The 2012 Offseason Thread

[Guest]

I'd rather have Escobar than either.

 

If it makes you feel better...

 

The Marlins' trade of Yunel Escobar to the Rays earlier tonight was prompted by the fact that Escobar approached the club saying he was not comfortable at third base just days after telling them otherwise, writes Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post.

[Guest]

Slightly. Still would've been great to use him at 2B and use Barney in a trade for someone far better than Junior Lake though.

[Little Slide Rooter]

@mlbtraderumors: Rays more likely to trade Shields or Hellickson than Price; Blue Jays still seeking bullpen help: http://t.co/jhXGMfnY

 

I know it's been discussed in the past, but we should be pursuing Hellickson aggressively. Their acquisition of Escobar might make Barney a less attractive option for them, but then again, Zobrist will be 32 in May, and is a free agent after 2013, and he could be an expensive one, so they might consider flipping him. Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

[Cubswin11]

@mlbtraderumors: Rays more likely to trade Shields or Hellickson than Price; Blue Jays still seeking bullpen help: http://t.co/jhXGMfnY

 

I know it's been discussed in the past, but we should be pursuing Hellickson aggressively. Their acquisition of Escobar might make Barney a less attractive option for them, but then again, Zobrist will be 32 in May, and is a free agent after 2013, and he could be an expensive one, so they might consider flipping him. Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

He definitely fits what we are looking to acquire. But what's the big appeal with him, other than he had a good minor career/ is young? So far at the ML level his FIP/XFIP have been about 1.50 points higher than his ERA, he has very average K% and k/9 and he appears to have average velocity (average FB is about 91 MPH). I get that it can take time to figure it out, but he seems to have average stuff (from a velocity standpoint) and his FIP/XFIP points to him getting lucky/over performing his real ability.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Cubswin11

[Donzo1679666396]

Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

 

Is this for Hellickson, or for one of Hellickson's used jocks?

 

If it's actually for Hellickson, think Garza trade, except the Rays would want more.

 

Anyway, it's Shields who will be traded.

[Donzo1679666396]

FIP/XFIP points to him getting lucky/over performing his real ability.

 

Then "FIP/XFIP" would be wrong; he's filthy.

 

He has over 400 MLB innings pitched & less than 350 hits... Not by luck, it's by great pitching.

[Guest]

@mlbtraderumors: Rays more likely to trade Shields or Hellickson than Price; Blue Jays still seeking bullpen help: http://t.co/jhXGMfnY

 

I know it's been discussed in the past, but we should be pursuing Hellickson aggressively. Their acquisition of Escobar might make Barney a less attractive option for them, but then again, Zobrist will be 32 in May, and is a free agent after 2013, and he could be an expensive one, so they might consider flipping him. Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

He definitely fits what we are looking to acquire. But what's the big appeal with him, other than he had a good minor career/ is young? So far at the ML level his FIP/XFIP have been about 1.50 points higher than his ERA, he has very average K% and k/9 movies and he appears to have average velocity (average FB is about 91 MPH). I get that it can take time to figure it out, but he seems to have average stuff (from a velocity standpoint) and his FIP/XFIP points to him getting lucky/over performing his real ability.

 

Tampa Bay's defense is a factor. Most of their pitchers outperform their periphs. Hellickson is a bit of a strange case, though. He induces a lot of weak contact, something you might typically assume will adjust, but he has managed to maintain the trend for his two years now.

 

The other major issue is his strand rate. He pitches considerably better with men on base (3.74 FIP compared to 5.14 FIP with empty). With men in scoring he gets even better (3.47 FIP). Maybe he's tougher to pick up in the stretch. Maybe the sequencing is better. Maybe he's just been lucky...Probably all of the above.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

 

Is this for Hellickson, or for one of Hellickson's used jocks?

 

If it's actually for Hellickson, think Garza trade, except the Rays would want more.

 

Anyway, it's Shields who will be traded.

 

The Garza trade was prospect heavy. They're getting two cheap, productive big leaguers here as well as a high ceiling prospect. Remember, they sent us back a few prospects in that trade, one intriguing low level and a filler. But if they want a Sam Fuld and Robinson Chirinos thrown in, sure, have Campana and Rohan.

[NonProfitCow]

@mlbtraderumors: Rays more likely to trade Shields or Hellickson than Price; Blue Jays still seeking bullpen help: http://t.co/jhXGMfnY

 

I know it's been discussed in the past, but we should be pursuing Hellickson aggressively. Their acquisition of Escobar might make Barney a less attractive option for them, but then again, Zobrist will be 32 in May, and is a free agent after 2013, and he could be an expensive one, so they might consider flipping him. Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

Zobrist has 2 cheap option years

[Cubswin11]

@mlbtraderumors: Rays more likely to trade Shields or Hellickson than Price; Blue Jays still seeking bullpen help: http://t.co/jhXGMfnY

 

I know it's been discussed in the past, but we should be pursuing Hellickson aggressively. Their acquisition of Escobar might make Barney a less attractive option for them, but then again, Zobrist will be 32 in May, and is a free agent after 2013, and he could be an expensive one, so they might consider flipping him. Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

He definitely fits what we are looking to acquire. But what's the big appeal with him, other than he had a good minor career/ is young? So far at the ML level his FIP/XFIP have been about 1.50 points higher than his ERA, he has very average K% and k/9 movies and he appears to have average velocity (average FB is about 91 MPH). I get that it can take time to figure it out, but he seems to have average stuff (from a velocity standpoint) and his FIP/XFIP points to him getting lucky/over performing his real ability.

 

Tampa Bay's defense is a factor. Most of their pitchers outperform their periphs. Hellickson is a bit of a strange case, though. He induces a lot of weak contact, something you might typically assume will adjust, but he has managed to maintain the trend for his two years now.

 

The other major issue is his strand rate. He pitches considerably better with men on base (3.74 FIP compared to 5.14 FIP with empty). With men in scoring he gets even better (3.47 FIP). Maybe he's tougher to pick up in the stretch. Maybe the sequencing is better. Maybe he's just been lucky...Probably all of the above.

I didn't think about the defense thing, but should have. They definitely have been at the front of the creative defensive positioning/alingment thinking. That's interesting about the strand rate. You're probably right that it's a combination of all 3, but if we would be giving up good players/prospects for him I hope it's the sequencing/harder to pick up the ball thing rather than it being he is just getting lucky as that certainly won't stay a constant over his career.

[Little Slide Rooter]

@mlbtraderumors: Rays more likely to trade Shields or Hellickson than Price; Blue Jays still seeking bullpen help: http://t.co/jhXGMfnY

 

I know it's been discussed in the past, but we should be pursuing Hellickson aggressively. Their acquisition of Escobar might make Barney a less attractive option for them, but then again, Zobrist will be 32 in May, and is a free agent after 2013, and he could be an expensive one, so they might consider flipping him. Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

Zobrist has 2 cheap option years

 

I guess I read it wrong on BBR. But still, they could probably get a very nice return for him.

[Guest]

FIP/XFIP points to him getting lucky/over performing his real ability.

 

Then "FIP/XFIP" would be wrong; he's filthy.

 

He has over 400 MLB innings pitched & less than 350 hits... Not by luck, it's by great pitching.

 

Also, great fielding.

 

I'm certainly not going to bet against Hellickson becoming the new Matt Cain, but there's a lot of reasons to not back up the prospect truck for him. Mediocre K rate, non-special walk rate, very high HR rate, and hilariously good/lucky LOB and BABIP numbers among them.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd rather have Escobar than either.

 

If it makes you feel better...

 

The Marlins' trade of Yunel Escobar to the Rays earlier tonight was prompted by the fact that Escobar approached the club saying he was not comfortable at third base just days after telling them otherwise, writes Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post.

 

I don't see why I should buy that explanation. No, no we're not still selling off every player who makes more than a dollar, it's just that he was being unreasonable about playing 3B!

[ctcf]

Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS

Grilli market heating up (weak pun). 10 teams in. Good pitcher. Oddity: chose gary sheffield as his agent

[NonProfitCow]

@mlbtraderumors: Rays more likely to trade Shields or Hellickson than Price; Blue Jays still seeking bullpen help: http://t.co/jhXGMfnY

 

I know it's been discussed in the past, but we should be pursuing Hellickson aggressively. Their acquisition of Escobar might make Barney a less attractive option for them, but then again, Zobrist will be 32 in May, and is a free agent after 2013, and he could be an expensive one, so they might consider flipping him. Barney, DeJesus, and Vogelbach for Hellickson?

Zobrist has 2 cheap option years

 

I guess I read it wrong on BBR. But still, they could probably get a very nice return for him.

Well, yeah. A 6 WAR player under contract for 3/21. Would cost a ton to get him.

[waffle]

Rule 5 tomorrow?

 

Supposed to be fairly loaded, correct? I suspect we go pitching....

[Cubswin11]

Rule 5 tomorrow?

 

Supposed to be fairly loaded, correct? I suspect we go pitching....

Being discussed in the minor league thread. There are some intriguing arms.

 

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60917

[ctcf]

@Joelsherman1: #Indians may be ahead for Jason Bay, #Mariners still a factor. #Cubs on periphery

 

wut

[rocket]

@Joelsherman1: #Indians may be ahead for Jason Bay, #Mariners still a factor. #Cubs on periphery

 

wut

 

maybe theo has a concussion and thinks it's 2003. explains the navarro signing.

[bhogg]

I was under the impression that bay was the suck.

 

Maybe being a met drained him of his talent???

[Guest]

Red Sox General Manager Ben Cherington said Tuesday that the team has used the Patriots as a guide during their offseason. Cherington says that the team is prioritizing versatility in their free agent signings after watching the Patriots make good use of it on the football field.

 

 

I think we’ve learned a lesson from the lack of protection in different areas and depth in different areas,” said Cherington, via CSNNewEngland.com. “I guess it’s a little bit of a page out of the Patriots’ book, having guys who can cover different things. It’s important. Seems to me that the teams who get the six-month season and can afford the real droughts, tend to be the ones that have a bunch of guys who can cover different spots. Inevitably, you’re going to have guys out. That has been something we’ve talked about a lot.”

 

 

 

uhhh lol

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Snakebitten by injuries last year, team focuses on depth.

 

MLB front offices are really good at re-fighting the last war.

[ctcf]

Jason Grilli's agent, former MLB slugger Gary Sheffield, tells Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (Twitter link) that he's nearing a deal for his client. However, Sheffield didn't reveal which team was closing in on Grilli.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/jason-grilli-close-to-deal.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#HOhTPzIATRVqvzhZ.99

 

Hmmmm

[UMFan83]

Red Sox General Manager Ben Cherington said Tuesday that the team has used the Patriots as a guide during their offseason. Cherington says that the team is prioritizing versatility in their free agent signings after watching the Patriots make good use of it on the football field.

 

 

I think we’ve learned a lesson from the lack of protection in different areas and depth in different areas,” said Cherington, via CSNNewEngland.com. “I guess it’s a little bit of a page out of the Patriots’ book, having guys who can cover different things. It’s important. Seems to me that the teams who get the six-month season and can afford the real droughts, tend to be the ones that have a bunch of guys who can cover different spots. Inevitably, you’re going to have guys out. That has been something we’ve talked about a lot.”

 

 

 

uhhh lol

 

Yeah, I think the Red Sox are in trouble.

[Little Slide Rooter]

@Joelsherman1: #Indians may be ahead for Jason Bay, #Mariners still a factor. #Cubs on periphery

 

wut

 

If we were to trade for Soriano for something of value, would signing Bay as a bounceback candidate at 1-2 mil really be horrible?