College Football - Week 11 (Nov. 10)

[Guest]

Complaining that NOTRE DAME is going to get screwed over based on pollster perception, especially relative to Kansas State, is a hilarious proposition.

[Tracer Bullet]

Typing it in all caps really sells it.

[Andy]

Complaining that NOTRE DAME is going to get screwed over based on pollster perception, especially relative to Kansas State, is a hilarious proposition.

And yet here we are. Notre Dame is 2 wins away from potentially being the first team in college football history to get shut out of the title picture for not going unbeaten against an objectively superior schedule impressively enough. You act as if this should just be accepted fact rather than debated.

[Guest]

Oregon can drop 70 on you when they click and that matters but the fact that they allowed 50+ in a game bothers me.

 

Then shouldn't the fact that Notre Dame has no offense bother you also?

 

Notre Dame scored 20 points at home against Purdue (third fewest vs. Purdue this year, better than only Eastern Kentucky and Eastern Michigan) and only 21 against Boston College (also third fewest vs. BC, better than only Maryland and Maine).

[bcl412]

Not really. I should mention that these preferences are not really rooted in logic. Bad defense just irritates me way more than bad offense. Should it impact the way I feel about who goes to the championship game? Probably not. Does it? Probably

[Guest]

Complaining that NOTRE DAME is going to get screwed over based on pollster perception, especially relative to Kansas State, is a hilarious proposition.

And yet here we are. Notre Dame is 2 wins away from potentially being the first team in college football history to get shut out of the title picture for not going unbeaten against an objectively superior schedule impressively enough. You act as if this should just be accepted fact rather than debated.

 

But it's not objectively superior. By Sagarin, KSU and ND's schedule's are basically identical. Oregon is 16/17 spots worse but they have the current No. 11, No. 12 and either No. 13 or 18 left on the schedule, so theirs will get significantly better.

[Guest]

Complaining that NOTRE DAME is going to get screwed over based on pollster perception, especially relative to Kansas State, is a hilarious proposition.

And yet here we are. Notre Dame is 2 wins away from potentially being the first team in college football history to get shut out of the title picture for not going unbeaten against an objectively superior schedule impressively enough. You act as if this should just be accepted fact rather than debated.

 

I'm saying that blaming preseason polls and inertia for Notre Dame's current 3rd place standing is a bit silly. There's an abundance of reasons, legitmate and illegitimate, for Notre Dame to be 3rd in the polls. Notre Dame losing a popularity contest to Oregon and Kansas State is not high on that list of reasons.

[Tracer Bullet]

Oregon can drop 70 on you when they click and that matters but the fact that they allowed 50+ in a game bothers me.

 

Then shouldn't the fact that Notre Dame has no offense bother you also?

 

Notre Dame scored 20 points at home against Purdue (third fewest vs. Purdue this year, better than only Eastern Kentucky and Eastern Michigan) and only 21 against Boston College (also third fewest vs. BC, better than only Maryland and Maine).

 

Are you looking just at those 2 games to determine what ND's offense does? I guess I don't understand that logic. They put up 30 against Pitt and Oklahoma. So the offense must be fine.

[Tracer Bullet]

Obviously the reality is that ND doesn't have the offense that Oregon has. But no team in the country has the D that ND has. So they play to their strengths and keep the points down by grinding the clock. ND had just 3 possessions in the first half against BC and put up 14 points. Every coach in the country would take that point/possession ratio.

[CubColtPacer]

Complaining that NOTRE DAME is going to get screwed over based on pollster perception, especially relative to Kansas State, is a hilarious proposition.

And yet here we are. Notre Dame is 2 wins away from potentially being the first team in college football history to get shut out of the title picture for not going unbeaten against an objectively superior schedule impressively enough. You act as if this should just be accepted fact rather than debated.

 

But it's not objectively superior. By Sagarin, KSU and ND's schedule's are basically identical. Oregon is 16/17 spots worse but they have the current No. 11, No. 12 and either No. 13 or 18 left on the schedule, so theirs will get significantly better.

 

To add on to that since one data point is frequently flawed:

 

Colley has ND's schedule 26th, KState 44, Oregon 63rd

Anderson/Hester has KState 31, ND 32, Oregon 50.

 

I think we can put to bed the theory that pollsters inherently favor ND. It might have been true in the past (although I don't think so) but it certainly isn't anymore. Even as an ND fan though, I can understand why pollsters have the other two ahead. Having too many close wins has always mattered in the polls, and their schedules are close enough that voters can use that to put ND behind. Hopefully one of those two lose with ND winning out to make it academic.

[abuck1220]

pollsters probably hate ND for the same reasons that everyone else in the universe hates ND.

[Guest]

Oregon can drop 70 on you when they click and that matters but the fact that they allowed 50+ in a game bothers me.

 

Then shouldn't the fact that Notre Dame has no offense bother you also?

 

Notre Dame scored 20 points at home against Purdue (third fewest vs. Purdue this year, better than only Eastern Kentucky and Eastern Michigan) and only 21 against Boston College (also third fewest vs. BC, better than only Maryland and Maine).

 

Are you looking just at those 2 games to determine what ND's offense does? I guess I don't understand that logic. They put up 30 against Pitt and Oklahoma. So the offense must be fine.

 

The point is that if he's going to dock Oregon for giving up 51 in a game, he should dock Notre Dame the same for only scoring 20 against Purdue.

 

Like you said in your next post, ND has a great defense and a mediocre offense. Oregon has a great offense and a mediocre defense. Oregon doesn't have to worry about giving up a few points because the offense is going to score in the same way that ND doesn't have to worry about scoring 40 points every week because they know the defense isn't going to give up much. Both teams play to their strengths.

[SouthSideRyan]

pollsters probably hate ND for the same reasons that everyone else in the universe hates ND.

 

Jealousy mostly.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

I trust Sagarin because Sagarin states that the teams are now WELL CONNECTED and so all three ratings are UNBIASED. It also states that ELO_CHESS, only winning and losing matters; the score margin is of no consequence, which makes it very "politically correct".

 

And Sagarin says that K-State SOS is 29, and ND's is 28. ND is one better, but what's criminal is that the VOTERS think Oregon is better because of their flashy costumes and flashy offense. Sagarin says Oregon's SOS is a putrid 45. So, I don't want hear of any junk that "Who did K-State play?" Give me a break.

 

Truthfully, I'd rather have a ND and K-State NC game based of the SOS, since both of those teams played tougher schedules than Oregon did.

 

I'm telling you that my opinion is WELL CONNECTED and UNBIASED and only winning matters, not MOV, so you should believe me. I mean, I'm telling you that. So why wouldn't you believe me? Oh, probably bc you've analyzed Sagarin's exact formula and understand it to be better. Fair enough.

 

Hmm... So if I were to choose a good indidcator that a pitcher is good based of W and L's but ignore his ERA, ERA+ or WHIP, or ignore the W-L but focus on his ERA, ERA+ and WHIP?

 

I'll chose the 2nd choice.

 

I'm done with this silly argument.

 

Sagarin loves the big 12 bc the only team with bad losses is Kansas. Might be bc the big 12 has played such a ridiculous OOC schedule that they've virtually eliminated the chance for OOC losses. The entire conf has only played 7 games against what would be automatic qualifying schools and they're 5-2. So it looks at 10 teams and sees 2 OOC losses against good teams and only 1 team with bad losses. So the algorithm says the conf must be strong.

 

Again, why don't you believe me when I tell you I'm unbiased but when Sagarin says it's unbiased you buy in? You don't have a problem with 7 games being enough to determine the strength of a conference?

[jersey cubs fan]

Again, why don't you believe me when I tell you I'm unbiased but when Sagarin says it's unbiased you buy in?

 

that's a really stupid line of argument

[Tracer Bullet]

Again, why don't you believe me when I tell you I'm unbiased but when Sagarin says it's unbiased you buy in?

 

that's a really stupid line of argument

 

Ok?

[Guest]

Not really. I should mention that these preferences are not really rooted in logic. Bad defense just irritates me way more than bad offense. Should it impact the way I feel about who goes to the championship game? Probably not. Does it? Probably

So you're picking bears over packers this year. Got it. :)

[Guest]

It's all going to be a moot point, anyway. Chances are good someone will lose a game before this has to be decided.

[Andy]

It's all going to be a moot point, anyway. Chances are good someone will lose a game before this has to be decided.

And keep us from having stuff to yell at each other about? What fun is that?? :twisted: