Starting next year all HOF votes will be made public

[SouthSideRyan]

Bagwell

Bonds

Clemens

Martinez

Mussina

Raines

Ramirez

Rodriguez

Schilling

Walker

 

This is the only acceptable ballot. Sheffield, Guerrero, and Sosa are all a step behind Walker. And voting for closers is dumb, especially when there's a logjam of deserving candidates and a stupid 10 person per ballot limit.

 

No, that is not the only acceptable ballot. That's dumbass Joe Sheehan inflammatory rhetoric. People can discount time spent at DH or time spent in Coors or defensive metrics or whatever differently than you without being Murray Chass.

 

ETA: I'd add Sosa and Sheffield to ensure they stay on the ballot, and drop Schilling because he's an horsefeathers and ain't getting in this year anyway, and Martinez because of a DH punishment.

Edited December 30, 2016 by SouthSideRyan

[SouthSideRyan]

I am mostly pleased with Chris DeLuca's ballot

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

So who wants to forge his vote next year?

[Rob]

Bagwell

Bonds

Clemens

Martinez

Mussina

Raines

Ramirez

Rodriguez

Schilling

Walker

 

This is the only acceptable ballot. Sheffield, Guerrero, and Sosa are all a step behind Walker. And voting for closers is dumb, especially when there's a logjam of deserving candidates and a stupid 10 person per ballot limit.

 

No, that is not the only acceptable ballot. That's dumbass Joe Sheehan inflammatory rhetoric. People can discount time spent at DH or time spent in Coors or defensive metrics or whatever differently than you without being Murray Chass.

 

ETA: I'd add Sosa and Sheffield to ensure they stay on the ballot, and drop Schilling because he's an horsefeathers and ain't getting in this year anyway, and Martinez because of a DH punishment.

 

Fair enough. Let me rephrase:

 

If you're a math nerd who doesn't care about PEDs or racism, that is the only acceptable ballot -- provided you aren't playing ballot triage in an attempt to get some lesser (but still deserving) candidates a real shot in a year or two.

 

I will admit that there's definitely a need for the triage component. Some candidates who should have been very, very close (Brown, Lofton, Edmonds) have dropped off the ballot with little fanfare while people pretended Jack Morris was something other than a less effective version of Frank Tanana.

 

I want to be receptive to the argument against Schilling solely for his being an awful human being. But this isn't a borderline candidate who broke some laws... His numbers are definitely HOF worthy and he hasn't done anything illegal. I don't see a way to keep him out of the Hall forever. But maybe he's the type who doesn't deserve to enjoy it while he's alive? I dunno.

 

As for Bonds, Clemens, Pudge, and anybody else accused/convicted of PEDS... I don't care. It would appear that everybody in the 90s and early 2000s was using them, and those are the guys who still managed to rise above the rest.

[bukie]

Following the HOF ballot tracker via Ryan Thibodaux, through 143 public ballots there are 8 candidates over 70% : Bagwell, Raines, Rodriguez, and Guerrero are over 75%, Bonds, Clemens, Hoffman and Martinez are above 70.

 

All I want at this point is enough votes for those 8 to get them all in, and enough votes for the other 9 viable candidates (Mussina, Schilling, Walker, Sosa, Wagner, Sheffield, Kent, McGriff, Ramirez) to keep them on the ballot for next year. Lee Smith is not getting voted in, and is off the ballot next year. Posada is the only other name on the ballot that could get enough support to make next year's ballot.

[Rex Buckingham]

I think the character thing with Schilling is laughable. Is he a moron (of whatever other term you want to use)? You bet. Does that mean his playing career was not HOF-worthy? By no means. Plus, the amount of fantastic racists and segregationists in there should kill that argument.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think the character thing with Schilling is laughable. Is he a moron (of whatever other term you want to use)? You bet. Does that mean his playing career was not HOF-worthy? By no means. Plus, the amount of fantastic racists and segregationists in there should kill that argument.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for him, but with more than 10 worthy candidates I'm fine excluding him for a year

[Rex Buckingham]

I think the character thing with Schilling is laughable. Is he a moron (of whatever other term you want to use)? You bet. Does that mean his playing career was not HOF-worthy? By no means. Plus, the amount of fantastic racists and segregationists in there should kill that argument.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for him, but with more than 10 worthy candidates I'm fine excluding him for a year

 

Yeah, that's absolutely a fair perspective.

[OleMissCub]

Was just looking at his stats and only 16 pitchers in history have a higher career WAR than Mussina.

[bukie]

Was just looking at his stats and only 16 pitchers in history have a higher career WAR than Mussina.

Yes and Schilling is right behind him too. There are easily 7-8 no doubt HOFers on the ballot this year thanks to the stupidity of the BBWAA, and the problem is just going to perpetuate until we actually get a year with 6-8 inductees. However, since there's a 10 vote limit and 20 arguable HOF players on the ballot now, the only way that happens would be to shaft actual HOF players on votes like with Lofton, McGwire or Posada this year. When you're the 20th best option on a 10 name ballot with the best hitter and pitcher since racial integration on it, and even they aren't getting inducted things are messed up.

[OleMissCub]

Why the heck should it matter how many inductees there are in a particular year? Is it because the old curmudgeons don't want to sit there all day listening to speeches?

[Cubswin11]

Why the heck should it matter how many inductees there are in a particular year?

Probably because that's how it has always been.... IF BABE RUTH ONLY HAD TWO OTHER GUYS INDUCTED WITH HIM HOW CAN WE EVER HAVE MORE THAN THAT IN A CLASS!?!?! Type nonsense

[OleMissCub]

Why the heck should it matter how many inductees there are in a particular year?

Probably because that's how it has always been.... IF BABE RUTH ONLY HAD TWO OTHER GUYS INDUCTED WITH HIM HOW CAN WE EVER HAVE MORE THAN THAT IN A CLASS!?!?! Type nonsense

 

Hell, even Babe's class (the first class) had 5: Ruth, Johnson, Wagner, Cobb, and Mathewson

 

The first 4 classes had a total of 26

 

http://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/past-inductions/1936-1939

[UMFan83]

I know that he totally doesn't deserve it and this is dumb but I'm sad that it looks like Derrek Lee will likely not receive even 1 HOF vote in his only year on the ballot. I mean if Edgar Renteria and Jason Varitek could each get a pity vote, why can't DLee?

[Regular Show]

I totally agree on the D. Lee for HoF voter recognition. Is he worthy of being inducted into the HoF? Probably not, but he was one of the top hitters in the NL for a few years going. That season he had in 2005 was incredible and it was a shame the Cubs weren't in playoff contention preventing him from getting serious NL MVP consideration. He and A. Ramirez were the best hitters and the best part of those mid-2000's Cubs teams, for sure.

 

The end of his career kinda came to an abrupt end. I'm pretty sure he could still play (and play decently), but teams just weren't offering good enough contracts in his mind I guess. I mean he played pretty well in those 28 games for Pittsburgh in 2011 (.337/.398/.584). I seriously don't understand why no team was interested in him for 2012. He was a damn good defensive 1B in his younger days, and still solid even towards the end of his career.

 

I would love to see him get at least 1 or 2 votes, but yeah, it probably isn't happening...

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Looking at Ryan Thibodaux's HOF tracker, it's starting to feel like only Raines and Bagwell, and maybe Pudge, are going to make the cut this year. I was initially thinking it'd be a big class. Anything less than 4 or 5 inductees a year for the next several years is dumb and wrong.

[SouthSideRyan]

I know that he totally doesn't deserve it and this is dumb but I'm sad that it looks like Derrek Lee will likely not receive even 1 HOF vote in his only year on the ballot. I mean if Edgar Renteria and Jason Varitek could each get a pity vote, why can't DLee?

 

Needs to follow JD's lead.

 

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-01-07/sports/0101070012_1_jim-deshaies-hall-of-fame-baseball-hall

[Banedon]

Really seems they oughta have an evening MLB special to announce the HOF class rather than announce it midday, mid-week.

[UMFan83]

Really seems they oughta have an evening MLB special to announce the HOF class rather than announce it midday, mid-week.

 

Isn't the offical announcement at 5PM CT on MLB Network?

[Banedon]

Really seems they oughta have an evening MLB special to announce the HOF class rather than announce it midday, mid-week.

 

Isn't the offical announcement at 5PM CT on MLB Network?

 

I'd seen on twitter that it was at 2pm. Now that I google it, it seems you're right...so obviously I withdraw my complaint.

[sweetpeteman]

Elected:

 

Bagwell

Raines

Pudge

 

 

 

That's it.

 

Writers are still really horsefeathering stupid and need to be culled.

[sweetpeteman]

The full totals:

 

381 Jeff Bagwell 86.2%

380 Tim Raines 86.0%

336 Ivan Rodriguez 76.0%

327 Trevor Hoffman 74.0%

317 Vladimir Guerrero 71.7%

259 Edgar Martinez 58.6%

239 Roger Clemens 54.1%

238 Barry Bonds 53.8%

229 Mike Mussina 51.8%

199 Curt Schilling 45.0%

151 Lee Smith 34.2%

105 Manny Ramirez 23.8%

97 Larry Walker 21.9%

96 Fred McGriff 21.7%

74 Jeff Kent 16.7%

59 Gary Sheffield 13.3%

45 Billy Wagner 10.2%

38 Sammy Sosa 8.6%

17 Jorge Posada 3.8%

3 Magglio Ordonez 0.7%

2 Edgar Renteria 0.5%

2 Jason Varitek 0.5%

1 Tim Wakefield 0.2%

0 Corey Blake 0.0%

0 Pat Burrell 0.0%

0 Orlando Cabrera 0.0%

0 Mike Cameron 0.0%

0 J.D. Drew 0.0%

0 Carlos Guillen 0.0%

0 Derrek Lee 0.0%

0 Melvin Mora 0.0%

0 Arthur Rhodes 0.0%

0 Freddy Sanchez 0.0%

0 Matt Stairs 0.0%

Hoffman was 5 votes short, Vlad 15

[Derwood]

Hoffman missed by 2 or 3 votes

[bcl412]

Is it steroids keeping Sammy out? Because didn't Pudge and Bagwell have accusations too? Or are writers really taking the corked bat that seriously? I hate the baseball hall of fame so much....

[davell]

2018 1st time ballot guys are Chipper, Thome, Vizquel, Andruw Jones, and Rolen......Chipper is a lock, I'd say Thome is a 1st ballot guy too.

 

Vlad and Hoffman will get in next year and my guess is a class of 4 will be it(plus vet committee?). Edgar will get in on his last ballot. Feel comfortable Bonds and Clemens get in at some point.

 

 

My question is on A. Jones, Rolen, and Vizquel......Are they HOFers? I'm not asking sabermetrically(yet). Just wonder if you think any of this group gets in?

 

With all ballots published from here on out, I think that will increase the number of check marks. I also think a few more of the old timers start to fade off from voting and the newer guys gaining the voting ability will add even a bit more sabermetric feel to things. Which helps get more of this group in.

 

I am all for 10+ currently eligible guys to get in. But, it is kind of funny watching the sabermetric community literally bully some of these guys ballots. As much as I agree with their thought processes, there is a hell of a lot of smugness with some of them. There's truly not a right or wrong answer to this(outside of Chass for just trying to be a dick). But some of these guys truly do act like their opinion is all that matters.

[OleMissCub]

Is it steroids keeping Sammy out? Because didn't Pudge and Bagwell have accusations too? Or are writers really taking the corked bat that seriously? I hate the baseball hall of fame so much....

 

I guess writers are punishing Sosa more because he was actually caught with a positive test. Bagwell and Pudge were most certainly juicers too but because they were never caught they are being allowed in.