaded with OF's that are close (Slater - sorta their version of Happ/Reynolds/Duggar/Shaw - should be at first). Almora might hold more intrigue in that regards, as he's clearly better CF than almost all their close guys, with the exception of maybe Duggar.

 

 

You think Shark brings back MORE than just Happ? I don't think theres any way we'd deal Happ straight up for Shark, much less give up more. He's making almost 20 mill a year. He's solid, but he's not an upper echelon pitcher either. If he's available, I can't imagine him bringing back a huge return, unless its to a team that needs his contract paid down heavily, which we don't. I don't think we'd even deal Almora for him. A deal starting with Alzolay, with another guy or two from our top 10(even with our system being down) should be plenty to get Shark. If not, then no thanks. Move on to the next.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I like Shark just fine, but I don't know if I really like him any better than several FA options that are likely to have the same/less cost.

[Cubswin11]

I like Shark just fine, but I don't know if I really like him any better than several FA options that are likely to have the same/less cost.

Agree. I just meant if we targeted him I could see Almora being a piece of interest, not that I’d want to do that. I would rather just sign Cobb, Lynn or even bring back Jake (if the market doesn’t happen for a 5+ year 100+ mil deal) for 3-4 year deals with similar or less aav to Samardzija who all have pretty good chances of being as good or better than Samardzija over the next 3-4 years. If we are giving up one of our major league pieces I want a SP with more upside than Samardzija given there’s similar alternatives available for just cash (and maybe a draft pick).

[champaignchris]

I’m not enthralled with Shark. At this point we know what to expect with him. 200 innings, league average ERA/FIP, 2 WAR. He’s a younger, less charming old John Lackey without the playoff clutch thing. (To the extent such a thing exists.)

 

Trading Almora or Happ for him at 3 years/$59 million versus signing Lynn or Cobb at 4 years/$80 million is a no brainer to go the free agent route. Unless Lynn and Cobb are going to fetch way more than I think they will, trading for Shark only makes sense if Heyward is included in the deal. Add Almora/Happ and get a bullpen arm. Add whatever money and prospects to whichever side to balance out.

 

If we’re going after a failed Giants closer, I’d rather Dyson over Melancon, contracts, age and etc. taken into account. But I think I’d ask about Hunter Strickland first.

[jersey cubs fan]

I’m not enthralled with Shark. At this point we know what to expect with him. 200 innings, league average ERA/FIP, 2 WAR. He’s a younger, less charming old John Lackey

 

I would bet this front office is looking for exactly something like that. There is major value in pitcher that can pitch decently for a full major league season.

[Post Count Padder]

Also, we need two starters, unless the plan is to let Tseng, Butler and Monty compete for the last spot after signing one of Lynn/Cobb/Chatwood. That doesn't seem ideal.

[davell]

I think its extremely likely we get Cobb and trade for a young guy with control too. I also expect Tyson Ross or some other reclamation long shot and probably another Butler type move too. Theo said Monty is going to be in the same role as this year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think its extremely likely we get Cobb and trade for a young guy with control too. I also expect Tyson Ross or some other reclamation long shot and probably another Butler type move too. Theo said Monty is going to be in the same role as this year.

 

yeah, at this point I would put decent money on a FA like Cobb, a trade for a starter that doesn't have a huge salary, a decent commitment to a closer(this could be trading for Hand, signing Davis, etc), and a short term commitment to at least one other reliever. If they luck into Otani they can be more aggressive on some other fronts(closer, OF stalwart).

[Cubswin11]

I still really really like Beede.

Not that the Giants are likely overly inclined to trade him but if he were to be traded, what would it take? I remember liking him going back to the draft he was in.

[davell]

I've got no idea on where they go from a bullpen standpoint, but my GUESS is they're not going to be in on Davis, unless its short term. Based on Theo's comments about finding guys that don't walk people.....I'll say we get Addison Reed. Maybe 3/30 or so? I've seen him projected at up to 4/32. I kind of suspect he'll get a bit more than that personally. And I think they'll get Neshek at 2/18 or so. Then add a lefty on a one year deal. Duensing maybe, maybe Boone Logan, maybe Zach Duke....