Cubs Fire Renteria, Hire Maddon

[Deeg]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 2m2 minutes ago

Cubs' silence on the matter of Maddon is deafening: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/30653895-419/cubs-tone-down-joe-maddon-talk-fearful-of-upstaging-world-series.html#.VEzd1UvgXwI … Other teams are reaffirming status of their managers; not CHC.

[Tyrant]

If the hitting coaches say it, then they know better than me, but it seems weird to me that you could just have a whole second swing for two-strike situations. It seems like it would mess up your timing something fierce and make you less likely to make contact at all.

 

Have you ever played or watched golf? There's a minimum of a half dozen swings used in any one round of golf, and I imagine that, much like a varied golf swing, when you practice that alternate swing enough, it becomes a muscle memory thing and not a big deal to pull off.

 

Can we all just finally agree that Kyle doesn't actually understand baseball?

[Guest]

If the hitting coaches say it, then they know better than me, but it seems weird to me that you could just have a whole second swing for two-strike situations. It seems like it would mess up your timing something fierce and make you less likely to make contact at all.

 

Have you ever played or watched golf? There's a minimum of a half dozen swings used in any one round of golf, and I imagine that, much like a varied golf swing, when you practice that alternate swing enough, it becomes a muscle memory thing and not a big deal to pull off.

 

Can we all just finally agree that Kyle doesn't actually understand baseball?

 

Definitely in this case.

[Four and Twenty]

I don't think managers make all that much of a difference unless you let them do damage, and it's impossible to tell how much credit a guy like Maddon should really get, but I'll take him if he wants us that badly.

 

I see this notion all over the place and it always fails to recognize the role of manager beyond game time decision making. If horrible managers can find themselves in the postseason, why bother trying to quantify the credit a manager deserves? Perhaps the only way to truly discern the good from the bad is recognizing their ability to manage people off the field.

 

Think of a baseball team as any other work environment. While a manager isn't going to write a report for an employee, they will have an affect on the quality of their work. Employees respond to the atmosphere of the work environment their manager provides. The healthier and more positive the environment, the better the work produced. Conversely, the more dysfunctional and negative the environment, the poorer the work.

 

Baseball is no different. By all accounts, this is an area Maddon excels in and what separates him from the rest of the pack.

[UK1679666180]

Call me giddy.The young arms will thank Maddon. He's going to frustrate at times, He's more of a gut manager like Zimmer than most expect but the way he manages a staff is the best in baseball.

 

If this happens, I'd be curious about Bosio.

[Guest]

From PSD

 

Buster Olney was just on ESPN radio, Ian O'Connell(sp), and was asked the following question....

What will Joe Maddon be doing next year:

A) managing the Cubs

B) managing another team

C) color commentary on TV

D) sitting at home

 

I'm not exactly going verbatim here, but his reply was something like "I'll take A, you can have B, C,& D and I'll beat you everytime."

 

He seems EXCEPTIONALLY confident that it's going to get done, he then went on to cite the deafening silence from our front office and our great young talent as reasons why it appears to be a lock.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think managers make all that much of a difference unless you let them do damage, and it's impossible to tell how much credit a guy like Maddon should really get, but I'll take him if he wants us that badly.

 

I see this notion all over the place and it always fails to recognize the role of manager beyond game time decision making. If horrible managers can find themselves in the postseason, why bother trying to quantify the credit a manager deserves? Perhaps the only way to truly discern the good from the bad is recognizing their ability to manage people off the field.

 

Think of a baseball team as any other work environment. While a manager isn't going to write a report for an employee, they will have an affect on the quality of their work. Employees respond to the atmosphere of the work environment their manager provides. The healthier and more positive the environment, the better the work produced. Conversely, the more dysfunctional and negative the environment, the poorer the work.

 

Baseball is no different. By all accounts, this is an area Maddon excels in and what separates him from the rest of the pack.

Baseball is very very very very different from a [expletive] office. Just start with the fact that several players make much more than than and have much greater power over their future.

 

 

It is not at all like any other work environment.

[bukie]

Baseball is very very very very different from a [expletive] office. Just start with the fact that several players make much more than than and have much greater power over their future.

 

 

It is not at all like any other work environment.

 

If anything, the value of the front office and management in baseball is the most vastly undervalued commodity in the sport right now. It's really Moneyball in action.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't think managers make all that much of a difference unless you let them do damage, and it's impossible to tell how much credit a guy like Maddon should really get, but I'll take him if he wants us that badly.

 

I see this notion all over the place and it always fails to recognize the role of manager beyond game time decision making. If horrible managers can find themselves in the postseason, why bother trying to quantify the credit a manager deserves? Perhaps the only way to truly discern the good from the bad is recognizing their ability to manage people off the field.

 

Think of a baseball team as any other work environment. While a manager isn't going to write a report for an employee, they will have an affect on the quality of their work. Employees respond to the atmosphere of the work environment their manager provides. The healthier and more positive the environment, the better the work produced. Conversely, the more dysfunctional and negative the environment, the poorer the work.

 

Baseball is no different. By all accounts, this is an area Maddon excels in and what separates him from the rest of the pack.

 

I'm not sure how much I believe any of that. The people who say "happier employees mean better work" are usually employees wanting their bosses to do things for them. Which doesn't disqualify it from being true, but makes me wonder.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If the hitting coaches say it, then they know better than me, but it seems weird to me that you could just have a whole second swing for two-strike situations. It seems like it would mess up your timing something fierce and make you less likely to make contact at all.

 

Have you ever played or watched golf? There's a minimum of a half dozen swings used in any one round of golf, and I imagine that, much like a varied golf swing, when you practice that alternate swing enough, it becomes a muscle memory thing and not a big deal to pull off.

 

Can we all just finally agree that Kyle doesn't actually understand baseball?

 

I understand that it isn't golf.

[Tyrant]

If the hitting coaches say it, then they know better than me, but it seems weird to me that you could just have a whole second swing for two-strike situations. It seems like it would mess up your timing something fierce and make you less likely to make contact at all.

 

Have you ever played or watched golf? There's a minimum of a half dozen swings used in any one round of golf, and I imagine that, much like a varied golf swing, when you practice that alternate swing enough, it becomes a muscle memory thing and not a big deal to pull off.

 

Can we all just finally agree that Kyle doesn't actually understand baseball?

 

I understand that it isn't golf.

 

But you clearly haven't ever tried to hit a baseball in real life.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Not for a very long time. Which is why I clearly qualified my statement that obviously the hitting coaches know more than I do.

 

At first glance, it strikes me as the same kind of false dichotomy that leads people to think that walks and strikeouts are the opposite. But what do I know?

[TruffleShuffle]

But you clearly haven't ever tried to hit a baseball in real life.

 

well, he has probably tried.

[Four and Twenty]

Baseball is very very very very different from a [expletive] office. Just start with the fact that several players make much more than than and have much greater power over their future.

 

 

It is not at all like any other work environment.

 

You basically just agreed with me while trying to disagree. Which is understandable, because you missed the point entirely by reading what was theoretical in absolute terms. People within an office also make different wages and some have more control over their futures than others. You can provide as many differences as you'd like. None of them change the fact that both are a collection of human beings with a designated leader working together toward a common goal.

 

However, that wasn't the point. I wasn't claiming that baseball is like any other workplace. Rather, the role of the manager is the same regardless of the business. Managers of any profession manage people and their work environment with the goal of achieving the best possible results. In baseball, that goes for decisions made on and also off the field.

 

The term for it is "clubhouse culture." Deny it all you want, but there is real value in having someone who can handle the myriad interpersonal dynamics within an organization. This is even more so in baseball for the very reasons you offered, among many others. Fans, especially those who are sabremetrically focused, tend to neglect this value because it cannot be quantified.

 

Theo, someone who is often praised for his prowess in blending old fashioned scouting with modern analytics, understands this and presumably recognizes that value in Maddon.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

and presumably recognizes that value in Maddon.

 

And in an incredibly competitive environment filled with ridiculously educated men working day and night to find every possible edge, Maddon's going to make less than Scott Baker did.

 

As long as he doesn't Dusty any arms or anything, I'm happy.

[rawaction]

This needs to happen because [expletive] the Bears.

[Four and Twenty]

I'm not sure how much I believe any of that. The people who say "happier employees mean better work" are usually employees wanting their bosses to do things for them. Which doesn't disqualify it from being true, but makes me wonder.

 

You're absolutely right. However, that focuses on the tendency for individuals to be chiefly concerned with their own well-being. I'm referring to the concern of the manager for the well-being of the individual.

 

I'm sure you have had both good and bad bosses. Ask yourself, under which did you perform best?

 

The point is Maddon is a guy known being among the best at providing an environment that promotes the well being of the individual. There is real, near tangible value in that. Value that makes a difference. You can't put a number on it, but you can listen to the testimonials of his former players.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I did my best work under bosses I feared. But I wasn't a professional athlete so that is probably irrelevant.

[Deeg]

Having worked as a manager - both directly over hourly employees and as a manager of other managers - I can tell you that my experience is that performance was universally better under managers that created an environment where people felt respected. The personalty of the location manager was the single most important element in determining the success or failure of that location. A bad manager can sour the barrel with remarkable speed, and given a bit of time a good one can achieve seeming miracles in a supposedly terrible environment. And I never once saw a manager whose stock and trade was getting people to work harder because they were terrified of the alternative achieve any lasting success.

 

Is it different with professional athletes, most of whom make more than the "boss" and know they can't be fired and he can? Of course - but maybe not as different as it's generally made out to be. I tend to believe the role of the manager in creating a clubhouse environment is underrated in importance by people who believe stats can explain everything in baseball, and that managers are worth at most 1-2 wins per season.

[Tyrant]

Not for a very long time. Which is why I clearly qualified my statement that obviously the hitting coaches know more than I do.

 

At first glance, it strikes me as the same kind of false dichotomy that leads people to think that walks and strikeouts are the opposite. But what do I know?

 

It's just crazy to think guys have exactly one swing they employ for every pitch or situation they encounter. Do you think hitters put the same swing on a slider low and away that they do on a fastball on the inner half?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Not for a very long time. Which is why I clearly qualified my statement that obviously the hitting coaches know more than I do.

 

At first glance, it strikes me as the same kind of false dichotomy that leads people to think that walks and strikeouts are the opposite. But what do I know?

 

It's just crazy to think guys have exactly one swing they employ for every pitch or situation they encounter. Do you think hitters put the same swing on a slider low and away that they do on a fastball on the inner half?

 

Javy does, and if it's good enough for him...

[LeftCoastCubFan]

What is the MLB policy on interviewing minority candidates? How does it play out when you still have a manager?

[Guest]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 2h2 hours ago

Given that it's a travel day in the World Series, we could learn more today about the direction of Joe Maddon (to the North Side, IMO).

[Banedon]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 2h2 hours ago

Given that it's a travel day in the World Series, we could learn more today about the direction of Joe Maddon (to the North Side, IMO).

 

Oh I doubt this. I don't expect to learn any real info till the WS is over with.

[Guest]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 2h2 hours ago

Given that it's a travel day in the World Series, we could learn more today about the direction of Joe Maddon (to the North Side, IMO).

 

Oh I doubt this. I don't expect to learn any real info till the WS is over with.

 

I think it's possible more information unofficially leaks out, but don't see any real announcement coming yet.