Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Hell, every single person here has cheered at least once for John Lackey at some point this season.

 

I cheer for him to do well every time. No lie.

[Derwood]

Welcome to the new Brian Roberts thread

[Butterscup]

He can still be a piece of [expletive], but I don't have to root for him. To me, the Cubs winning with him doesn't lessen it or anything; he's just the [expletive] who came along for the ride.

 

perfectly said. definitely don't understand (or believe) the people that say a cubs world series would be lessened for them because chapman is on the team

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I almost want him not because I truly want him but because I dont want Washington to get him.

[Hawk4Hall]

I want no part of this deal.

 

Keith Law seems to think there will be no extension.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

I just heard from a friend that a friend of his that works for Myrtle Beach told him that Gleyber was packing his stuff up and saying good byes.

[ctcf]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse horsefeathers. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-investigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that. Edited July 25, 2016 by ctcf

[soccer10k]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-ivestigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Keith Law seems to think there will be no extension.

 

He's saying that the Cubs shouldn't be adding trade value to get an extended Chapman because they can do that in free agency in a few months. He(and several others parroting that logic) are not correct. Certainty matters.

[Thrilho]

i totally, 100%, understand everyone's hesitation with the deal. at this point in my life, i've been able to split up the person vs. the player. chapman the person is a huge piece of [expletive], no doubt about that. thankfully, i don't have to spend any time with him or have him around my house. he's an awesome player and i'd love to watch him help my team win. not saying that's the right way to approach it at all, but on a moral level this trade wouldn't impact me that much. i've rooted for terrible people most of my life, because a lot of athletes are [expletive].

Yeah I didn't make any mention of the moral side of this in my love fest for the deal, this is a solid summary. I think Torres for Chapman + 4 years is a great baseball value. I don't know what a lot of guys do in their free time.

 

I really hope he didn't beat his girl. If I had proof it would be real tough to root for him. If he's getting crazy and firing off a gun in her presence that's also horrible. But I don't know context and I honestly don't know how a lot of guys live. If the Cubs are able get him around their clubhouse and make him a great guy would that offset the karma at all?

 

When the Bears picked up Marshall he was a domestic abuser. He then got very active with his charity raising (I don't know how much but my gut was at lest a million) for his charity. If Chapman buys into the scene the Cubs have, signs a long term deal with some agreements for being a better dude, does whatever good that comes from that help offset things?

 

Not sure on any of this and not sure how I'd feel if the deal went through and I saw him pitching every night in blue. But if they do get him and do sign him up long term it's going to to be tough to fight myself every time he comes out rather than cheer against the guy he just made look foolish.

 

So no idea how I'll feel yet from a "being a person" perspective but that deal with the extension seems to make sense from a baseball value perspective.

[David]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-ivestigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

I don't have any issue with what you're saying or how you feel, but how did you feel about Starlin Castro?

[Butterscup]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-ivestigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

 

or sammy sosa ever

[Bote McBoteface]

Don't care about his past, don't know the full story of what happened, don't care. Starlin was an accused rapist, and Lackey is Lackey. 4 years of Chapman and Torres is the headliner? Please get it done. I will occasionally complain about how much of a dbag he is, but that'll just be to pass the time until the playoffs.

 

PS Theo/Hoyer are the bestest

[UMFan83]

I'm personally in the camp of: I'd rather the Cubs not get him, lose a little respect for the org but I will still root for him to be successful as a Cub while not actually rooting for him personally. I understand this is a big gray area that I'm not sure how I'll sort out but worse case there are 23 other Cubs that I generally like (you can guess the other one) so I am not going to start rooting against the team because one scumbag (or two) plays for them.

[ctcf]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-ivestigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

 

Honestly I never felt genuinely comfortable with him being a Cub after that. I'm glad they traded him.

[ctcf]

As for Sosa, I'm actually gonna have to claim total ignorance on that front re: him and domestic violence. Cannot recall ever hearing about any, which seems weird if that was the case.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-investigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

Are you a Bears fan? Or rather, were you a Bears fan after they signed Ray McDonald? Honest question. I'd imagine if we complete this deal, same thing applies. He messes up in the slightest bit and he's gone.

[David]

As for Sosa, I'm actually gonna have to claim total ignorance on that front re: him and domestic violence. Cannot recall ever hearing about any, which seems weird if that was the case.

 

There was a story going back to the early 90's, I think, of him hitting his wife over the head with a rum bottle or something like that. Who knows how legit it was.

Edited July 25, 2016 by David

[ctcf]

Regarding Castro, I'm sure I wasn't this outspoken at the time re: him. I imagine I was pretty bummed. I also don't think I had the same level of appreciation for the implications of what that meant. He certainly went from being one of my favorite Cubs to one of my least favorite. It kinda creeped me out when people were really upset about him being traded. I also kinda find it weird when people still miss him. Edited July 25, 2016 by ctcf

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-ivestigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

 

Honestly I never felt genuinely comfortable with him being a Cub after that. I'm glad they traded him.

 

I respect your morals. I really do. But in a way you should stop cheering for a team then. Because you are cheering for some bad guys, no doubt. And you don't know which ones those are, yes, but just knowing that there are bad guys in a group and you cheer for the group doesn't make it any better.

 

I suppose you could make the argument that all 25 guys on a roster are close to squeaky clean. But then you are being naive.

[Old Style]

If Rizzo and Lester are OK with it (Im assuming they would be consulted) along with Joe, then I'm fine with it, too. Plus it'll piss off Dusty.

I'd be shocked if Theo was consulting Rizzo & Lester (or any players really) on any deal. Maddon, sure.

[Bigloubaby]

I couldn't care less about his past. I just want to win it all. Give me nine Barry bonds out there and if we win I'm good.

 

My issue is, timely hitting (much like today with rizzo) is gonna win us a World Series. Not some reliever.

 

It's a huge upgrade to the pen, no doubt, but hitting the ball, like we didn't do against the mets last year, is what's going to win us the chip

[David]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-investigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

Are you a Bears fan? Or rather, were you a Bears fan after they signed Ray McDonald? Honest question. I'd imagine if we complete this deal, same thing applies. He messes up in the slightest bit and he's gone.

 

Brandon Marshall is a better example...most of us LOVED him (when he was good at football).

[Butterscup]

As for Sosa, I'm actually gonna have to claim total ignorance on that front re: him and domestic violence. Cannot recall ever hearing about any, which seems weird if that was the case.

 

There was a story going back to the early 90's, I think, of him hitting his wife over the head with a rum bottle or something like that. Who knows how legit it was.

 

i actually thought there was something while he was with the cubs too but it appears i made that up at some point, can't find anything other than the 1990 one

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-ivestigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

I think that's a very logical train of thought, I'd be interested to see you take it to conclusion. If every team logically applies it does it end with Chapman being blackballed? That could bring a collusion lawsuit to MLB's door. Maybe it's one they'd win because athletes are ultimately entertainers and teams don't want to alienate a percentage of their fanbase and everyone is happy except for Chapman, a proper outcome.

 

There's also a logical train of thought that says that people can make make mistakes, even egregious ones, and still be worthwhile humans after being punished. This is something the internet handles poorly, partially because so many real injustices go without true punishment, and also because it's easier to think in binary terms. I don't think it's an incompatible viewpoint to think that Chapman's case should have been scrutinized more by law enforcement, but also that he shouldn't be punished for things that only public perception claims he has done. In the case of Chapman it's easier to claim that perception is reality, in other cases it's far less clear, and personally I'd rather the team not be the arbiter there. That's why on one end of the seriousness spectrum I think it's dumb how people like Zobrist or Coghlan less for their walkup music, and on the other end I'm not going to be furious with the Cubs for acquiring Chapman(especially when they aren't profiting off his situation like the Yankees did when the accusations first arrived).