The 2012 Offseason Thread

[hankp101]

So if you trade for Chisendall, do you just DFA Ian Stewart?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So if you trade for Chisendall, do you just DFA Ian Stewart?

 

I wish.

[Gilby]

So if you trade for Chisendall, do you just DFA Ian Stewart?

 

Stewart's $2 million isn't guaranteed as far as I know. If he doesn't make the team out of ST, he isn't owed anything. Heck, if Chisenhall is brought in, they may agree to part ways before the spring even starts if he feels he can catch on with another team.

 

Looking back, my post doesn't have much to do with what you asked. I would say yes to the DFA. Stewart wasn't a free agent like I originally thought, so what I said above doesn't make sense.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Gilby

[Little Slide Rooter]

So . . . Cleveland is OK with Soriano, but San Francisco isn't? I'd say he doesn't understand geography, but he's been to these places mulitple times, so . . .

 

The issue with San Francisco was the chilly nights that weren't good on the joints, right? Don't have that in Cleveland, if that truly is the reason.

 

I wonder if it could also be due to the fact that he'd be playing 50% of his games at AT&T, one of baseball's worst hitters parks and another large chunk at PetCo and Dodger stadium.

[Little Slide Rooter]

So if you trade for Chisendall, do you just DFA Ian Stewart?

 

Stewart's $2 million isn't guaranteed as far as I know. If he doesn't make the team out of ST, he isn't owed anything. Heck, if Chisenhall is brought in, they may agree to part ways before the spring even starts if he feels he can catch on with another team.

 

Looking back, my post doesn't have much to do with what you asked. I would say yes to the DFA.

 

I'm thinking that if we acquired Chisenhall, Stewart gets as much time as possible between 2B and OF, and if he can play either somewhat serviceably, he stays in favor of either Valbuena or whomever would otherwise be pencilled in as the 5th OF.

[Clem Fandango]

Ian Stewart is not going to take time away from the best defensive 2nd baseman in the game

[dew1679666265]

Yay!

 

i don't understand why this is exciting without knowing any other details.

 

For me, it's that the Theo regime has been so picky about what they get in return for Soriano. If they're really close to trading him, I trust that they're not giving in too much.

[Guest]

This is so stupid and I love it a lot.

 

[toonsterwu]

As much as I've wanted to move Soriano in the past, I really hope we can get more than Chisenhall if we are going to eat money. That said, the Indians system is fairly thin, and their top guys aren't going anywhere.

 

Part of it is that I've never been huge on Chisenhall. In some respects, I view him similarly to Josh Vitters, a sweet swing that people expect power from, bat speed, and issues defensively at 3rd (although Chisenhall is better than Vitters and could probably stick there). Still ... approach is spotty, and I'm just not sure I buy that power materializing.

 

With only 2/36 left on Soriano's deal, don't know, I really would hope for a tick better. It's not a knock on Chisenhall as much as it is a question of how much value/additional value he brings. It's a gamble, and I guess I wouldn't be annoyed, and would rather understand it, if they got Chisenhall, but I'd really hope for more, or paying less than what was rumored out there on what we would pay.

[javy knows my name]

This is so stupid and I love it a lot.

 

 

aaahhhhahahahaha

[davell]

Well, there's likely another 40 man guy coming from our side, maybe 2, with Cleveland DFA'ing a guy or two, to give us the needed roster space. I'd really like to nab one of Mitch Brown or Kieran Lovegrove as PTBNL's, since we're within the 6 month window to do that now. And even though comp picks can't be dealt in the offseason, I wonder if they are allowed to be used as a PTBNL themselves? Cleveland has a 2nd rounder, which could be very useful, in this scenario. Especially if we followed up this move by signing Bourn and losing our 2nd rounder.

[Sammy Sofa]

This is so stupid and I love it a lot.

 

 

YESSSSSSSSSS.

[treebird]

This is so stupid and I love it a lot.

 

 

aaahhhhahahahaha

 

LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE

[RynoRules]

Chisenhall would be an underwhelming return, especially if we still have to eat a lot of Fonzy's salary.

[Cubswin11]

Chris Carpenter was DFA'd by the Red Sox, according to ESPN Chicago we have interest in possibly bringing him back

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Chris Carpenter was DFA'd by the Red Sox, according to ESPN Chicago we have interest in possibly bringing him back

 

MLB having expanded to 45-man reserve lists.

[Guest]

i was checking out the braves board on PSD and about half of them (not exaggerating) are upset with this trade.... because they're losing prado in the clubhouse. i hate baseball fans.

[toonsterwu]

i was checking out the braves board on PSD and about half of them (not exaggerating) are upset with this trade.... because they're losing prado in the clubhouse. i hate baseball fans.

 

Well ... and again, the Braves almost had to make this gamble, but if Justin Upton doesn't revert to something closer to his 2011/2009 form, and is instead closer to his 2012/2010 form, then the swap out from Upton to Prado won't be that significant.

 

Again ... a move the Braves had to make, but my guess is that is what some Braves fans probably wonder about. That said, I don't really read PSD, so don't know the type of people there.

[CubsWin]

Per ABTY

Cubs/Indians are in deep on Soriano talks... Sori has already told team Cleveland would be acceptable...

 

If true, I think its Chisenhall and he fills out 1B/3B bench and starter vs LHP role. Anyone else of "note" they may be after?

If the return is Chisenhall, the Cubs would likely have to include Valbuena because I doubt the Indians want Mark Reynolds playing 3B. He's a butcher at third but played pretty well at 1B last season which is where they signed him to play. And after Chisenhall, they don't have much at third, just Mike Aviles and no one good in AAA.

 

The Cubs might also want to include a 3rd player in the deal because they need to clear 2 spots on the 40-man and Chisenhall would be placed on the 40-man for sure. We have heard that Lake and Watkins were being discussed in trade talks earlier. Complete speculation, of course, but Soriano, Valbuena, Lake/Watkins/possibly Vitters (or one of many pitchers on the 40-man) and cash for Chisenhall and two younger prospects that wouldn't have to be put on the 40-man.

 

Of the younger prospects that are trade eligible, I would be interested in C - Alex Monsalve, RHP - Dillon Howard, OF - Anthony Santander, OF - Luigi Rodriguez, SS/3B - Ronny Rodriguez and LHP - Luis Lugo. There are other possibilities as well. Some players from the 2012 draft class could be traded as PTBNL, though that is a little unorthodox given the amount of time the Cubs would have to wait before they could be officially sent over. Davell mentioned that the Indians competitive compensation 2nd round draft pick can't be traded during the off-season, but might be able to be included as some sort of PTBNL.

 

That said, the rumor could fall through and all of this speculation would have been for naught...

[davell]

Dave Sappelt closed his Twitter account and made some tweets indicating changes were coming. He's not the guy I'd DFA, but I guess someone would probably trade a tiny something back.

[Cubswin11]

Dave Sappelt closed his Twitter account and made some tweets indicating changes were coming. He's not the guy I'd DFA, but I guess someone would probably trade a tiny something back.

Interesting, I hope they aren't getting rid of him. I'd like to see what he can do with some regular playing time. I wonder if he's close to someone on the team and they told him they have been told they are gone soon.

[Cubswin11]

i was checking out the braves board on PSD and about half of them (not exaggerating) are upset with this trade.... because they're losing prado in the clubhouse. i hate baseball fans.

People are so [expletive] dumb. Is there actually any reported incident of Upton being a bad guy or other teammates calling him out on things (because I've never seen anything to suggest he is more of a problem than 99% of the other guys in MLB)? Or was it just those weird comments KT made last year about him and his irrational dislike of the guy?

[craig]

As much as I've wanted to move Soriano in the past, I really hope we can get more than Chisenhall if we are going to eat money. That said, the Indians system is fairly thin, and their top guys aren't going anywhere.

 

Part of it is that I've never been huge on Chisenhall. In some respects, I view him similarly to Josh Vitters, a sweet swing that people expect power from, bat speed, and issues defensively at 3rd (although Chisenhall is better than Vitters and could probably stick there). Still ... approach is spotty, and I'm just not sure I buy that power materializing......

 

If we trade Soriano to Cleveland (which I strongly hope happens), I don't expect Chisenhall to be included. But if so, and if the Cubs scout his defensive profile as decent, I'd be pleasantly surprised. Heh, it's been years since I've thought that Sori and his salary could ever be traded for value. (So my expectations are probably lower than for many of you.) So if they could trade him for a young player with a chance to be good, and to be good for years, even if the odds aren't great, I'd be thrilled and all for it. Especially at 3B, where we could use a shot. Chisenhall's minor league numbers were never thrilling, but they've also seemed to show reasonable progression. HR/K/walk rates have all been reasonably, albeit never special. Seems to me that if you've got a guy with a good stroke, who could hit 20 HR's, keep his K-rate to around 20% or less (per AB), and take a fair share of walks, that would be pretty good. In the minors I'm sure he played against all lefties. In the majors, he might be more valuable as a platoon guy.

 

As for the Vitters comp, I'd think a LH version, who was enough better defensively so that he could play an acceptable 3B defensively, who was more walk-friendly, who had a good shot to be a 20-HR guy, and who didn't have the personality/mental challenges that Josh has, would be a very interesting possibility. (Of course, I have no idea whether Chisenhall is any better mentally/personality wise, and I know he got kicked out of college for problems; but most guys have a better baseball head than Vitters.) Vitters is still a prospect, so being like him but variably better in two or three aspects would be a pretty good prospect. Chisenhall has added weight, and should be healthy, so he might be poised for some power bump.

 

That said, very unlikely that Cleveland wants to trade him for Soriano. I'd think that if anything happens, it would end up being very different from Soriano-for-Chisenhall simple.

[Cubswin11]

Someone who runs an MLB organizations really said this, in 2013.... Regarding trading Bauer/Upton

 

neither player fit the club's preference for "the dirt-on-the-uniform, all-out, get-concussed-or-go-home sort of player."

[jersey cubs fan]

This is so stupid and I love it a lot.

 

 

There is not one thing even remotely stupid about that.