Samardzija trade rumors

[Sammy Sofa]

All I want from Miami is Stanton. Jesus, [expletive], his numbers are sexy as hell this year.

 

rofl if we got stanton and baez gets fixed, eventually we wouldn't even need to bother fielding a pitching staff.

 

I mostly want Baez fixed enough in the hopes he's traded for Stanton because ultimately I don't think he'll ever be the monster we want him to be. Pile on to him to get it done, bring in Stanton and Bryant and then unleash the fury.

[RammyFanny]

All I want from Miami is Stanton. Jesus, [expletive], his numbers are sexy as hell this year.

I love me some Yelich.

[Backtobanks]

All I want from Miami is Stanton. Jesus, [expletive], his numbers are sexy as hell this year.

 

rofl if we got stanton and baez gets fixed, eventually we wouldn't even need to bother fielding a pitching staff.

 

That's good because after trading Samardzija and Hammel at the deadline, we wouldn't have much of a pitching staff to field.

[Guest]

And there is a big arm that could be had for a hefty price.

 

The Marlins have some attractive arms in their system that could be dangled. Save parting with Andrew Heaney, their No. 1 prospect, Miami would be wise to weigh what the Cubs would be asking.

 

I bet they're not asking for your #2 pitching prospect who is striking out 3.8/9 IP

 

it's cute that some miami writer thinks they can get Samardjzia and not give up their top pitching prospect in any deal. maybe they have a 3 way deal in mind. b2b, you're up.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Are you kidding me? Signing players like Aaron Miles and John Grabow are indicative of a huge mess? [expletive], nobody better tell Theo and co. about that.

 

Hendry had a typically mediocre team construction in his final years.

His teams were highly flawed because he had no interest in finding players that could get on base.

 

That seemingly hasn't changed.

 

The one truly good team he built (2008) was built on a bunch of career years. The good teams he built on paper (2004 specifically) were ruined by his hand-picked manager. He wasn't very good (although certainly not the worst, as some made him out to be at the time). Although it seems many on this board are suddenly pining for an 80-win juggernaut with a huge payroll. Hendry was pretty good at those.

 

Yes, that's the point; the teams he put together weren't the financially crippled, catastrophic messes that some need to make them out as to seemingly justify what's been going on under the current regime when it comes to the big league team. It's a tired excuse.

 

But you're the only one using the term "financially crippling." What was crippling was the lack of young talent left behind. 2015 has been the goal all along; and that's to be competitive, and go from there. At this moment in time, does it feel like we're less than a year away from that? Not on the surface. But we do have 1B, SS, C covered. I'm not ready to crown Olt just yet, but as of now, it looks like we may have 3B. The OF is iffy. If nothing else, we have maybe a pair of platoon guys in Lake and Kalish. Bryant is sure looking like he could be in the heart of our lineup by opening day. Soler's possible, but. I wouldn't bet on it. Between Valbuena, Barney and Watkins, we have if not 2B, then a pair of UT.

 

n Wood, Jackson, Hammel, Arrietta, Hendricks, and maybe Wada, we easily have 3 mid-back end options. Extending Shark would give us a front end guy, and I hope we do.

 

Vizcaino, Rondon, Ramirez, Rivero, Wright, Grimm, and Rosscup, I like our pen.

 

So if our opening day roster looked something like:

 

1B Bryant

2B ?, Barney/Watkins, Valbuena

SS Castro, Barney/Watkins

3B Olt, Valbuena

LF Bryant, Lake

CF ?, Lake,

RF Soler/?, Kalish

C Castillo, does it matter?

SP: Shark (if resigned), ??, 3 of Arietta, Wood, Jackson, Hammel, some type of Wada/Feldman/Maholm reclamation-win

BP: Vizcaino (CL,) Rondon, Ramirez, Rosscup,Grimm, Wright.

 

Shark would be very expensive, but IMHO, worth it.

As for filling the holes, for SP, if we want to aim for the stars, there's Lester or Scherzer. Not sure what's beyond that. Even is Ervin Santana continues his dominance, he's a scary investment. Similar could be said for Liriano.

 

Melky Cabrera seems like he could make back a big chunk of the change that he cost himself in 2012, and Colby Rasmus seems to have blossomed into the best we could have hoped for from Brett Jackson before the engine dropped out.

 

So really, Epstein's plan seems to be right on course.

 

Step 1: Clear out the attic: check.

Step 2: rebuild on a foundation of good, young players: check

Step 3: dust off the checkbook, fill the holes.

[jersey cubs fan]

But you're the only one using the term "financially crippling." What was crippling was the lack of young talent left behind.

 

[expletive].

 

Samardzija, Castro, Cashner, Baez, Castillo, Vogelbach and many others who still account for a substantial portion of this supposedly deep farm system were here before. Outside of drafting Bryant, which they needed to tank a season in order to accomplish, and trading Cashner, which they needed the value of Cashner to pull off, they have brought in no young talent that is more impactful than what was already here.

 

 

The pre-Theo "financially crippled and empty system" story is a [expletive] grossly exaggerated myth propagated by the apologists.

[davell]

BA top 10 Theo inherited

 

1 Brett Jackson

2 Javy

3 Matt Szczur

4 Trey McNutt

5 Dillon Maples

6 Welington Castillo

7 Rafael Dolis

8 Junior Lake

9 Josh Vitters

10 Dan Vogelbach

 

Javy, Vogelbach, and Maples had just been drafted. BA was always higher on Szczur than anyone else. McNutt's stock had fallen a bunch. Lake was toolsy as hell, no idea what he'd turn into. Vitters was already well into his descent. Dolis was a reliever. The only legit trade piece was Brett Jackson. And Castillo was considered a backup to Soto, but a necessity to stick, as we had nothing else.

 

So, you're telling me that's the makings of a solid system? There was Brett Jackson and very little else to trade from.

[Guest]

Samardzija, Castro, Cashner, Baez, Castillo, Vogelbach and many others who still account for a substantial portion of this supposedly deep farm system were here before. Outside of drafting Bryant, which they needed to tank a season in order to accomplish, and trading Cashner, which they needed the value of Cashner to pull off, they have brought in no young talent that is more impactful than what was already here.

 

 

The pre-Theo "financially crippled and empty system" story is a [expletive] grossly exaggerated myth propagated by the apologists.

 

Like who? I guess Alcantara and Candelario were technically around, and if you really want to stretch you can add some promising but fungible relievers like Parker and Rosscup, but that's kinda it(EDIT: As much as it pains me to say so, Colvin may warrant a mention here) . The thing about the story about the state of the system is that it's not a theoretical construct, we can see how it's turned out. So far we're on Year 3 and the farm has produced Cashner, Castillo, Lake, and a couple relievers who haven't established themselves yet. That's simply not enough for an inherited ~70-win team that had post-FA players at 5 of 8 lineup spots and 2 of 4 SP slots, AND had 30 million in payroll slashed while still having 15-20% of the remaining payroll invested in an old and non-star OF(even after they've traded him away). They can certainly be criticized for not adding as much talent or young talent as humanly possible(saving your offseason for one guy and whiffing makes that pretty obvious), but the state of the org that was inherited isn't revisionist history. We're seeing the product right now.

[Guest]

Why does Bryant count but not Almora and Soler?

 

Because of their first months of 2014?

[ScrubMD]

I think Bruno will be a better 2B option than Watkins and Barney next year. Unless we're able to find and resuscitate the corpse of Baez, I'd like Bruno and Valbuena to share time at 2B.

 

(this was in response to SCS)

[davell]

Why does Bryant count but not Almora and Soler?

 

Because of their first months of 2014?

 

My guess is Soler was an omission and Almora(6th pick) was "earned" by the previous regime.

[Little Slide Rooter]

But you're the only one using the term "financially crippling." What was crippling was the lack of young talent left behind.

 

[expletive].

 

Samardzija, Castro, Cashner, Baez, Castillo, Vogelbach and many others who still account for a substantial portion of this supposedly deep farm system were here before. Outside of drafting Bryant, which they needed to tank a season in order to accomplish, and trading Cashner, which they needed the value of Cashner to pull off, they have brought in no young talent that is more impactful than what was already here.

 

 

The pre-Theo "financially crippled and empty system" story is a [expletive] grossly exaggerated myth propagated by the apologists.

 

If you want to think only in terms of the amateur draft, then it all remains to be seen. But beyond that, Epstein has brought in not only prospects but young, big league talent via trades and reclamations that Hendry never would have. Wood, Maholm->Vizcaino, Feldman->Arietta, Strop, are some examples that come to mind.

 

He''s done a great job rebuilding with the few blocks he was left with. As of now, we have young, cost effective talent all throughout the system. We have holes, but we have the money to fill them and the minds to do it right. The payroll is $93MM, $14 of which is paid to a guy on the Yankees. Schierholtz and Villanueva account for another $10MM. That alone is $24MM off the books after this year. They should be able to re-up Shark, offer arbitration where it's due, and still have enough to make some impactful, big league additions.

 

If they're still playing the poor little rich team card in the winter, then I'll worry and/or call Shennanigans.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Why does Bryant count but not Almora and Soler?

 

Because of their first months of 2014?

 

My guess is Soler was an omission and Almora(6th pick) was "earned" by the previous regime.

 

Also Almora isn't an impactful talent.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why does Bryant count but not Almora and Soler?

 

Because of their first months of 2014?

 

My guess is Soler was an omission and Almora(6th pick) was "earned" by the previous regime.

 

Also Almora isn't an impactful talent.

 

Soler has like 17 professional at bats in three years. Almora has had a far to Vitters-esque start to his career and there is still questions about how much of an impact he'll ever have.

[Sammy Sofa]

Are you kidding me? Signing players like Aaron Miles and John Grabow are indicative of a huge mess? [expletive], nobody better tell Theo and co. about that.

 

Hendry had a typically mediocre team construction in his final years.

His teams were highly flawed because he had no interest in finding players that could get on base.

 

That seemingly hasn't changed.

 

The one truly good team he built (2008) was built on a bunch of career years. The good teams he built on paper (2004 specifically) were ruined by his hand-picked manager. He wasn't very good (although certainly not the worst, as some made him out to be at the time). Although it seems many on this board are suddenly pining for an 80-win juggernaut with a huge payroll. Hendry was pretty good at those.

 

Yes, that's the point; the teams he put together weren't the financially crippled, catastrophic messes that some need to make them out as to seemingly justify what's been going on under the current regime when it comes to the big league team. It's a tired excuse.

 

But you're the only one using the term "financially crippling." What was crippling was the lack of young talent left behind. 2015 has been the goal all along; and that's to be competitive, and go from there. At this moment in time, does it feel like we're less than a year away from that? Not on the surface. But we do have 1B, SS, C covered. I'm not ready to crown Olt just yet, but as of now, it looks like we may have 3B. The OF is iffy. If nothing else, we have maybe a pair of platoon guys in Lake and Kalish. Bryant is sure looking like he could be in the heart of our lineup by opening day. Soler's possible, but. I wouldn't bet on it. Between Valbuena, Barney and Watkins, we have if not 2B, then a pair of UT.

 

n Wood, Jackson, Hammel, Arrietta, Hendricks, and maybe Wada, we easily have 3 mid-back end options. Extending Shark would give us a front end guy, and I hope we do.

 

Vizcaino, Rondon, Ramirez, Rivero, Wright, Grimm, and Rosscup, I like our pen.

 

So if our opening day roster looked something like:

 

1B Bryant

2B ?, Barney/Watkins, Valbuena

SS Castro, Barney/Watkins

3B Olt, Valbuena

LF Bryant, Lake

CF ?, Lake,

RF Soler/?, Kalish

C Castillo, does it matter?

SP: Shark (if resigned), ??, 3 of Arietta, Wood, Jackson, Hammel, some type of Wada/Feldman/Maholm reclamation-win

BP: Vizcaino (CL,) Rondon, Ramirez, Rosscup,Grimm, Wright.

 

Shark would be very expensive, but IMHO, worth it.

As for filling the holes, for SP, if we want to aim for the stars, there's Lester or Scherzer. Not sure what's beyond that. Even is Ervin Santana continues his dominance, he's a scary investment. Similar could be said for Liriano.

 

Melky Cabrera seems like he could make back a big chunk of the change that he cost himself in 2012, and Colby Rasmus seems to have blossomed into the best we could have hoped for from Brett Jackson before the engine dropped out.

 

So really, Epstein's plan seems to be right on course.

 

Step 1: Clear out the attic: check.

Step 2: rebuild on a foundation of good, young players: check

Step 3: dust off the checkbook, fill the holes.

 

Just more of the same excuse making. The idea that anyone thinks they had to field multiple years of 100-loss or near 100-loss teams to fix things is just tiresome. They're in the position in they're in right now likely because they want to be in it or because they have to be in it, not because of some horriffic mess Hendry left behind, but because of the shitty ownership of the Ricketts.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Sammy Sofa

[jersey cubs fan]

And this was all done with 100% focus on just building the farm system. That is the easy part. The hard part is winning at the major league level.

 

It is beyond pathetic to still be blaming the previous regime for the state of the current team. It's a joke.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

Like who? I guess Alcantara and Candelario were technically around, and if you really want to stretch you can add some promising but fungible relievers like Parker and Rosscup, but that's kinda it(EDIT: As much as it pains me to say so, Colvin may warrant a mention here) . The thing about the story about the state of the system is that it's not a theoretical construct, we can see how it's turned out. So far we're on Year 3 and the farm has produced Cashner, Castillo, Lake, and a couple relievers who haven't established themselves yet. That's simply not enough for an inherited ~70-win team that had post-FA players at 5 of 8 lineup spots and 2 of 4 SP slots, AND had 30 million in payroll slashed while still having 15-20% of the remaining payroll invested in an old and non-star OF(even after they've traded him away). They can certainly be criticized for not adding as much talent or young talent as humanly possible(saving your offseason for one guy and whiffing makes that pretty obvious), but the state of the org that was inherited isn't revisionist history. We're seeing the product right now.

 

It's more than enough when you've also inherited Samardzija, Castro, Marshall, Garza at the MLB level. And probably a few more guys that could still be useful now.

 

This team is bad because Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer have done a miserable job adding good baseball players to the roster, not because of what they inherited or even because of the payroll. *That's* the product we're seeing right now.

[Guest]

If Vitters could play plus defense at a premium position he'd have been a much, much better prospect.

 

Here comes Kyle with his "everyone overrates everybody's minor league defense (except for certain guys)" anecdote

[Guest]

the current regime's plan was to lose a lot of games and gain access to high picks. how many of those high picks they planned on making is yet to be seen.

[jersey cubs fan]

If Vitters could play plus defense at a premium position he'd have been a much, much better prospect.

 

Here comes Kyle with his "everyone overrates everybody's minor league defense (except for certain guys)" anecdote

 

I am generally not somebody who just assumes a prospect will be good until he fails. I like to see a prospect do well before giving him credit for being good. And the Vitters commentary was as much about the inability to stay on the field as it was about being a completely underwhelming bat.

[Guest]

It's more than enough when you've also inherited Samardzija, Castro, Marshall, Garza at the MLB level. And probably a few more guys that could still be useful now.

 

It is not nearly enough.

 

This team is bad because Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer have done a miserable job adding good baseball players to the roster, not because of what they inherited or even because of the payroll. *That's* the product we're seeing right now.

 

They are not as good as they could be because of Theo and Jed. They are as bad as they are because of Theo/Jed and the mess they inherited(with a hat tip to the new CBA too).

[sneakypower]

Hendry really [expletive] sucked

trib was ok toward the end

Theo/Jed kinda suck

#ptr really [expletive] sucks

 

new argument

[ScrubMD]

Aside from 1 month (including the AFL), Almora's bat has been very good.

[Guest]

If Vitters could play plus defense at a premium position he'd have been a much, much better prospect.

 

Here comes Kyle with his "everyone overrates everybody's minor league defense (except for certain guys)" anecdote

 

I am generally not somebody who just assumes a prospect will be good until he fails. I like to see a prospect do well before giving him credit for being good. And the Vitters commentary was as much about the inability to stay on the field as it was about being a completely underwhelming bat.

 

And what Almora had done in the minors until the last few weeks did not qualify as doing well?

[Sammy Sofa]

Hendry really [expletive] sucked

trib was ok toward the end

Theo/Jed kinda suck

#ptr really [expletive] sucks

 

new argument

 

The stupid old arguments keep coming up because we get getting doofs with Stockholm Syndrome.