2012-2013 NBA Thread

SouthSideRyan · February 16, 2013

Rondo for Howard?

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21710534/whats-right-for-dwight-will-lakers-deal-howard

No thanks.

Likewise.

USSoccer · February 16, 2013

Yeah, I'm sure the Celtics are all about trading their actually good player who has a fluke injury for some clown assed clown with a chronic back injury.

SouthSideRyan · February 16, 2013

Read the Jordan article... and while there is a little bit of "back in my day" to it, I do agree that the level of competition that MJ faced when he was putting up his most insane numbers (37 ppg in 86-87 and then 35 ppg on 53% shooting in 87-88 and 32/8/8/3 steals with 54% shooting in 88-89) was quite a bit higher than it is now, and his teams weren't exactly stacked with Pippen and Horace Grant being rookies in 87-88.

I'm not sure if the level of competition was "quite a bit higher than it is now" as a whole. At worst, it's equal, but I don't think it's as much you think. It's really tough to compare as one era was pretty traditional players (as far as positions and roles) and the other is FULL of hybrid players. The one thing I will say is that big men of today's couldn't compete with the big men in MJ's time. It's not even close IMO. What impresses me about the late 80s/early 90s was how much you can get away with defensively. That's what makes MJ so awesome compare to like Kobe and LeBron. Dude was scoring and putting up insane #s while defense could do whatever they want to him every single game (no hand check rule/never had to worry about flagrant or technical on hard foul/etc).

Yeah, poor Michael got hacked constantly, and never got a call.

PosterToBeNamedLater · February 16, 2013

Read the Jordan article... and while there is a little bit of "back in my day" to it, I do agree that the level of competition that MJ faced when he was putting up his most insane numbers (37 ppg in 86-87 and then 35 ppg on 53% shooting in 87-88 and 32/8/8/3 steals with 54% shooting in 88-89) was quite a bit higher than it is now, and his teams weren't exactly stacked with Pippen and Horace Grant being rookies in 87-88.

I'm not sure if the level of competition was "quite a bit higher than it is now" as a whole. At worst, it's equal, but I don't think it's as much you think. It's really tough to compare as one era was pretty traditional players (as far as positions and roles) and the other is FULL of hybrid players. The one thing I will say is that big men of today's couldn't compete with the big men in MJ's time. It's not even close IMO. What impresses me about the late 80s/early 90s was how much you can get away with defensively. That's what makes MJ so awesome compare to like Kobe and LeBron. Dude was scoring and putting up insane #s while defense could do whatever they want to him every single game (no hand check rule/never had to worry about flagrant or technical on hard foul/etc).

Yeah, poor Michael got hacked constantly, and never got a call.

He got calls, but it was a different game then. I was watching an old Bulls/Knicks playoff game a few months ago and there was a drive by Pippen where he was absolutely hammered. If it happened today it would most likely be a flagrant foul, but nothing was even called. There was a lot more grabbing as well when offensive players tried to move around.

Bilas has been harping all year about how college basketball needs to be cleaned up. He always mentions that this is how the NBA used to be until they started calling much more contact a few years ago. If you look at foul shots per game, I am sure Jordan has similar numbers to Lebron or wade, but those foul shots today are coming from less egregious fouls. They rarely if ever get hit as hard as people in the 90's did. They are more free to make moves because of how closely fouls are called now.

CubColtPacer · February 17, 2013

I picked out 3 random years in different parts of Jordan's career, and then compared it to 3 different parts of LeBron's career.

NBA 1988:

average PPG: 109.2

average FTA: 2363

average FG%: .477

NBA 1992

average PPG: 105.3

average FTA: 2273

average FG%: .473

NBA 1996

average PPG: 96.9

average FTA: 2078

average FG%: .455

NBA 2004

average PPG: 97.2

average FTA: 2137

average FG%: .447

NBA 2008

average PPG: 100.0

average FTA: 2029

average FG%: .459

NBA 2012

average PPG: 97.8

average FTA: 1807 (this is a projection based on the games so far)

average FG%: .450

So while Jordan might have had some disadvantages with the rules in his day, he also had some major advantages. Defenses were simply not very good in the majority of his career. It wasn't until he came back to basketball that all the offensive statistics started plummeting.

Free throws were also way up in Jordan's day compared to LeBron's. In fact, earlier this year one of the ESPN columns had a stat that was something like each of the last 5 years have been setting records for the lowest amount of free throws in a game. That's probably due to a variety of factors, including defensive coaches coming in the league with better access to video and tendencies and also many more bigs that are primarily asked to play defense than there used to be.

Obviously the league has changed dramatically in the last 20 years, some of which has helped the offense and some has helped the defense. I simply don't buy the argument that Jordan would have done better in this era than in his. The statistics all seem to point to LeBron's era actually being the more defensive one with less foul calls than Jordan's was.

SpongeWorthy · February 17, 2013

Those meta stats don't mean much if they aren't adjusted for pace

CubColtPacer · February 17, 2013

Those meta stats don't mean much if they aren't adjusted for pace

That's why I included field goal percentage which isn't influenced so much by pace. But you're right, points per game (and to a lesser amount free throws) are both heavily pace influenced.

I should have included this one to more properly account for pace. Here is the offensive rating (essentially points per 100 possessions) of each of those years:

1988: 107.8

1992: 108.0

1996: 106.7

2004: 106.1

2008: 108.3

2012: 105.5

So more variation, but still overall less for LeBron's era. And the biggest reason that it's even close is that 3 point shooting has gotten so much better in the last 10 years, which was never a big part of Jordan or LeBron's game (96 of course fits in with the last 10 years in that regard because it was one of the years where the 3 point line was shorter).

Also, I wouldn't completely dismiss pace. Players who play in a faster pace environment still have the ability to rack up more raw stats. So even if this was just as efficient of an offensive environment as 20 years ago, Jordan may not have put up quite as large statistical numbers just because of an average slower pace.

illiniguy · February 17, 2013

James white is going to put on a show tonight, almost enough of a show to make me want to watch nick cannon. Almost.

davell · February 17, 2013

This has been awful all the way around.

Cubswin11 · February 18, 2013

Jerry Buss died

mul21 · February 18, 2013

Jerry Buss died

So does Phil own the Lakers now and he can just ride in and rescue them?

Pushfrog98 · February 18, 2013

Jerry Buss died

The Onion certainly had a "Too Soon" article posted already:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/jerry-buss-succumbs-to-horrible-lakers-season,31339/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post:headline:default

(I laughed and am going to hell).

Banedon · February 19, 2013

Reddit posting pics that feel wrong...

http://i.imgur.com/hT5lI9J.jpg

http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/hakeem-ewing.jpg

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/50957359-rasheed-wallace-of-the-detroit-pistons-looks-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QLKrgDGlrUM0UXZwH7gBEjsyLSFhlrLcJwFsPOdICLDqznhu63OMmGOFFpYTsNKQww%3D%3D

That Ewing/Hakeem one is the weirdest to me. I don't remember either of those guys being on those teams.

Cubswin11 · February 19, 2013

Yeah, that is a weird one. If you asked me I would have said Ewing only played on the Knicks in his career.

On another note, apparently the Hawks are telling teams they are going to trade Josh Smith before the deadline Thurdsay. Nets, Bucks, Suns, Wizards, Celtics are all in on him, apparently.

Banedon · February 19, 2013

Yeah, that is a weird one. If you asked me I would have said Ewing only played on the Knicks in his career.

Not only that, but he was in Seattle?

In 2000, he left the Knicks as part of a trade to the Seattle SuperSonics. In the trade, the Knicks sent Ewing to Seattle and Chris Dudley to Phoenix, and received Glen Rice, Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Vladimir Stepania, Lazaro Borrell, Vernon Maxwell, two first-round draft picks (from the Los Angeles Lakers and Seattle) and two second-round draft picks from Seattle. After a year with the Sonics and another with the Orlando Magic, he announced his retirement on September 18, 2002. That season, he took a job as an assistant coach with the Washington Wizards.

Thed Hoyerstein · February 19, 2013

Andrew Bynum's hair. Wow.

http://deadspin.com/5985373/andrew-bynums-hair-is-just-all-fucked-up-now?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Edit: Apologies for the profanity in the link.

Sammy Sofa · February 19, 2013

That photo makes it look like he suffered a stroke that somehow effected his face and his hair.

RynoRules · February 19, 2013

With Buss gone, RealGM has posted a poll asking which other NBA owner you would want to own your fave team, were you given the choice. Cuban is running away with it followed by the Russian guy from NJ, but I think that's crazy talk.

I'd pick Holt from SA. That has to be the least dramatic and most quitely succesful franchise in professional sports. They spend wisely and draft well, and Holt seems to stay out of the basketball operations.

Banedon · February 20, 2013

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226232/Popovich-Cursed-Out-Howard-During-ASG

Gregg Popovich reportedly yelled several curse words at Dwight Howard during Sunday's All-Star Game, according to sources.

Popovich drew up a play for Howard during a timeout, but he was in his warmups not paying attention and socializing.

Howard's lack of focus has been alluded to by Kobe Bryant and others during his tenure with the Los Angeles Lakers.

Cubswin11 · February 20, 2013

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226232/Popovich-Cursed-Out-Howard-During-ASG

Gregg Popovich reportedly yelled several curse words at Dwight Howard during Sunday's All-Star Game, according to sources.

Popovich drew up a play for Howard during a timeout, but he was in his warmups not paying attention and socializing.

Howard's lack of focus has been alluded to by Kobe Bryant and others during his tenure with the Los Angeles Lakers.

That [expletive] guy, it's Dwight Howard's world and we're all just living in it

JimSorgi · February 21, 2013

I'm getting really excited about this Pacers team. They're title contenders with a healthy Granger.

Cubswin11 · February 21, 2013

So the Kings are already giving up on on T-Rob, that's interesting.

Banedon · February 21, 2013

I'm getting really excited about this Pacers team. They're title contenders with a healthy Granger.

They'd be the 6th seed in the West.

CubColtPacer · February 21, 2013

I'm getting really excited about this Pacers team. They're title contenders with a healthy Granger.

They'd be the 6th seed in the West.

Part of that was the fact that Granger was shut down the day the season started, and the Pacers started off really badly because of it. Since Paul George made the leap in early December they've been really good. And then of course adding a close to All Star level player on top of that should help them quite a bit.

I do agree that I would give them very low odds for the title because they are both less talented and match up poorly with the Spurs/OKC. They have a solid shot of getting out of the East though. The only team that is more talented then them in the East is Miami. The Pacers probably have the best shot of anybody in the East of knocking off Miami because they match up so well with them. They dominate them on the boards, have three wing defenders to chase LeBron/Wade, and the Heat don't have anybody to match up with West.

Obviously still underdogs because of the LeBron factor, but that will be quite a series if it happens. There's a couple teams in the East that match up well with the Pacers that could knock them off before that series ever would take place though.

wolf stansson · February 21, 2013

I'm getting really excited about this Pacers team. They're title contenders with a healthy Granger.

If the title they are contending for is 2nd best team in the east, sure.

2012-2013 NBA Thread

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