Sammy Sosa to be on HOF ballot

[SABR Gamer]

What do you have against Morris?

 

Latest in a long line of meathead ex-players who don't belong in the HOF who piss and moan until they're let in.

 

Leave Santo out of this.

 

Wow...Santo had 4 seasons of 8.5 WAR or higher...with 3 of them being above 9.1, and one of them being 10.2.

 

9 seasons over 5 WAR.

 

8 seasons over 6 WAR.

 

Career 79.3 WAR...

 

Santo is an overwhelming Hall of Famer. It's pathetic it took so long for him to get in. 8th highest career WAR for a 3rd basemen ever. Only Alex Rodriguez and Mike Schmidt had equally or more impressive top 3 WAR seasons.

 

If Santo doesn't have his career cut short by health, he easily could have gone up to at least 4th best ever for a 3B.

 

Terrible comparison.

[AlwaysaCub]

It makes me feel old that the following people are appearing on the ballot this year:

 

ronDL white

kenny lofton

todd "superman" walker

sandy alomar jr

royce clayton

reggie sanders

jeff conine

 

It makes me feel young that the following people are appearing on the ballot this year, for the first time:

 

Julio Franco

[Guest]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/earned_run_avg_plus_career.shtml

the career ERA+ leaderboard- go ahead and try to find Jack Morris on there

 

But he didn't care about personal stats, he cared about winning. And that's what mattered. Just ask him.

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/pitching/piwper1.shtml

 

awesome. he's just as good as tom browning. and worse than carlos zambrano and freddy garcia.

 

Per 162 games for his career, he was an average of 16-12 each season. If you take out his first two years (first one only seven games, second one was mostly as a reliever), that average goes up to a whopping 17-12.

 

And this wasn't a Felix Hernandez situation where he was playing on crap teams every year. From 1979 (when he became a full-time starter) through 1990 (when he left), the Tigers finished under .500 twice and lost more than 83 games only once (1989).

[Banedon]

Tribune poll has Sammy at 70%-30% against going to the HOF.

 

All 7 Trib voters said they'll vote no.

[SouthSideRyan]

Tribune poll has Sammy at 70%-30% against going to the HOF.

 

All 7 Trib voters said they'll vote no.

 

5 out of 7 also voted in favor of a geocentric model of the universe.

[SouthSideRyan]

I hate the "He's x in WAR, so y" argument. But Jack Morris is [expletive] 22nd in bWAR among this year's candidates. (OUT OF 37)

[UMFan83]

Tribune poll has Sammy at 70%-30% against going to the HOF.

 

All 7 Trib voters said they'll vote no.

 

I'm trying to think if the Chicago writers would be more likely to vote for Sosa or less likely. If it's more likely, Sammy might not make it to the 2nd ballot.

[jersey cubs fan]

Local old school NY sports guy Russ Salzberg gave his thumbs up to Clemens and Bonds with a no to Sosa since the other two "put up HOF numbers before doing steroids".

[SouthSideRyan]

Tribune poll has Sammy at 70%-30% against going to the HOF.

 

All 7 Trib voters said they'll vote no.

 

I'm trying to think if the Chicago writers would be more likely to vote for Sosa or less likely. If it's more likely, Sammy might not make it to the 2nd ballot.

 

Less likely. They all tripped over themselves racing to say what a fraud he always was and they really knew it.

[Banedon]

Tribune poll has Sammy at 70%-30% against going to the HOF.

 

All 7 Trib voters said they'll vote no.

 

I'm trying to think if the Chicago writers would be more likely to vote for Sosa or less likely. If it's more likely, Sammy might not make it to the 2nd ballot.

 

Less likely. They all tripped over themselves racing to say what a fraud he always was and they really knew it.

 

Yeah, the Chicago writers all took the Sammy stuff really personally.

[Sammys Boombox]

Sammy was still the most exciting player I've ever cheered for and seems like a genuinely good guy. I could care less what sports writers have to say about him.

[Sammy Sofa]

Sammy [expletive] rules. The hacks are just trying to placate their meatball readers who love to pretend like they always hated the guy.

 

Actually, most of them did hate him because of, y'know, unforgivable brownness.

[OleMissCub]

Sammy had a 4 year stretch where he AVERAGED 61 HR and 149 RBI with a 168 OPS+. That's just so insane.

[Sammy Sofa]

Any Cubs fan that tries to explain why they didn't find that [expletive] awesome deserves a pummeling.

[OleMissCub]

Any Cubs fan that tries to explain why they didn't find that [expletive] awesome deserves a pummeling.

 

truth

 

I mean, we had a freaking Babe Ruth on OUR TEAM for half a decade.

 

but hey, let's just forget all that because he played his music loud or whatever.

[woodchip2153]

Any Cubs fan that tries to explain why they didn't find that [expletive] awesome deserves a pummeling.

 

Mark Grace was the real heart & soul of those teams.

[Sammy Sofa]

Any Cubs fan that tries to explain why they didn't find that [expletive] awesome deserves a pummeling.

 

Mark Grace was the real heart & soul of those teams.

 

BLACK RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!!

[Sammys Boombox]

After 04 I was crushed because I realized a WS without Sosa wouldn't mean as much as a WS with him. Probably just latching onto childhood heroes, but Wood/Sosa/Prior celebrating a WS... Wow. I loved those guys.

 

The Wrigley crowd chanting his name in big ABs are easily some of my fondest baseball memories.

[SouthSideRyan]

Any Cubs fan that tries to explain why they didn't find that [expletive] awesome deserves a pummeling.

 

Mark Grace was the real heart & soul of those teams.

 

He didn't wear batting gloves, smoked cigarettes. A real throwback when DUI laws weren't ruining this country.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

Maybe it's the meatball in me, but I really don't care if these guys did roids before it was uncouth. The whole "that was the game back then" argument is honestly a good one. Of course, I also think Pete Rose should be in the Hall. It's just where the best players of every generation should be honored, regardless of the aftermath.

 

Just my opinion. It's probably wrong.

[KingCubsFan]

Dawson: 61 WAR in 19 seasons

Morris: 38.5 WAR in 17 seasons

 

(discounting boundary seasons of little significance, for both)

I love when Cubs fan talk about how great Dawson was, and don't realize they've been watching (and complaining about) Dawson's baseball twin since 2007:

 

Soriano: .273/.323/.505 113 OPS+

 

Dawson: .279/.323/482 110 OPS +

[Sammy Sofa]

Maybe it's the meatball in me, but I really don't care if these guys did roids before it was uncouth. The whole "that was the game back then" argument is honestly a good one. Of course, I also think Pete Rose should be in the Hall.

 

This is what I was trying to point out earlier when Rose came out; what does the latter have to do with the former? If we're going to argue "everyone was doing it" and "it was kinda banned but not enforced" and all that stuff (which I agree with), what does that have to do with Rose? Rose was consciously breaking rules at the time that had basically been baseball's original sin for decades. It's not like it's something he can plead ignorance on, or point to a pervasive culture at the time that he got swept up in.

 

That said, I have no problem with Rose in the HoF; the thing that should stand (and seemingly bugs him even more than being left out of the Hall) is his lifetime ban from MLB (no coaching, managing, announcing, etc.). The Hall is a separate entity and should put him in if people vote him in.

[illiniguy]

I love steroids and wish they were back in the game. Sammy kicked all kinds of butt.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe it's the meatball in me, but I really don't care if these guys did roids before it was uncouth. The whole "that was the game back then" argument is honestly a good one. Of course, I also think Pete Rose should be in the Hall.

 

This is what I was trying to point out earlier when Rose came out; what does the latter have to do with the former? If we're going to argue "everyone was doing it" and "it was kinda banned but not enforced" and all that stuff (which I agree with), what does that have to do with Rose? Rose was consciously breaking rules at the time that had basically been baseball's original sin for decades. It's not like it's something he can plead ignorance on, or point to a pervasive culture at the time that he got swept up in.

 

That said, I have no problem with Rose in the HoF; the thing that should stand (and seemingly bugs him even more than being left out of the Hall) is his lifetime ban from MLB (no coaching, managing, announcing, etc.). The Hall is a separate entity and should put him in if people vote him in.

 

Rose should stay out just to piss off people stupid enough to care.

[champaignchris]

Local old school NY sports guy Russ Salzberg gave his thumbs up to Clemens and Bonds with a no to Sosa since the other two "put up HOF numbers before doing steroids".

If we're assuming Clemons' first year on the juice was 1997 and Bonds' was 2000, then I'm not sure i agree with his premise in Clemons' case. That would have been a pretty Albert Belle-like peak and flame out.

 

But regardless, there's a major flaw in his reasoning - There's no proof whatsoever that Sosa was on roids from 1998 to 2001. There's also no proof whatsoever that Bonds wasn't on roids prior to 2000. It's all guess work.