jon lester pickoff yips thread

[Clem Fandango]

No, I started to think he was overrated when it came to light that he #1 cant field his position and #2 requires a washed up catcher

 

It was a foregone conclusion that whoever signed Lester was signing Ross, not a surprise. And the amount of fielding opportunities a pitcher has in a given year is more important than his ability to pitch?

 

So basically our pitcher is overrated because the Cubs signed David Ross and he doesn't throw to first base well?

 

Makes sense to me. Trade him for big league chew.

[Sammy Sofa]

To me, this is similar to front offices learning about pitch framing about the same time fans did. You'd think Theo would've beaten the general population to that info, but it looks like he caught on about when we did. You'd think other teams would've known about Lester's yips before this season, and maybe some had an idea, but I think it's clearly more well-known and more of an issue now. He went through a long stretch of never throwing to 1st. At least then there was the possibility that he COULD pick someone off and was just doing the whole Maddux thing and not caring. Now, it's clear that he can't. He has two throws this season - a lob that was not on line to the base, and a harder throw that was 30 feet away from Rizzo. He hasn't thrown over since.

 

And he didn't throw over at all last year. And 7 times the year before and 5 times the year before that. I remember watching at least a couple nationally broadcasted games where he was starting over the last couple of years where the announcers or the reporter talking about him not being "comfortable" throwing over, so I highly doubt this was a thing teams didn't realize.

 

Again, I'm not saying overall he doesn't stink at it, but is it really a serious problem as opposed to mostly just being a problem with Billy Hamilton? If Hamilton doesn't exist are we even discussing this?

 

The idea that it was a forgone conclusion that whatever team had to sign him would also have to sign Ross bugs me a lot more. What storied history do these guys have? Before this year they played, what, two seasons together over the years?

[Guest]

Again, I'm not saying overall he doesn't stink at it, but is it really a serious problem as opposed to mostly just being a problem with Billy Hamilton? If Hamilton doesn't exist are we even discussing this?

 

Stolen base attempts, excluding Hamilton

 

Lester: 13 GS, 10/13 SB

Arrieta: 12 GS, 6/11 SB

Hammel: 12 GS, 5/8 SB

Hendricks: 12 GS, 3/3 SB

[imb]

i mean, david ross is *really bad* and lester looks obviously uncomfortable when there's any kind of running threat on first base. it's not weird to be a little annoyed at that

[Clem Fandango]

Annoyed is fine. Thinking he's overrated and overpaid because of it is looney toons.

[jersey cubs fan]

Annoyed is fine. Thinking he's overrated and overpaid because of it is looney toons.

Not necessarily.

 

There's a very good chance that his own personal defensive struggles could make it so the actual results of his games pitched would be worse than the measurable results based on his pitching performance alone.

 

 

That being said, I think people are stupidly obsessed with baserunning and more scared of giving up stolen bases than they should be.

[Gilby]

To me, this is similar to front offices learning about pitch framing about the same time fans did. You'd think Theo would've beaten the general population to that info, but it looks like he caught on about when we did. You'd think other teams would've known about Lester's yips before this season, and maybe some had an idea, but I think it's clearly more well-known and more of an issue now. He went through a long stretch of never throwing to 1st. At least then there was the possibility that he COULD pick someone off and was just doing the whole Maddux thing and not caring. Now, it's clear that he can't. He has two throws this season - a lob that was not on line to the base, and a harder throw that was 30 feet away from Rizzo. He hasn't thrown over since.

 

And he didn't throw over at all last year. And 7 times the year before and 5 times the year before that. I remember watching at least a couple nationally broadcasted games where he was starting over the last couple of years where the announcers or the reporter talking about him not being "comfortable" throwing over, so I highly doubt this was a thing teams didn't realize.

 

Again, I'm not saying overall he doesn't stink at it, but is it really a serious problem as opposed to mostly just being a problem with Billy Hamilton? If Hamilton doesn't exist are we even discussing this?

 

The idea that it was a forgone conclusion that whatever team had to sign him would also have to sign Ross bugs me a lot more. What storied history do these guys have? Before this year they played, what, two seasons together over the years?

 

I don't think it's a serious problem. I just don't think it's a total non-issue. I'd be curious to see if he can field a ball and throw to 2nd to turn a DP. I have a feeling he'd decide to under-hand to 1st base instead. Again, not huge, but it could cost us at some point.

 

I have a feeling this Ross stuff was totally Theo's idea to make his old buddy feel comfortable in a new place. Maybe I'm giving Lester too much credit, but I don't think he demanded signing Ross or anything like that. But I could be way off.

[SouthSideRyan]

Annoyed is fine. Thinking he's overrated and overpaid because of it is looney toons.

 

He's probably both overrated and "overpaid"

 

We also probably reallllly shouldn't care about either of those things.

[Clem Fandango]

Annoyed is fine. Thinking he's overrated and overpaid because of it is looney toons.

 

He's probably both overrated and "overpaid"

 

But probably not because he doesn't like throwing to first

 

We also probably reallllly shouldn't care about either of those things.

 

Agreed

[abuck1220]

kinda torn on that ump/lester situation from yesterday. on one hand, umpires are the worst people on earth and i long for the day where they are all unemployed panhandlers. obviously an ump that practically charges the mound should be first in line to be put down. on the other hand, lester sucks and whines a lot.

[SouthSideRyan]

If framing stats are to be believed, Jon Lester is probably literally the last person in MLB to complain about ball/strike calls.

[sontensei]

kinda torn on that ump/lester situation from yesterday. on one hand, umpires are the worst people on earth and i long for the day where they are all unemployed panhandlers. obviously an ump that practically charges the mound should be first in line to be put down. on the other hand, lester sucks and whines a lot.

 

replace them with statcast robots!

[Sammy Sofa]

For a team filled with swell young gents, Lester really seems to stick out as a crotchety, unlikable douche. No doubt that's due in large part to frustration over how his season has gone, but I still have the sneaking suspicion he probably is into something real evil, like spitting on filthy street urchins or something.

[abuck1220]

for me, it's 50% that he sucks, 25% david ross-related, 25% for that necklace.

[Sammy Sofa]

for me, it's 50% that he sucks, 25% david ross-related, 25% for that necklace.

 

Good call; that necklace triggers a Pavlovian response of dislike.

 

Plus it's all kinds of shammy medical woo:

 

http://www.medpagetoday.com/CelebrityDiagnosis/42609

[seanimal]

for me, it's 50% that he sucks, 25% david ross-related, 25% for that necklace.

 

for me it's 100% that he's not max scherzer

[Derwood]

For a team filled with swell young gents, Lester really seems to stick out as a crotchety, unlikable douche. No doubt that's due in large part to frustration over how his season has gone, but I still have the sneaking suspicion he probably is into something real evil, like spitting on filthy street urchins or something.

 

It's not just the season. He came off as an unfriendly, crotchety guy at the Cubs Convention too. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there

[jersey cubs fan]

For a team filled with swell young gents, Lester really seems to stick out as a crotchety, unlikable douche. No doubt that's due in large part to frustration over how his season has gone, but I still have the sneaking suspicion he probably is into something real evil, like spitting on filthy street urchins or something.

 

It's not just the season. He came off as an unfriendly, crotchety guy at the Cubs Convention too. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there

 

I can't imagine more than a handful of players would actually want to be at the Cubs Convention. Former players in need of attention and a paycheck sure, but I would be skeptical of actual current players that wanted to be there.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cubs Convention looks, sounds and smells like the lamest circle of Hell. He gets a pass on that.

[Guest]

The Cubs Convention looks, sounds and smells like the lamest circle of Hell. He gets a pass on that.

 

yup

[Banedon]

The Cubs Convention looks, sounds and smells like the lamest circle of Hell. He gets a pass on that.

 

https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I wish Scherzer had pitched for Epstein in Boston.

[Sammy Sofa]

I wish Scherzer had pitched for Epstein in Boston.

 

That's surprising; I would have figured you had read somewhere that aging curve for starting pitchers ended at, like, 22.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I wish Scherzer had pitched for Epstein in Boston.

 

That's surprising; I would have figured you had read somewhere that aging curve for starting pitchers ended at, like, 22.

 

Pitchers don't have much of a curve. They just are who they are until they change spontaneously or their arm blows up.

[seanimal]

I wish Scherzer had pitched for Epstein in Boston.

 

That's surprising; I would have figured you had read somewhere that aging curve for starting pitchers ended at, like, 22.

 

Pitchers don't have much of a curve. They just are who they are until they change spontaneously or their arm blows up.

 

i wouldn't have a problem with this being so utterly wrong if it wasn't stated so confidently as if it originated from a legitimate authority on the subject