2015 Bears Offseason (Foxy new Head Coach page 104)

[Banedon]

There's no justifying contracts?

 

Please amuse me.

 

There's a few elite QB's that maybe someone could say justify their contracts. Then there's a whole middle tier of "meh" QB's that get paid too much because nobody wants to be stuck with the really crappy ones. The "meh" QB's get paid too much and can never live up to the money they get. It's just how the NFL works.

[jersey cubs fan]

Before this year, he was on IR in '11 for 6 games, missed 2 games with the concussion against the Giants in 12', and last year missed several games with groin/ankle injuries.

.

 

great googily moogily.

[Guest]

Here's how you justify contracts;

1. How much did this contract hamper me from building the team while the player was here

2. How much did this contract hamper me from building the team after the player is gone

[Guest]

There's no justifying contracts?

 

Please amuse me.

 

There's a few elite QB's that maybe someone could say justify their contracts. Then there's a whole middle tier of "meh" QB's that get paid too much because nobody wants to be stuck with the really crappy ones. The "meh" QB's get paid too much and can never live up to the money they get. It's just how the NFL works.

 

Too much by what standard?

[jersey cubs fan]

Cutler has not prevented the Bears from going out and getting players to make the team better. The Bears have not been better because they haven't drafted well enough and their coaches have been horrible (with the exception of Lovie/defensive coaches during most of Lovie's tenure).

[Guest]

Cutler will be the 11th most paid QB in 2015. Slightly more than Alex Smith, slightly less than Sam Bradford.

 

You're picking and choosing at this point.

 

And the 22.5 mil last year was ranked?

 

Where his DYAR was 16th, DVOA was 21st, and his QBR was 25th among the qualified QBs?

 

That's right, it was the largest cap hit in the League.

 

We're judging him based on the length of his contract, which will be a 3yr deal before he gets cut.

 

1st year was a failure, he has to have 2 good to great years to justify it at this point.

 

So if Goony wants to parrot Stannis with his meatball talk and how Chicago fans love to hate their "anchors", look at Cutler's production last year and the cap space he will be occupying over the 3 years of his deal. If Cutler can somehow increase his production ala Romo, then he'll justify that contract. After year one, he didn't, there's no advanced statistical measure that quantifies that he came close to being worth that contract.

 

That's not all Cutler's fault (he is too prone with the turnovers and not this year but in years' past been injury prone).

 

injury prone, lol. [expletive] off meatball.

 

there is no justifying contracts. you pay what you pay so you don't have to go be Tennessee or Jacksonville or Tampa Bay or require a herculean effort from your defense just to go 9-7 and miss the playoffs like Buffalo.

 

Before this year, he was on IR in '11 for 6 games, missed 2 games with the concussion against the Giants in 12', and last year missed several games with groin/ankle injuries.

 

There's no justifying contracts?

 

Please amuse me.

 

so you're going to count being struck in the head with a helmet and getting your thumb mangled in a facemask while making a touchdown-saving tackle after one of your receivers fell down in front of a cb as being injury prone? yeah, you a see how you a meatball.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Stannis

[Banedon]

There's no justifying contracts?

 

Please amuse me.

 

There's a few elite QB's that maybe someone could say justify their contracts. Then there's a whole middle tier of "meh" QB's that get paid too much because nobody wants to be stuck with the really crappy ones. The "meh" QB's get paid too much and can never live up to the money they get. It's just how the NFL works.

 

Too much by what standard?

 

Simplistic reactionary standards. People can look at Brady/Rodgers/Manning and say "man, they are worth every penny".

 

People can look at the bottom of the league QB's and say "man, they don't deserve to get paid any more than the little they're getting paid".

 

But that whole middle tier of QB's are where fans can point and say "OMG why do they get so much?" And it's because NFL teams would rather pay to have an middle tier QB and pray that it's enough, or that they turn into someone special, than not pay and have a bottom of the barrel QB.

[Guest]

sulley, you're really not helping things stomping all over Brandon's very well-reasoned post with an angry storm of rage-farts.

 

i don't think i'm raging. it's just that everyone has lost their [expletive] minds when it comes to Jay Cutler. it's like they expect him to be Aaron Rodgers or something.

 

Jay Cutler is a starting quarterback in the NFL, starting quarterbacks get paid and many starting-level QBs become the highest paid in the league at one point or another, based on when they sign their deals

[UK1679666180]

Cutler will be the 11th most paid QB in 2015. Slightly more than Alex Smith, slightly less than Sam Bradford.

 

You're picking and choosing at this point.

 

And the 22.5 mil last year was ranked?

 

Where his DYAR was 16th, DVOA was 21st, and his QBR was 25th among the qualified QBs?

 

That's right, it was the largest cap hit in the League.

 

That's kinda my point. Where he ranks contract-wise doesn't matter, because they structured the contract to give him more money in the first year simply for cap flexibility later in the contract. It looks ridiculous now because he clearly had a bad year. But at the time, it made a lot of sense.

 

The other point is that there's some mediocre QB's that are making way too much money (Smith/Bradford) because there's such a dearth of QB talent out there.

 

Yep, Bears gave Cutler too much money. Emery lost his job over it. That doesn't change the fact that Cutler is the best the Bears can do as far as QB talent right now, and the best move is to make the best we can of it.

 

We're judging him based on the length of his contract, which will be a 3yr deal before he cuts.

 

1st year was a failure, he has to have 2 good to great years to justify it at this point.

 

 

 

So if Goony wants to parrot Stannis with his meatball talk and how Chicago fans love to hate their "anchors", look at Cutler's production last year and the cap space he will occupying over the 3 years of his deal. If Cutler can somehow increase his production ala Romo, then he'll justify that contract. After year one, he didn't, there's no advanced statistical measure that quantifies that he came close to being worth that contract.

 

That's not all Cutler's fault (he is too prone with the turnovers and not this year but in years' past been injury prone).

 

The problem is you're worrying about him being "worth the contract". Put it out of your head. He's not going to be "worth the contract". Like you said, it's almost impossible for him to be so. There was almost no way for Alfonso Soriano to justify his contract, and there's little chance that Derrick Rose ever justifies his contract. That doesn't mean that those players can't, or in Soriano's case didn't, perform very solidly and be a highly productive member of their teams.

 

I was for the contract, I was wrong and should've looked at it more carefully but I thought at the time it was a good deal.

 

He's here and if play doesn't improve from him, he'll be an anchor for two more years (Hell, Smith and Cutler were similar as far as production last year)

 

I just find it funny when someone says Cutler had a bad year that it's some kind of stereotype that exists because the avg. Bears fan always wants the backup QB.

 

 

 

Cutler should be the starter because like you said, they don't have anyone better and the draft class is poor (although, I'd consider trading down for Hundley depending if he falls and let him develop) and lacks character.

 

Cutler isn't the reason why they sucked, he was an above avg. QB in talent that played below avg last year much like others did for the Bears.

 

It's very difficult to judge a player without judging his contract too when they underperform, the degrees are different the higher they earn.

 

Like you said, that translates to all sports.

[Guest]

you called him injury prone. meatballs do that when they hate someone because of the look on their face.

[jersey cubs fan]

I was for the contract, I was wrong and should've looked at it more carefully but I thought at the time it was a good deal.

 

He's here and if play doesn't improve from him, he'll be an anchor for two more years (Hell, Smith and Cutler were similar as far as production last year)

 

I just find it funny when someone says Cutler had a bad year that it's some kind of stereotype that exists because the avg. Bears fan always wants the backup QB.

 

You aren't wrong for saying he had a bad year, many Cutler supporters have made that very same point. You are wrong by characterizing him as an anchor. It's dumb.

[Guest]

Okay UK with the benefit of hindsight tell us how you handle Cutlers contract situation.

[UK1679666180]

Before this year, he was on IR in '11 for 6 games, missed 2 games with the concussion against the Giants in 12', and last year missed several games with groin/ankle injuries.

.

 

great googily moogily.

 

Yes, if you miss a quarter of your games heading into a large contract, your injury rate factors. I'm not looking for Favre but in negotiations that should factor.

[Guest]

i've said several times that Cutler was disappointing this year. But there's disappointing and maddening and then there's freezing in your castle the same as the smallfolk in their huts and white walkers roaming the woods.

[jersey cubs fan]

Before this year, he was on IR in '11 for 6 games, missed 2 games with the concussion against the Giants in 12', and last year missed several games with groin/ankle injuries.

.

 

great googily moogily.

 

Yes, if you miss a quarter of your games heading into a large contract, your injury rate factors. I'm not looking for Favre but in negotiations that should factor.

 

Okay, go be a GM and try negotiating a lower contract for your QB because your shitty team got him concussed and beat up a lot.

[Guest]

most of the time players who are labeled injury prone are just the victims of happenstance

 

main exception is pitchers. ALL of them are injury prone.

[Banedon]

I was for the contract, I was wrong and should've looked at it more carefully but I thought at the time it was a good deal.

 

He's here and if play doesn't improve from him, he'll be an anchor for two more years (Hell, Smith and Cutler were similar as far as production last year)

 

I just find it funny when someone says Cutler had a bad year that it's some kind of stereotype that exists because the avg. Bears fan always wants the backup QB.

 

You aren't wrong for saying he had a bad year, many Cutler supporters have made that very same point. You are wrong by characterizing him as an anchor. It's dumb.

 

And even "looking at it more carefully", without knowledge of how this year was gonna go, it was still the right move. Nobody at all thought the Bears were gonna win only 5 games this year. Nobody thought Cutler would play like he did. Even Cutler haters didn't expect this kind of year out of the Bears offense. This season was an entirely unpredictable scenario, and it's unfair to go back and say "why didn't they account for this?"

 

Emery probably got fired because of the Cutler deal...which isn't really fair, as he was mostly praised for it at the time, but he had plenty of other flaws in addition to it, so I'm not upset about it.

[Guest]

emery was mostly praised for the cutler deal at the time?

[Banedon]

most of the time players who are labeled injury prone are just the victims of happenstance

 

main exception is pitchers. ALL of them are injury prone.

 

And they get paid the most of all!

[jersey cubs fan]

I was for the contract, I was wrong and should've looked at it more carefully but I thought at the time it was a good deal.

 

He's here and if play doesn't improve from him, he'll be an anchor for two more years (Hell, Smith and Cutler were similar as far as production last year)

 

I just find it funny when someone says Cutler had a bad year that it's some kind of stereotype that exists because the avg. Bears fan always wants the backup QB.

 

You aren't wrong for saying he had a bad year, many Cutler supporters have made that very same point. You are wrong by characterizing him as an anchor. It's dumb.

 

And even "looking at it more carefully", without knowledge of how this year was gonna go, it was still the right move. Nobody at all thought the Bears were gonna win only 5 games this year. Nobody thought Cutler would play like he did. Even Cutler haters didn't expect this kind of year out of the Bears offense. This season was an entirely unpredictable scenario, and it's unfair to go back and say "why didn't they account for this?"

 

Emery probably got fired because of the Cutler deal...which isn't really fair, as he was mostly praised for it at the time, but he had plenty of other flaws in addition to it, so I'm not upset about it.

 

The only issue I have here is the idea that this season was "entirely" unpredictable. There was a reason Vegas had a relatively low win total number on the Bears despite them being the 4th or 5th highest favorite to win the conference. There was a lot of volatility in the Bears prediction model because the potential for implosion under the wackadoodle Trestman was relatively high.

[SouthSideRyan]

He might have had a beer at lunch. I'm going to wait for the toxicology report.

 

Yep, one beer ought to put a professional athlete well over .08.

 

He didn't do a breathalyzer, fwiw.

 

Which probably tells you something.

[Banedon]

The only issue I have here is the idea that this season was "entirely" unpredictable. There was a reason Vegas had a relatively low win total number on the Bears despite them being the 4th or 5th highest favorite to win the conference. There was a lot of volatility in the Bears prediction model because the potential for implosion under the wackadoodle Trestman was relatively high.

 

Ok, but that was mostly a question of "can the offense be good enough to overcome the defense/special teams". I really don't recall anyone thinking that the offense would be worse.

[Guest]

Simplistic reactionary standards. People can look at Brady/Rodgers/Manning and say "man, they are worth every penny".

 

People can look at the bottom of the league QB's and say "man, they don't deserve to get paid any more than the little they're getting paid".

 

But that whole middle tier of QB's are where fans can point and say "OMG why do they get so much?" And it's because NFL teams would rather pay to have an middle tier QB and pray that it's enough, or that they turn into someone special, than not pay and have a bottom of the barrel QB.

 

Who cares about the people arguing about those simplistic reactionary standards though?

 

Whether Cutler is overpaid by actual real standards dictated by the market and his level of play and his value is an entirely separate argument.

[Banedon]

emery was mostly praised for the cutler deal at the time?

 

Ok, yeah...there were Cutler haters that ranted and raved "omg 7 years $126 million!!!1!1!", but yes...there was a lot of praise for the deal by those that have at least a moderate understanding of how the NFL salary cap works.

[jersey cubs fan]

He might have had a beer at lunch. I'm going to wait for the toxicology report.

 

Yep, one beer ought to put a professional athlete well over .08.

 

He didn't do a breathalyzer, fwiw.

 

Which probably tells you something.

 

That he will get off?