Rick Renteria Named New Cubs Manager

[Guest]

Tom Ricketts will not rest until he's stripped the payroll to 50M and driven Theo away.

 

#brokeTomRicketts (Because I'll break his neck)

 

 

It's funny because the news makes you think the payroll go way down!

[KingCubsFan]

For a guy who doesn't really care who we get because I don't care much about a manager, I wasn't even paying close attention to this search.

 

But now I have to, because we damn well better not give up a top prospect for a flipping manager unless he's a player-manager.

 

It's not going to happen.

 

That said, Maddon MIGHT be worth giving up something of value for, but definitely not a legitimate prospect.

Well, a GM/President is infinitely more important than a manager, and Theo cost us Chris Carpenter. Which means Joe Maddon is worth Gerardo Concepcion.

[Guest]

I'd give them Alcantara. Otherwise I'd rather have the Dothraki protege.

Hell no.

[abuck1220]

friedman can have four seats to our 2021 home world series games. final offer.

[SouthSideRyan]

Tom Ricketts will not rest until he's stripped the payroll to 50M and driven Theo away.

 

#brokeTomRicketts (Because I'll break his neck)

 

 

It's funny because the news makes you think the payroll go way down!

 

You don't see the connection between ownership pushing for a celebrity manager coinciding with continuing to spend no money on the actual team?

[Guest]

- I don't see any insinuation that ownership is actually doing that, only that Tampa is hoping for something along those lines

- If they did, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to me to campaign for the most expensive manager possible when someone like Maddon isn't going to make fans flock to Wrigley, especially if they were at risk of pissing Theo/Jed off in the process

- Even if they did push for a big managerial hire, it's a non sequitur to think that means the payroll is going to free fall

[SouthSideRyan]

legit top five guy would be required, which if it were to happen you can rest assured the ricketts drove the deal which would open a whole new can of worms in this crazy little drama...

 

And the Girardi rumors were hevily rumored to be at the request of Ricketts looking to make a splash.

 

I don't think it's an outrageous jump considering all the talk about how Ricketts can't lose a dollar at any point combined with the huge loss of revenue last year, that this is his brilliant idea to convince people we're trying while continuing to slash major league payroll

[Guest]

legit top five guy would be required, which if it were to happen you can rest assured the ricketts drove the deal which would open a whole new can of worms in this crazy little drama...

 

And the Girardi rumors were hevily rumored to be at the request of Ricketts looking to make a splash.

 

I don't think it's an outrageous jump considering all the talk about how Ricketts can't lose a dollar at any point combined with the huge loss of revenue last year, that this is his brilliant idea to convince people we're trying while continuing to slash major league payroll

 

It's all a media driven narrative. Just because Ricketts may have favored a certain candidate doesn't mean he was actually pressuring Theo to do something he didn't want to do.

[SouthSideRyan]

legit top five guy would be required, which if it were to happen you can rest assured the ricketts drove the deal which would open a whole new can of worms in this crazy little drama...

 

And the Girardi rumors were hevily rumored to be at the request of Ricketts looking to make a splash.

 

I don't think it's an outrageous jump considering all the talk about how Ricketts can't lose a dollar at any point combined with the huge loss of revenue last year, that this is his brilliant idea to convince people we're trying while continuing to slash major league payroll

 

It's all a media driven narrative. Just because Ricketts may have favored a certain candidate doesn't mean he was actually pressuring Theo to do something he didn't want to do.

 

ABTY is the media?

[Guest]

legit top five guy would be required, which if it were to happen you can rest assured the ricketts drove the deal which would open a whole new can of worms in this crazy little drama...

 

And the Girardi rumors were hevily rumored to be at the request of Ricketts looking to make a splash.

 

I don't think it's an outrageous jump considering all the talk about how Ricketts can't lose a dollar at any point combined with the huge loss of revenue last year, that this is his brilliant idea to convince people we're trying while continuing to slash major league payroll

 

It's all a media driven narrative. Just because Ricketts may have favored a certain candidate doesn't mean he was actually pressuring Theo to do something he didn't want to do.

 

ABTY is the media?

 

i don't see any reason to think ABTY isn't speculating with that comment - basically just like the media has been. "if this happens, you can bet it's because of this" - which is an assumption a lot of people might make if a theo epstein FO gave up something of worth for a manager

 

That is if you even trust his information...which I'm not sure if I do or not...I just think the rumors are fun so I pass them on. When is the last thing any of his info materialized?

[jersey cubs fan]

- I don't see any insinuation that ownership is actually doing that, only that Tampa is hoping for something along those lines

- If they did, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to me to campaign for the most expensive manager possible when someone like Maddon isn't going to make fans flock to Wrigley, especially if they were at risk of pissing Theo/Jed off in the process

- Even if they did push for a big managerial hire, it's a non sequitur to think that means the payroll is going to free fall

 

If ownership/business people are pushing for a name manager to push the brand this winter, and even if it's among the most expensive managers in the game, the actual cost is still much less than a run-of-the-mill player. They could pay somebody $5m to manage and tell the world they are serious about winning, and take it out of the Scott Baker portion of the budget. The public at large and media is going to applaud such a move.

 

What doesn't make sense is Theo trying to trade prospects for a manager.

 

The Cubs have a long history of doing something to drive fan interest prior to the convention and/or the date of February ticket sales. The past two years they have bypassed that process and I would not be surprised at all if the business side was pushing hard for a renewed attempt to gain fan interest over the winter. The easiest way is to sign a big name free agent, but that is expensive. Signing a name manager to a big contract sends a similar message, but at a much less expensive price point.

[Guest]

legit top five guy would be required, which if it were to happen you can rest assured the ricketts drove the deal which would open a whole new can of worms in this crazy little drama...

 

And the Girardi rumors were hevily rumored to be at the request of Ricketts looking to make a splash.

 

I don't think it's an outrageous jump considering all the talk about how Ricketts can't lose a dollar at any point combined with the huge loss of revenue last year, that this is his brilliant idea to convince people we're trying while continuing to slash major league payroll

 

Well yes, if they actually gave up significant assets to acquire Maddon that would be a sign, but rumors about what the price tag would potentially be are far from a cause for lashing out at ownership.

 

Personally, it doesn't add up. Bringing in a successful manager might satiate an insignificant number of Cubs fans, but Maddon has no celebrity to the common fan, and for those who do appreciate him, they'd be just as irritated when they saw the lack of moves made in the offseason.

 

More importantly though, I think it's nonsensical that they'd basically undermine Theo/Jed on so many levels at once for that little benefit. They'd be:

 

- Further limiting their pool of financial resources

- Forcing them to hire a candidate that isn't their favorite

- Forcing them to give up significant player assets to secure that non-preferred candidate

- Forcing them to divert a disproportionate amount of those limited financial resources to that non-preferred candidate

 

Basically, the entire premise forces you into believing that Ricketts is Snidely Whiplash, or that Theo/Jed have become abject morons, or both.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Because no owner in the history of sports has *ever* foolishly thought he could improve on his front office's decisions with just a little input?

[jersey cubs fan]

Basically, the entire premise forces you into believing that Ricketts is Snidely Whiplash, or that Theo/Jed have become abject morons, or both.

 

Yeah, that's not true at all.

[jersey cubs fan]

, but rumors about what the price tag would potentially be are far from a cause for lashing out at ownership.

 

Everything that has happened the past two years is cause for lashing out at ownership.

[Guest]

Because no owner in the history of sports has *ever* foolishly thought he could improve on his front office's decisions with just a little input?

 

There's a chasm between "just a little input" and "forcing your GM to send a top prospect and several million dollars of a slashed payroll to get a specific manager that most of the bleacher crowd doesn't know by name". Even more so when half the reason that GM left his old job was due to similar power struggles getting in the way of his job.

[davell]

The revenue lost this year from attendance almost directly is canceled out by the new MLB money. We'll actually come out a bit less than 4 mill to the positive. After arb raises, I've got us projected at 73 mill. We were at 106 last year. We'll save 2 mill from picking 4th versus 2nd and while we spent 10 mill on IFA this year, it'll be 3.9(or less if we trade it) in 2014. If Ricketts DOES put the money back into baseball ops- we've got anywhere from 43-49 mill to spend. More, depending on if the Arizona complex funding went over 84 million, after which the Cubs would be responsible in full. I keep trying to find ways to scrounge up a Tanaka posting fee.....But can't.

[Guest]

Because no owner in the history of sports has *ever* foolishly thought he could improve on his front office's decisions with just a little input?

 

It seems unlikely Ricketts would try to push his input beyound mere suggestions when that sort of action is a well documented major reason why Epstein left Boston.

 

ETA: What TT said.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The revenue lost this year from attendance almost directly is canceled out by the new MLB money. We'll actually come out a bit less than 4 mill to the positive. After arb raises, I've got us projected at 73 mill. We were at 106 last year. We'll save 2 mill from picking 4th versus 2nd and while we spent 10 mill on IFA this year, it'll be 3.9(or less if we trade it) in 2014. If Ricketts DOES put the money back into baseball ops- we've got anywhere from 43-49 mill to spend. More, depending on if the Arizona complex funding went over 84 million, after which the Cubs would be responsible in full. I keep trying to find ways to scrounge up a Tanaka posting fee.....But can't.

 

Well, to start with, we didn't spend $106m on major league payroll last year.

[davell]

The revenue lost this year from attendance almost directly is canceled out by the new MLB money. We'll actually come out a bit less than 4 mill to the positive. After arb raises, I've got us projected at 73 mill. We were at 106 last year. We'll save 2 mill from picking 4th versus 2nd and while we spent 10 mill on IFA this year, it'll be 3.9(or less if we trade it) in 2014. If Ricketts DOES put the money back into baseball ops- we've got anywhere from 43-49 mill to spend. More, depending on if the Arizona complex funding went over 84 million, after which the Cubs would be responsible in full. I keep trying to find ways to scrounge up a Tanaka posting fee.....But can't.

 

Well, to start with, we didn't spend $106m on major league payroll last year.

If you're going to subtract what we sold off, I'm going to add in signing bonuses that were paid in full and it's going to be extremely close, so that's why I keep it at that figure.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The revenue lost this year from attendance almost directly is canceled out by the new MLB money. We'll actually come out a bit less than 4 mill to the positive. After arb raises, I've got us projected at 73 mill. We were at 106 last year. We'll save 2 mill from picking 4th versus 2nd and while we spent 10 mill on IFA this year, it'll be 3.9(or less if we trade it) in 2014. If Ricketts DOES put the money back into baseball ops- we've got anywhere from 43-49 mill to spend. More, depending on if the Arizona complex funding went over 84 million, after which the Cubs would be responsible in full. I keep trying to find ways to scrounge up a Tanaka posting fee.....But can't.

 

Well, to start with, we didn't spend $106m on major league payroll last year.

If you're going to subtract what we sold off, I'm going to add in signing bonuses that were paid in full and it's going to be extremely close, so that's why I keep it at that figure.

 

OK, then I'm going to throw in the even deeper lost revenue from no-shows that aren't reflected in just the lost ticket sales.

[davell]

The revenue lost this year from attendance almost directly is canceled out by the new MLB money. We'll actually come out a bit less than 4 mill to the positive. After arb raises, I've got us projected at 73 mill. We were at 106 last year. We'll save 2 mill from picking 4th versus 2nd and while we spent 10 mill on IFA this year, it'll be 3.9(or less if we trade it) in 2014. If Ricketts DOES put the money back into baseball ops- we've got anywhere from 43-49 mill to spend. More, depending on if the Arizona complex funding went over 84 million, after which the Cubs would be responsible in full. I keep trying to find ways to scrounge up a Tanaka posting fee.....But can't.

 

Well, to start with, we didn't spend $106m on major league payroll last year.

If you're going to subtract what we sold off, I'm going to add in signing bonuses that were paid in full and it's going to be extremely close, so that's why I keep it at that figure.

 

OK, then I'm going to throw in the even deeper lost revenue from no-shows that aren't reflected in just the lost ticket sales.

OK, then I'm going to say we can each try this and it's futile, because neither of us know how they account for things!(it just doesn't look favorable, is my main point)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Open the darn books, Cubs.

 

Nothing to do but wait and see.

[Illini Iceman]

Because no owner in the history of sports has *ever* foolishly thought he could improve on his front office's decisions with just a little input?

 

There's a chasm between "just a little input" and "forcing your GM to send a top prospect and several million dollars of a slashed payroll to get a specific manager that most of the bleacher crowd doesn't know by name". Even more so when half the reason that GM left his old job was due to similar power struggles getting in the way of his job.

 

Yeah - I would say a great majority of average Cubs fans couldn't even tell you who the Rays manager was and wouldn't be much more impressed by his hire than any from the Acta, Hinch, Renteria grab bag. Girardi was probably the only one they could hire and possibly get a big reaction due to his being a popular former Cubs player and originally being from the area.

 

I haven't looked into the metrics so it might just be a small sample size from the games I have watched but when I take my kid to the games Maddon seems to sacrifice a lot for my liking and doesn't seem to an overly sabermetric guy. He is not "old school" when it comes to player discipline and general attitude but does not strike me as overly progressive regarding strategy. He did spend a lot of years with Scioscia so maybe he has a hard time letting go of some of those philosophies.

 

I get the feeling he really doesn't want to leave Tampa. I think his laid back attitude fits well in a low pressure market like Tampa and he wouldn't really like going to New York, Chicago, etc where he is under more pressure. Also, the Rays management pretty much gives him freedom to do whatever he wants and I think he likes the arrangement quite a bit.

[Brian]

Trey McNutt for Maddon