Sox shopping Viciedo, De Aza, and Floyd?

[pitchcs]

Oh, and I'm not saying Viciedo would be a 3B. He'd be a corner OF.

[Sammy Sofa]

My Volgelbach love is based mostly out of the idea that he'll ideally be a valuable trade commodity as opposed to actually playing on the Cubs. Unless the NL pulls its head out of its ass and they adopt the DH. Vogelbach also shits all over Viciedo in terms of OPS; Viciedo's numbers are waaaaay too reliant on slugging. Plus: holy [expletive], compare their strikeouts-to-walks ratios. Edited December 7, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[Sammy Sofa]

Oh, and I'm not saying Viciedo would be a 3B. He'd be a corner OF.

 

He'd still be a big fat load out there, too. It's not like they can "coach him up" a la Soriano or something because he has the mobility of a wooly mammoth stuck in a tar pit.

[Guest]

I just think he's going to improve offensively.

 

We all have tons of Vogelbach love, it's not like he's going to be any better in the field. If he hits 40+ HR it's less of a factor, but I think Viciedo will hit 30-35.

 

Vogelbach's value is in the form of his bat, not at all defensively. He will likely contribute to the Cubs via trade unless Rizzo regresses.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just think he's going to improve offensively.

 

We all have tons of Vogelbach love, it's not like he's going to be any better in the field. If he hits 40+ HR it's less of a factor, but I think Viciedo will hit 30-35.

 

Vogelbach's value is in the form of his bat, not at all defensively. He will likely contribute to the Cubs via trade unless Rizzo represses.

 

He is a white man but I wouldn't make such an assumption about Rizzo just yet.

[pitchcs]

I just think he's going to improve offensively.

 

We all have tons of Vogelbach love, it's not like he's going to be any better in the field. If he hits 40+ HR it's less of a factor, but I think Viciedo will hit 30-35.

 

Vogelbach's value is in the form of his bat, not at all defensively. He will likely contribute to the Cubs via trade unless Rizzo regresses.

 

 

I realize this -- same with Viciedo.

[Sammy Sofa]

I just think he's going to improve offensively.

 

We all have tons of Vogelbach love, it's not like he's going to be any better in the field. If he hits 40+ HR it's less of a factor, but I think Viciedo will hit 30-35.

 

Vogelbach's value is in the form of his bat, not at all defensively. He will likely contribute to the Cubs via trade unless Rizzo regresses.

 

 

I realize this -- same with Viciedo.

 

Except....it's not the same. They're very different hitters. And as we've said, Vogelbach's main value to the Cubs right now is his trade potential.

[Guest]

I just think he's going to improve offensively.

 

We all have tons of Vogelbach love, it's not like he's going to be any better in the field. If he hits 40+ HR it's less of a factor, but I think Viciedo will hit 30-35.

 

 

Vogelbach love isn't based solely on his power. He's a very good hitter all around.

[Guest]

I just think he's going to improve offensively.

 

We all have tons of Vogelbach love, it's not like he's going to be any better in the field. If he hits 40+ HR it's less of a factor, but I think Viciedo will hit 30-35.

 

 

Vogelbach love isn't based solely on his power. He's a very good hitter all around.

And projects to have more power than Viciedo.

[pitchcs]

You're all saying things I already know. The point is neither one is a good fielder.

 

Viciedo has the potential to bring value to this team, that's all I'm saying.

[XZero771679666304]

Viciedo has the potential to bring value to this team, that's all I'm saying.

 

That's debatable.

 

He doesn't hit for average, he doesn't take many walks, he's a butcher in the field (and we wouldn't be able to hide his mobility issues at 1B) and while he hits for some power, he doesn't hit for a ton of it.

 

Vogelbach has the same body issues, but no one is going to put him in the OF, he hits for average and commands the zone and will likely provide his value to the team via trade.

[Sammy Sofa]

You're all saying things I already know. The point is neither one is a good fielder.

 

Viciedo has the potential to bring value to this team, that's all I'm saying.

 

Well, yeah, when you oversimplify things like that it makes him sound much better than he actually is. Vogelbach ideally projects to have significant value because he appears to be a much better hitter than Viciedo's flawed, one-dimensional output. Breaking it down to only saying "neither one is a good fielder" is effectively ignoring the really obvious differences in their offensive approach and makes it sound like they're similar players. They're not.

 

Viciedo's value is basically only in his home runs. He effectively negates that value with how bad he is at basically everything else (both offensive and defensive). It's questionable whether or not he'd even be able to hack it as a DH, much less on a team where he'd actually have to play the field.

[jersey cubs fan]

I feel like the obvious needs to be pointed out. Vogelbach has more value as an asset because he is an asset they already control and pay next to nothing for. Viciedo would require the team to spend to acquire him, not to mention pay more. Their theoretically similar value as players is somewhat besides the point.

 

Vogelbach's value to the organization is going to most likely peak right around the time he hits a mid-level minor league and dominates, maybe FSL. Trading him then may be the best thing they ever do. Acquiring the other guy and then trying to squeeze value out of him on the field isn't going to be as fruitful.

[KingCubsFan]

I feel like the obvious needs to be pointed out. Vogelbach has more value as an asset because he is an asset they already control and pay next to nothing for. Viciedo would require the team to spend to acquire him, not to mention pay more. Their theoretically similar value as players is somewhat besides the point.

 

Vogelbach's value to the organization is going to most likely peak right around the time he hits a mid-level minor league and dominates, maybe FSL. Trading him then may be the best thing they ever do. Acquiring the other guy and then trying to squeeze value out of him on the field isn't going to be as fruitful.

Because Vogelbach will only survive with his bat, I think his value will increase as he gets closer to the majors and has success. Ideally, he's successful throughout the minors (including AAA) and then you trade him for something valuable. Or if they're really confident in him, trade Rizzo for something even better.

[Backtobanks]

My original post was to acquire Viciedo as a LF, thinking that sometime soon we can unload Soriano. I'm aware of the fact that he's a defensive liability, but so was Soriano up until this year. As for the Vogelbach/Viciedo discussion - one point that wasn't brought up is the fact that Viciedo is doing it at the ML level while we're hoping Vogelbach can hit at the ML level.

[Sammy Sofa]

My original post was to acquire Viciedo as a LF, thinking that sometime soon we can unload Soriano. I'm aware of the fact that he's a defensive liability, but so was Soriano up until this year. As for the Vogelbach/Viciedo discussion - one point that wasn't brought up is the fact that Viciedo is doing it at the ML level while we're hoping Vogelbach can hit at the ML level.

 

"Doing it?" He's not doing much of anything besides hitting home runs.

 

And how the hell can you even compare Viciedo and Soriano as defenders? Soriano you can work with because of his arm and because he still has some speed. Viciedo is essentially useless as a defender, plus you're buying fully into the "Soriano has been a disaster in LF until 2012" myth.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[Sammy Sofa]

I feel like the obvious needs to be pointed out.

 

Which was why some of us already pointed out his value as a trade asset.

[jersey cubs fan]

My original post was to acquire Viciedo as a LF, thinking that sometime soon we can unload Soriano. I'm aware of the fact that he's a defensive liability, but so was Soriano up until this year.

 

The liability issue with Soriano was mostly overstated by Brenly and people who buy into what Brenly said.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

My original post was to acquire Viciedo as a LF, thinking that sometime soon we can unload Soriano. I'm aware of the fact that he's a defensive liability, but so was Soriano up until this year. As for the Vogelbach/Viciedo discussion - one point that wasn't brought up is the fact that Viciedo is doing it at the ML level while we're hoping Vogelbach can hit at the ML level.

 

There's no comparison between Soriano's defense and Viciedo's, regardless of season. Soriano is worlds better.

[jersey cubs fan]

I feel like the obvious needs to be pointed out.

 

Which was why some of us already pointed out his value as a trade asset.

 

A trade asset they already control. The guy kept saying stuff like "you aren't telling me what I don't already know" but then discussing the top in a manner that suggested he really didn't understand that point.

 

If I own a taco and you own a burrito the relative value of those two products doesn't really matter in the question of whether or not I should try and buy your burrito. Telling me that the fact that I really like that taco means I should want to acquire your burrito is pointless.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yes, I understand with or without your ethnic food metaphors, but thank you.

[SouthSideRyan]

I like chimichangas personally

[Clem Fandango]

Hawk Harrelson once proclaimed with fervent certainty on a broadcast that "NOBODY IS STRONGER THAN TANK!" while he was hitting around a resurgent Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko.

 

And that was enough to make me hate Dayan Viciedo. Got to see Viciedo play in the minors. He got plunked right in the chest because a ball was headed right for him and he apparently thought "Nah, I can hit this" so he turned as if he was gonna try and swing until he realized he was an idiot and held up and ended up getting plunked square in the chest. I could hear the hit all the way from center field. He was so fat at the time it sounded like Rocky punching the meat.

 

I said all that to say this: Dayan Viciedo kinda sucks

[Sammy Sofa]

Hawk Harrelson once proclaimed with fervent certainty on a broadcast that "NOBODY IS STRONGER THAN TANK!" while he was hitting around a resurgent Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko.

 

And that was enough to make me hate Dayan Viciedo. Got to see Viciedo play in the minors. He got plunked right in the chest because a ball was headed right for him and he apparently thought "Nah, I can hit this" so he turned as if he was gonna try and swing until he realized he was an idiot and held up and ended up getting plunked square in the chest. I could hear the hit all the way from center field. He was so fat at the time it sounded like Rocky punching the meat.

 

I said all that to say this: Dayan Viciedo kinda sucks

 

This thread was worth it.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If I'm the White Sox, I keep Viciedo and DeAza and try to sell high on Alex Rios. A lot of teams are looking for outfielders with big bats and The White Sox need to start getting younger, or they're going to be looking up at the rest of the division in the next few years.