Random Cubs Musings

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Hill was still thought of as a future leadoff guy. I don't think he'd lost much luster.

At one point, but at the time of the trade he was one of the guys the Pirates could choose from and they settled on him. I am pretty sure he was kind of Brett Jacksoned by that point.

 

He wasn't anywhere near that bad. I remember a lot of acrimony and arguing with Pirates fans over whether they could get Hill back in the deal.

[neely crenshaw]

Ok, if we I give you Hill- Aramis as the greatest trade and say that money had nothing to do with it, and Hill was just as valuable as Aramis, will you at least tell me who we got for Rich Hill, Patterson, Guzman, Brownlee, Christensen, Epatterson, Pie, Kelton, Dopriake, Montanez, Greenberg, Murton? you can even include Marshall as a one time top of the rotation starter that did get value as a lefty set-up guy(which certainly wasn't what anyone planned on)

[neely crenshaw]

for the record he went from 500,000 to 3 mil his last year with the pirates, and that jumped to 6 mil the next, which pittsburgh certainly wasn't going to pay. Also Kenny Lofton was part of the deal, with a minor leaguer and jose hernandez also from the cubs.

[illiniguy]

Ok, if we I give you Hill- Aramis as the greatest trade and say that money had nothing to do with it, and Hill was just as valuable as Aramis, will you at least tell me who we got for Rich Hill, Patterson, Guzman, Brownlee, Christensen, Epatterson, Pie, Kelton, Dopriake, Montanez, Greenberg, Murton? you can even include Marshall as a one time top of the rotation starter that did get value as a lefty set-up guy(which certainly wasn't what anyone planned on)

I'm not arguing hill was as valuable. Sorry if it came off that way, just meant Hendry cashed that prospect in. Some of those other guys you mentioned wouldn't have netted us much as they weren't very highly regarded. Cpatt and pie should have been dealt sooner, the rest though, I don't think gms were dying to give good parts up for ever.

[SouthSideRyan]

lol, Greenberg

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Ok, if we I give you Hill- Aramis as the greatest trade and say that money had nothing to do with it, and Hill was just as valuable as Aramis, will you at least tell me who we got for Rich Hill, Patterson, Guzman, Brownlee, Christensen, Epatterson, Pie, Kelton, Dopriake, Montanez, Greenberg, Murton? you can even include Marshall as a one time top of the rotation starter that did get value as a lefty set-up guy(which certainly wasn't what anyone planned on)

 

Rich mother [expletive] Harden.

[Guest]

Marshall a top of the rotation starter eh?

[Beer Kaese]

We're going to have wave after wave?? The systems ranked ahead of us must have the greatest farm systems in the history of baseball then.

 

Waive after wavie does not mean star after star. It means that we will no longer be sifting though other peoples trash to field a team. We will have a group of kids getting their first shot at the major league. Think about it, since Kerry Wood how many exciting prospects have we had? Cruz, Prior, Zambrano, Patterson, Hill, Choi, Pie and Castro. Did I miss anyone? That's about one guy every other year. I see it setting up as two or three guys a year for year after year (though not next year).

[Beer Kaese]

nice deals but those were both salary dumps from teams that did not want to pay what the players were going to be worth soon(or already being paid).

In both cases the players(ours) were worth much more a year or two earlier but had proven to be busts. Pittsburgh and Florida were just happy to get something for them. They were great deals for us but don't pretend that Hendry traded them even up for them(talent-wise) because it was all about those teams not paying them. We probably could have sent over 3 fungos and a dozen gameballs for these deal...

 

That's why you run with a low payroll and loaded farm. You can take advantage of the dumps to fill needs. There are always sellers and prospects are cash.

[CubColtPacer]

We're going to have wave after wave?? The systems ranked ahead of us must have the greatest farm systems in the history of baseball then.

 

Waive after wavie does not mean star after star. It means that we will no longer be sifting though other peoples trash to field a team. We will have a group of kids getting their first shot at the major league. Think about it, since Kerry Wood how many exciting prospects have we had? Cruz, Prior, Zambrano, Patterson, Hill, Choi, Pie and Castro. Did I miss anyone? That's about one guy every other year. I see it setting up as two or three guys a year for year after year (though not next year).

 

If you're not talking about stars, the quartet of Guzman/Hill/Marshall/Marmol all got some buzz. Soto definitely did by the time he came up. Cedeno, Gallagher and Cashner.

[davell]

We're going to have wave after wave?? The systems ranked ahead of us must have the greatest farm systems in the history of baseball then.

 

Waive after wavie does not mean star after star. It means that we will no longer be sifting though other peoples trash to field a team. We will have a group of kids getting their first shot at the major league. Think about it, since Kerry Wood how many exciting prospects have we had? Cruz, Prior, Zambrano, Patterson, Hill, Choi, Pie and Castro. Did I miss anyone? That's about one guy every other year. I see it setting up as two or three guys a year for year after year (though not next year).

 

If you're not talking about stars, the quartet of Guzman/Hill/Marshall/Marmol all got some buzz. Soto definitely did by the time he came up. Cedeno, Gallagher and Cashner.

Out of everyone listed there, Guzman was the only one in the status area as our current big 4. Alcantara and Edwards have more buzz than anyone else on that list as well, although Cashner and Gallagher could be considered in the same general range.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

What is with the cubs and Zubaz? The other day their ground crew was in them and they have a Zubaz day upcoming. They get a deal to promote them or something?

[Careless]

We're going to have wave after wave?? The systems ranked ahead of us must have the greatest farm systems in the history of baseball then.

He wrote "waive after waive" (twice now)

 

Lots of Brett Jacksons, I suppose.

[Tyrant]

We're going to have wave after wave?? The systems ranked ahead of us must have the greatest farm systems in the history of baseball then.

He wrote "waive after waive" (twice now)

 

Lots of Brett Jacksons, I suppose.

 

Funny how that misspelling gives almost antithetical meaning to his sentence.

[Beer Kaese]

We're going to have wave after wave?? The systems ranked ahead of us must have the greatest farm systems in the history of baseball then.

 

Waive after wavie does not mean star after star. It means that we will no longer be sifting though other peoples trash to field a team. We will have a group of kids getting their first shot at the major league. Think about it, since Kerry Wood how many exciting prospects have we had? Cruz, Prior, Zambrano, Patterson, Hill, Choi, Pie and Castro. Did I miss anyone? That's about one guy every other year. I see it setting up as two or three guys a year for year after year (though not next year).

 

If you're not talking about stars, the quartet of Guzman/Hill/Marshall/Marmol all got some buzz. Soto definitely did by the time he came up. Cedeno, Gallagher and Cashner.

 

I can give you Guzman and Hill but I take back Zambrano. With the hype on Cruz, Z was an after thought.

 

I not talking fan hype. BA had three prospects in the top 20 at mid season. I've never seen that. Reading between the lines, Kris Bryant is our #1 prospect. I've never seen the two combined.

 

Guys like Z, Cedeno and Cashner belong in the Lake, Rusin and Alcatara file.

[Beer Kaese]

We're going to have wave after wave?? The systems ranked ahead of us must have the greatest farm systems in the history of baseball then.

He wrote "waive after waive" (twice now)

 

Lots of Brett Jacksons, I suppose.

 

padding your post total while offing nothing . . . priceless

 

Feel free to use that as your signiture.

[neely crenshaw]

Marshall a top of the rotation starter eh?

 

No, that's what he and Hill projected out be as prospects before showing they were not capable of that.

[neely crenshaw]

nice deals but those were both salary dumps from teams that did not want to pay what the players were going to be worth soon(or already being paid).

In both cases the players(ours) were worth much more a year or two earlier but had proven to be busts. Pittsburgh and Florida were just happy to get something for them. They were great deals for us but don't pretend that Hendry traded them even up for them(talent-wise) because it was all about those teams not paying them. We probably could have sent over 3 fungos and a dozen gameballs for these deal...

 

That's why you run with a low payroll and loaded farm. You can take advantage of the dumps to fill needs. There are always sellers and prospects are cash.

 

Of course but with these deals talent had little to do with the deal. I'll admit both deals got good players, but you have to admit that Hill and Choi by themselves were much more valuable prior to being exposed. I'd guess we could have made both deals with others in place of Hill and Choi, their value was not the make or break on the deal. Hendry made a good deal with what he had at thta point but so many other times he kept his prospects as untouchable instead of getting proven pro talent. it especially hurts when we were very close to winning and a big move could have put us over.

You can also wonder why with so much supposed talent so few were every developed.

[Guest]

Marshall a top of the rotation starter eh?

 

No, that's what he and Hill projected out be as prospects before showing they were not capable of that.

Interesting...I wonder if this serves as proof for the multiverse theory.

[Sammy Sofa]

Come on, you don't remember all of those top prospect lists he was on left and right? Why, he ranks with such illustrious names as Eric Patterson and Adam Greenberg according to neely.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Marshall a top of the rotation starter eh?

 

No, that's what he and Hill projected out be as prospects before showing they were not capable of that.

Hill was a 3 pitch pitcher with an average to below average fastball and a below average change. He was never viewed as a top of the rotation guy as a ceiling, more like 3-4 if everything worked out. Marshall was similar with a slightly better fastball and ceiling.

[neely crenshaw]

Marshall a top of the rotation starter eh?

 

No, that's what he and Hill projected out be as prospects before showing they were not capable of that.

Hill was a 3 pitch pitcher with an average to below average fastball and a below average change. He was never viewed as a top of the rotation guy as a ceiling, more like 3-4 if everything worked out. Marshall was similar with a slightly better fastball and ceiling.

Really, because people(media not fans) were picking him to win the Cy Young his rookie year and having that type of talent.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2007/3/5/11735/47786

 

sounds like a 5 to me....

Edited September 16, 2013 by neely crenshaw

[SouthSideRyan]

Marshall a top of the rotation starter eh?

 

No, that's what he and Hill projected out be as prospects before showing they were not capable of that.

Hill was a 3 pitch pitcher with an average to below average fastball and a below average change. He was never viewed as a top of the rotation guy as a ceiling, more like 3-4 if everything worked out. Marshall was similar with a slightly better fastball and ceiling.

Really, because people(media not fans) were picking him to win the Cy Young his rookie year and having that type of talent.

 

Hahahaha, wtf??

[mul21]

Marshall a top of the rotation starter eh?

 

No, that's what he and Hill projected out be as prospects before showing they were not capable of that.

Hill was a 3 pitch pitcher with an average to below average fastball and a below average change. He was never viewed as a top of the rotation guy as a ceiling, more like 3-4 if everything worked out. Marshall was similar with a slightly better fastball and ceiling.

Really, because people(media not fans) were picking him to win the Cy Young his rookie year and having that type of talent.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2007/3/5/11735/47786

 

sounds like a 5 to me....

 

That guy seems reliable. 4 guys who never did anything significant in the majors and a washed up old guy. Seems like a solid source to me.

[Guest]

Hey, if it's on SBNation it must be true.