Week 7: Dolphins (2-3) @ Bears (3-3) Noon, CBS/780

[Butterscup1679666578]

i am sad to read the negative things about brandon marshall in this thread.

 

yup.

[Sammy Sofa]

i am sad to read this thread.

[Soul]

i am sad to read the negative things about brandon marshall in this thread.

 

yup.

 

It's just anger at everything that gets focused on a smaller group of guys.

 

Bear fans are pretty good at it.

[gscool89]

i am sad

[gscool89]

Just a reminder, Jared Allen is still winless at Soldier Field in his career.

 

Also related to Allen apparently wasn't in during several stretches of the 2nd half. I guess they asked him about it and he said to ask Tucker.

He probably hurt his arm waving to the crowd to get loud. That's about the only thing he's good at.

[RynoRules]

"Losing the locker room" seems like it could be more of an actual thing in the NFL. These guys have to go out and half-kill people for a living on behalf of a team. That requires motivation. I think that Trestman is smart from a technical perspective (I don't doubt that he can dissect a defense or call plays) and probably a nice guy, but I wonder about whether he has the chops to motivate people and hold them acceptable. He might be too cerebral for that.

 

Then again, I thought a lot of the same things about Lovie.

[WrigleyField 22]

I think losing the locker room is overrated. You have to keep the trust of your best players and leaders and everyone else falls in line as players self-regulate a lot.

 

As far as possible coaching changes it will come down to Emery's trust in Trestman. If he stays you have to assume he maintains autonomy over his coordinators. Firing just Tucker seems scapegoating to me considering the D has basically done what we expected of it (average) while dealing with injuries. If you do fire Tucker I'm not sure how good of a coordinator you can snatch with the prospect of a HC possibly on make or break year. Certainly you're probably limiting yourself to 4-3 guys.

 

There's too much talent on the O that it couldn't click at any second. Maybe the players and coaches Wil get a sense of urgency going into this week and we'll get a lucky win in a shootout @NE and still head into the bye in okay shape. 3-5 and were basically playing for 1 loss football.

 

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

I think losing the locker room is overrated. You have to keep the trust of your best players and leaders and everyone else falls in line as players self-regulate a lot.

 

I don't know what you mean but overrated, maybe that it's not really a concern? But I think it is real in this league and I think the Trestman already lost the defensive side of that room last year, when everything fell apart post-Lovie. He maintained credibility while his offense was improving, and doing things no Bears offense had done in years, if ever. Now that the offense has stalled, and fingers are being pointed by and toward half the team, this is a problem again. Trestman has his work cut out for him this week, getting the teams' collective head on straight and figuring out how to make this offense not suck.

 

 

This team is a bummer.

[WrigleyField 22]

I think losing the locker room is overrated. You have to keep the trust of your best players and leaders and everyone else falls in line as players self-regulate a lot.

 

I don't know what you mean but overrated, maybe that it's not really a concern? But I think it is real in this league and I think the Trestman already lost the defensive side of that room last year, when everything fell apart post-Lovie. He maintained credibility while his offense was improving, and doing things no Bears offense had done in years, if ever. Now that the offense has stalled, and fingers are being pointed by and toward half the team, this is a problem again. Trestman has his work cut out for him this week, getting the teams' collective head on straight and figuring out how to make this offense not suck.

 

 

This team is a bummer.

Overrated meaning it is a concern but its impact is overstated.

 

I still don't even get an impression he's lost the defense. Maybe he's just very distant though. Most of the talk of him losing the D seems to have come from former bears defenders. Maybe they're talking to their old teammates and they are frustrated, but until the actual current players are getting quoted it's probably a non issue on the D side. Honestly over the past two years hasn't it just been a bunch of former LB who rail on Trestman/the team? So perhaps Briggs is bitching to his old friends and talking about the glory days but it seems pretty isolated.

 

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

I still don't even get an impression he's lost the defense. Maybe he's just very distant though. Most of the talk of him losing the D seems to have come from former bears defenders. Maybe they're talking to their old teammates and they are frustrated, but until the actual current players are getting quoted it's probably a non issue on the D side. Honestly over the past two years hasn't it just been a bunch of former LB who rail on Trestman/the team? So perhaps Briggs is bitching to his old friends and talking about the glory days but it seems pretty isolated

 

I am not sure what else you'd need to read about last year's defense to see that he lost them. Briggs was outspoken. They all hated Lovie being booted and scoffed at Trestman's style, and the result was a decent defense becoming horrible in a heartbeat. Briggs is basically just cashing checks at this point. Tillman is a pro and possibly the only vet that didn't go through the motions.

[Banedon]

The offense is still the concerning part though. There was plenty of belief that the defense would still be bad. Nobody can really be surprised about anything on that side of the ball. But Trestman was supposed to be an offensive whiz. But teams have adjusted...seems like they're able to keep the offense in front of them, and make the Bears have to beat them underneath...which for some reason is proving to be more challenging than it ought to be. I realize they've had some WR injuries that have contributed, but the playcalling has been weird too. Forte got only a few carries in the first half of the game, against a team that had been burned by the run last week.

[jersey cubs fan]

The offense is still the concerning part though. There was plenty of belief that the defense would still be bad. Nobody can really be surprised about anything on that side of the ball. But Trestman was supposed to be an offensive whiz.

 

Yep, as long as the offense was good you could ignore his other faults. But when his area of expertise is what's leading to the losses, it is a problem.

[WrigleyField 22]

I still don't even get an impression he's lost the defense. Maybe he's just very distant though. Most of the talk of him losing the D seems to have come from former bears defenders. Maybe they're talking to their old teammates and they are frustrated, but until the actual current players are getting quoted it's probably a non issue on the D side. Honestly over the past two years hasn't it just been a bunch of former LB who rail on Trestman/the team? So perhaps Briggs is bitching to his old friends and talking about the glory days but it seems pretty isolated

 

I am not sure what else you'd need to read about last year's defense to see that he lost them. Briggs was outspoken. They all hated Lovie being booted and scoffed at Trestman's style, and the result was a decent defense becoming horrible in a heartbeat. Briggs is basically just cashing checks at this point. Tillman is a pro and possibly the only vet that didn't go through the motions.

I really only remember Briggs sulking and then a bunch of basically PS players who sucked at football. Then Urlacher and maybe one other former player coming out and claiming Trestman lost the D rather than the D just having a bunch of bad players.

 

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

To be clear, I still think losing guys is detrimental, but to blame Trestman for "losing the D" last year implies it was something other than the fact it was an old injured d with bad replacement players that caused that collapse. The current O situation is much more concerning especially with one of the undisputed leaders of the O speaking out.

 

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

To be clear, I still think losing guys is detrimental, but to blame Trestman for "losing the D" last year implies it was something other than the fact it was an old injured d with bad replacement players that caused that collapse. The current O situation is much more concerning especially with one of the undisputed leaders of the O speaking out.

 

To be clear, I am not just implying it was something other than the fact it was an old injured d. I am saying that it was more than just old and injured. I think the coaching situation played a very clear role in the decline of the d.

[rawaction]

The offense is still the concerning part though. There was plenty of belief that the defense would still be bad. Nobody can really be surprised about anything on that side of the ball. But Trestman was supposed to be an offensive whiz.

 

Yep, as long as the offense was good you could ignore his other faults. But when his area of expertise is what's leading to the losses, it is a problem.

 

Yep, that's what I've been saying for a few weeks. If this team isn't scoring 28 ppg like it was last year, what's Trestman's value to this team? He's not a motivator like Rex Ryan. He's not a disciplinarian like Coughlin or someone. He's not a player's coach like Lovie was. He's not strong in-game or as a leader like a Belichick. His value is in getting this offense to score points and win games. They averaged 7 points per quarter last year, they've been held to 7 or fewer points in a half in 5 of the 7 games this year.

 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens if this year continues like this. I've been thinking about it since yesterday, and you kinda have to fire Trestman don't you? The offense is all under contract for next year. You can't blame it on Cutler and toss him aside (which is why I would have just franchised him). You aren't going to be able to trade Marshall, who looks like he might be a problem if this team doesn't do anything significant on the field. All you can do is blame Tucker and retool the defense again. And if they keep playing average-ish, I don't think there's enough you can possibly do on that side of the ball to combat the fact that the offense isn't as advertised.

[WrigleyField 22]

To be clear, I still think losing guys is detrimental, but to blame Trestman for "losing the D" last year implies it was something other than the fact it was an old injured d with bad replacement players that caused that collapse. The current O situation is much more concerning especially with one of the undisputed leaders of the O speaking out.

 

To be clear, I am not just implying it was something other than the fact it was an old injured d. I am saying that it was more than just old and injured. I think the coaching situation played a very clear role in the decline of the d.

I think the D declined because it had bad players and then Briggs continued to sulk cuz he missed his buddy Lach and Lovie. Peppers was his normal rather disinterested self and Tillman was a pro as you say, and I think kept his influence over the DBs. Anyone else basically didn't matter enough due to their overriding bad at football issue.

 

The D got some new good players, is average, and doesn't seem to be a big locker room issue now. Briggs is still kind of sulking, but he's at least a little ore interested than last year. Winning/performance helps beget a much more harmonious locker room.

 

There is the scheme/technique related coaching issues but that's mostly separate from leadership traits of anyone.

 

 

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[apete6]

i am sad to read the negative things about brandon marshall in this thread.

 

yup.

 

So you're OK with him being a cancer in the clubhouse and personifying the diva receiver? That [expletive] is fine when you're dominating and going 6/150/2TD every week. When you're on pace for 800 yards receiving, you're the last person that should be stirring the pot. Also, the last offensive play of the game was a catchable ball that bounced off his hands.

 

That being said, I like Marshall and a lot of it is on Cutler, but any sign of anything going wrong and he starts to revert back to his old self. Maybe doing that show in New York isn't a big deal, but if you miss 1 route, it's always going to be "maybe he doesn't have his focus" fairly or unfairly.

[Banedon]

This is obviously complete speculation on my part...but I get the feeling that Cutler/the offense REALLY liked throwing the ball a lot in the 2nd half against the Falcons, and told Trestman/Kromer "hey, lets open this thing up and throw more. We're an offense that can move downfield!" So they gameplanned that...and the first half, it's all passing, little running...and the Dolphins play much better coverage than the Falcons did, and take away what the Bears were trying to do.

[Banedon]

i am sad to read the negative things about brandon marshall in this thread.

 

yup.

 

So you're OK with him being a cancer in the clubhouse and personifying the diva receiver? That [expletive] is fine when you're dominating and going 6/150/2TD every week. When you're on pace for 800 yards receiving, you're the last person that should be stirring the pot. Also, the last offensive play of the game was a catchable ball that bounced off his hands.

 

That being said, I like Marshall and a lot of it is on Cutler, but any sign of anything going wrong and he starts to revert back to his old self. Maybe doing that show in New York isn't a big deal, but if you miss 1 route, it's always going to be "maybe he doesn't have his focus" fairly or unfairly.

 

Breaking news: Player unhappy about losing.

 

Most players are a lot less likeable when losing. Marshall is a loud, passionate, outspoken person that's fun when he's winning, and not so much when he's losing.

[jersey cubs fan]

The offense is still the concerning part though. There was plenty of belief that the defense would still be bad. Nobody can really be surprised about anything on that side of the ball. But Trestman was supposed to be an offensive whiz.

 

Yep, as long as the offense was good you could ignore his other faults. But when his area of expertise is what's leading to the losses, it is a problem.

 

Yep, that's what I've been saying for a few weeks. If this team isn't scoring 28 ppg like it was last year, what's Trestman's value to this team? He's not a motivator like Rex Ryan. He's not a disciplinarian like Coughlin or someone. He's not a player's coach like Lovie was. He's not strong in-game or as a leader like a Belichick. His value is in getting this offense to score points and win games. They averaged 7 points per quarter last year, they've been held to 7 or fewer points in a half in 5 of the 7 games this year.

 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens if this year continues like this. I've been thinking about it since yesterday, and you kinda have to fire Trestman don't you? The offense is all under contract for next year. You can't blame it on Cutler and toss him aside (which is why I would have just franchised him). You aren't going to be able to trade Marshall, who looks like he might be a problem if this team doesn't do anything significant on the field. All you can do is blame Tucker and retool the defense again. And if they keep playing average-ish, I don't think there's enough you can possibly do on that side of the ball to combat the fact that the offense isn't as advertised.

 

I think the bold move would be to clean house and hire a new GM/football ops guy who can go hire his own head coach in year 1 and stop messing around with all the "work with the previous guy to see if they can make the best of it" theory. If Emery's job is secure, it would be pretty ballsy of him to move on already from Trestman. I wouldn't complain. That would cement Cutler's status as a coach killer.

 

At this point though, I am guessing they let Cutler/Trestman play out their contracts, or at least the majority of them and Emery probably gets an opportunity to hire another coach starting in 2016 who can go after his own QB after a presumably disastrous 2015.

[Chocolate Milk]

Yep, as long as the offense was good you could ignore his other faults. But when his area of expertise is what's leading to the losses, it is a problem.

I agree 100%. I think Trestman may be in over his head. After last year, I kind of had him pegged as an offensive (no pun intended) version of Lovie. Now, he seems like a B- version of Lovie - at least Lovie's defenses were elite. We're consistently seeing a team that doesn't appear to be prepared on a week to week basis. Honestly, at times it doesn't look like they are playing hard. They didn't pick up the fumble in the Packers game last year or against the Panthers this year, and the tackling attempts after Jay's interception yesterday were pitiful. It doesn't seem like they have a culture of accountability on the team. Speaking of which, why is Shea McClellin getting his starting job back after an injury? How exactly has he earned that? He looked like he was drunk out there. Just awful.

 

On offense, the Bears don't really seem to spread the ball around that much. Sure, the box score might show it, but it seems like they go through long stretches of the game where they totally focus on one outlet. I think that makes them easier to defend because Jay will just stare down one guy for long stretches. I don't have any stats to back this up, just an observation from watching the games. I could be wrong.

 

On the defense, they have these games where there are just gaping holes in the middle of the field. Here is a pic Adam Hoge just posted on Twitter:

 

 

What exactly is going on there? You could draw a 12 yard circle around that dude. How exactly do you leave the middle of the field open like that? If they roll like that against Tom Brady next week, they are going to get eviscerated. If they don't turn it around soon, I hope this was just a 2 year experiment with the Trestman era.

[WrigleyField 22]

The offense is still the concerning part though. There was plenty of belief that the defense would still be bad. Nobody can really be surprised about anything on that side of the ball. But Trestman was supposed to be an offensive whiz.

 

Yep, as long as the offense was good you could ignore his other faults. But when his area of expertise is what's leading to the losses, it is a problem.

 

Yep, that's what I've been saying for a few weeks. If this team isn't scoring 28 ppg like it was last year, what's Trestman's value to this team? He's not a motivator like Rex Ryan. He's not a disciplinarian like Coughlin or someone. He's not a player's coach like Lovie was. He's not strong in-game or as a leader like a Belichick. His value is in getting this offense to score points and win games. They averaged 7 points per quarter last year, they've been held to 7 or fewer points in a half in 5 of the 7 games this year.

 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens if this year continues like this. I've been thinking about it since yesterday, and you kinda have to fire Trestman don't you? The offense is all under contract for next year. You can't blame it on Cutler and toss him aside (which is why I would have just franchised him). You aren't going to be able to trade Marshall, who looks like he might be a problem if this team doesn't do anything significant on the field. All you can do is blame Tucker and retool the defense again. And if they keep playing average-ish, I don't think there's enough you can possibly do on that side of the ball to combat the fact that the offense isn't as advertised.

Honestly I think all those traits of other coaches you listed other than Bellicheck are rather small factors. If Trestman had one of those traits, it'd still be a distant factor to the offense not producing. That's the most important thing. The defense is already improved enough to be acceptable. I have a hard time believing the O is as bad as it has been, but it also can't be just above average either, it's gotta be top 5 type.

 

 

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[Banedon]

Yep, as long as the offense was good you could ignore his other faults. But when his area of expertise is what's leading to the losses, it is a problem.

I agree 100%. I think Trestman may be in over his head. After last year, I kind of had him pegged as an offensive (no pun intended) version of Lovie. Now, he seems like a B- version of Lovie - at least Lovie's defenses were elite. We're consistently seeing a team that doesn't appear to be prepared on a week to week basis. Honestly, at times it doesn't look like they are playing hard. They didn't pick up the fumble in the Packers game last year or against the Panthers this year, and the tackling attempts after Jay's interception yesterday were pitiful. It doesn't seem like they have a culture of accountability on the team. Speaking of which, why is Shea McClellin getting his starting job back after an injury? How exactly has he earned that? He looked like he was drunk out there. Just awful.

 

I'm not gonna rant about the defense, bad as it might be, because I really expected so little. The defensive line has improved from last year...but the secondary is atrocious.

 

But yeah, I agree with you about accountability. Everybody seems to get their starting jobs back whether they deserve it or not, and that's pretty dismaying. It seems like they value "chemistry" too highly. Seems like a very Trestman thing to value.

 

Ultimately, I agree with you about Trestman. I've been a believer/defender until this week. But he's gonna have to win me back, cuz I'm not drinking the kool aid anymore.

[jersey cubs fan]

On the defense, they have these games where there are just gaping holes in the middle of the field. Here is a pic Adam Hoge just posted on Twitter:

 

 

What exactly is going on there? You could draw a 12 yard circle around that dude. How exactly do you leave the middle of the field open like that? If they roll like that against Tom Brady next week, they are going to get eviscerated. If they don't turn it around soon, I hope this was just a 2 year experiment with the Trestman era.

 

That's just Khaseem Greene turning his back despite being in zone. Horrible.