The Cardinals

[NOLA]

It really is a win-win, but I think going to another team would be more entertaining from an "angry social media" perspective.

Exactly. Seeing him sign with another team and play at an All Star level would be glorious. BFIB would unleash the full Royce Clayton treatment on the new catcher.

[Banedon]

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[David]

where's my fellow kolton wong hating friend bob sanders

 

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[David]

saw this in the GRB thread about Wong

 

There's not a team in the league that'd pass on him because he doesn't make a lot and still has the upside label attached to him.

 

Downside is he's not very good and we'd be trading him at his lowest value to date.

 

 

would the cubs even roster him?

[Aaron_Kennelly]

saw this in the GRB thread about Wong

 

There's not a team in the league that'd pass on him because he doesn't make a lot and still has the upside label attached to him.

 

Downside is he's not very good and we'd be trading him at his lowest value to date.

 

 

would the cubs even roster him?

 

The Iowa Cubs would.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

where's my fellow kolton wong hating friend bob sanders

 

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as much as I'd like to say PLAY THAT MAN AT 2B EVERY DAY because he's so terrible, I think I'd rather see him rot at Pawtucket or something just so I don't have to see him anymore. because he's so terrible

[Cubswin11]

Wong is pretty bad and yeah he wouldn't make our 25 man sure there's a team like the Padres who'd take him.

 

I also thought the Cardinals were going to focus on defense this year, so..... putting at Gyorko at 2B over Wong seems counterintuitive

[mikeyt34]

Wong is pretty bad and yeah he wouldn't make our 25 man sure there's a team like the Padres who'd take him.

 

I also thought the Cardinals were going to focus on defense this year, so..... putting at Gyorko at 2B over Wong seems counterintuitive

 

Carp at 1st, Gyorko at 2nd, Diaz at SS, and Peralta at 3rd. That's gotta be the worst defensive infield in the league by a long shot right? I can't think of any worse.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

I have doubts that the Cards finish above .500.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I have doubts that the Cards finish above .500.

 

But then they'd get rid of Matheny.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

I have doubts that the Cards finish above .500.

 

But then they'd get rid of Matheny.

 

True. But it would be quite fun to watch their patchwork rotation completely unravel, leaving them only with a lineup of the same identity as last year -- replete with bad defense, horrible base running and only able to score via the long ball -- except with less pop this time around.

[mikeyt34]

I have doubts that the Cards finish above .500.

 

Like most teams it probably all depends on how well their pitching performs. They have a ton of question marks in their rotation ranging from guys coming back from injury to under performing last year, Martinez is the only sure fire bet. Their bullpen is pretty good so not too many issues there. They shouldn't have too many problems scoring and should be a top ten scoring offense. The defense is going to cost them dearly several time this year, they are just awful defensively, their range is atrocious.

 

I agree with you Duke, they may be lucky to win 81 games if their rotation falters. If their rotation steps up they'll be in the fight for at least a wild card.

[mul21]

I have doubts that the Cards finish above .500.

 

Like most teams it probably all depends on how well their pitching performs. They have a ton of question marks in their rotation ranging from guys coming back from injury to under performing last year, Martinez is the only sure fire bet. Their bullpen is pretty good so not too many issues there. They shouldn't have too many problems scoring and should be a top ten scoring offense. The defense is going to cost them dearly several time this year, they are just awful defensively, their range is atrocious.

 

I agree with you Duke, they may be lucky to win 81 games if their rotation falters. If their rotation steps up they'll be in the fight for at least a wild card.

 

The generally sub par defense, especially on the infield, is going to wreak as much havoc on guys like Leake as it did last year and it's going to make the pitching staff look markedly worse than it probably really is.

[Brian]

I wonder what that guy that kept updating his jersey with the number of years since the Cubs won the WS is going to do now? I almost feel bad for the guy. (no not really)

 

My guess is maybe 11.

[Cubswin11]

Heyman and Rosenthal both reporting progress on a new deal with Molina. This could be laughable

[d_money]

I have doubts that the Cards finish above .500.

 

Like most teams it probably all depends on how well their pitching performs. They have a ton of question marks in their rotation ranging from guys coming back from injury to under performing last year, Martinez is the only sure fire bet. Their bullpen is pretty good so not too many issues there. They shouldn't have too many problems scoring and should be a top ten scoring offense. The defense is going to cost them dearly several time this year, they are just awful defensively, their range is atrocious.

 

I agree with you Duke, they may be lucky to win 81 games if their rotation falters. If their rotation steps up they'll be in the fight for at least a wild card.

 

The generally sub par defense, especially on the infield, is going to wreak as much havoc on guys like Leake as it did last year and it's going to make the pitching staff look markedly worse than it probably really is.

My bro in law is a huge Cards fan - thinks they're gonna win 90 games. I'm like - really?

[Banedon]

 

 

 

[Tryptamine]

Heyman and Rosenthal both reporting progress on a new deal with Molina. This could be laughable

 

3 years at 18M a year is a number that keeps getting thrown out there. If that's the case, then I'm going to be doing a lot of laughing.

[David]

Heyman and Rosenthal both reporting progress on a new deal with Molina. This could be laughable

 

3 years at 18M a year is a number that keeps getting thrown out there. If that's the case, then I'm going to be doing a lot of laughing.

 

I really wouldn't be at all surprised if he managed to exceed that value. I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't, also...but, worst case, even if he's terrible for half of it or something, it's not a whole lot of money or time.

 

His performance last year was worth in the neighborhood of $20M, without any accounting for being one of the better framers in the league. Next year, he's projected to be perform around that or a nominal amount better.

 

There's also some small amount of value to doing right by a lifelong team guy who had a great career for your organization, even if it does go a little bad.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Molina is already signed for '17, so a 3 year deal covers the years he turns 36-38. Even for a catcher he has a ton of miles on his legs, he's caught at least 130 games 7 of the last 8 years, and the one that he didn't he missed 7 weeks with an injury. He's only one season removed from a 1.3 fWAR season, although that probably undersells his defensive contributions. He did bounce back last year, but it was largely BABIP fueled, as he's not at all likely to repeat a .335 BABIP. Going back down to his career average of .300 puts him below average again, and that's before we get into any age-specific decline, like how his CS% fell off a cliff to below average last year. Again, framing and other defensive abilities are probably undersold, so you probably aren't paying upwards of 20 million for a well below average catcher, but when you have to squint a bit to get to an outcome where Molina gives you 6-7 wins over those 3 years, then giving him 55+ million for those years is not a good decision.

[UMFan83]

"The key is to pay for future performance, not past performance" - Theo Epstein

[David]

Molina is already signed for '17, so a 3 year deal covers the years he turns 36-38. Even for a catcher he has a ton of miles on his legs, he's caught at least 130 games 7 of the last 8 years, and the one that he didn't he missed 7 weeks with an injury. He's only one season removed from a 1.3 fWAR season, although that probably undersells his defensive contributions. He did bounce back last year, but it was largely BABIP fueled, as he's not at all likely to repeat a .335 BABIP. Going back down to his career average of .300 puts him below average again, and that's before we get into any age-specific decline, like how his CS% fell off a cliff to below average last year. Again, framing and other defensive abilities are probably undersold, so you probably aren't paying upwards of 20 million for a well below average catcher, but when you have to squint a bit to get to an outcome where Molina gives you 6-7 wins over those 3 years, then giving him 55+ million for those years is not a good decision.

 

I'm not saying it is, purely on a $/win standpoint. I just don't think it's some automatic laughable disaster. $18M is not a ton of money in today's game, and it's for 3 years. They're likely to get some negative value out of it but it's not something that will hamstring them in any significant way unless they choose for that to be the case.

 

And there's at least some value (I have no idea how to quantify it) in avoiding pissing off the vast majority of your fanbase by letting him walk.

 

If they had some readily available replacement coming up in the minors, I might feel differently...but vs replacing him with Montero or Hundley or whatever after 17...meh.

 

If they actually were to replace him with Lucroy, then, well, yeah.

[David]

"The key is to pay for future performance, not past performance" - Theo Epstein

 

it'll be interesting to see how we feel about this when rizzo is hitting FA at 33 or whatever

 

(i.e. if we decide the right move is to let him go, i'd deal with it - but i'm not sure that's gonna go over that well here)

 

in building this team, it was easy enough to deal with the minor backlash from the rebuild (especially with how little there was), but after this team rips through the league for a few years, it'll be interesting to see if the FO can still stick to their guns and only make the best calculated move for the baseball team w/out regard to PR. given the FO's history, the talent pipeline should be there to allow for it.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cardinals have a ton of money, I'm really not going to be doing cartwheels if he have to overpay their catcher for a couple seasons.

[NonProfitCow]

 

If they had some readily available replacement coming up in the minors, I might feel differently...but vs replacing him with Montero or Hundley or whatever after 17...meh.

 

If they actually were to replace him with Lucroy, then, well, yeah.

They have one of the top ranked catching prospects, #65 overall per BA, in AAA.