2012-2013 NBA Thread

[SpongeWorthy]

I'm still impressed with what he did with those Cav's teams. He came so close to winning a title nearly by himself in a team sport because those rosters were pretty awful, aside from him.

 

They didn't really come all that close.

[bcl412]

I'm still impressed with what he did with those Cav's teams. He came so close to winning a title nearly by himself in a team sport because those rosters were pretty awful, aside from him.

 

They didn't really come all that close.

 

They went to the Finals, that's close to me. Granted the East was weak and they got swept.

[SpongeWorthy]

I'm still impressed with what he did with those Cav's teams. He came so close to winning a title nearly by himself in a team sport because those rosters were pretty awful, aside from him.

 

They didn't really come all that close.

 

They went to the Finals, that's close to me. Granted the East was weak and they got swept.

 

Then Dwight Howard got closer than Lebron ever did to winning a title as a 1 man team.

[KingCubsFan]

Jordan's clearly threatened by LeBron. It is kind of pathetic but I imagine certain things do go into the mental makeup of someone as elite as MJ was.

 

I'm starting to accept that LeBron may very well be the best player ever by the time it's over and I'm going to enjoy watching it.

Most physically gifted? Maybe. But I find it hard to see how anyone can make a legitimate argument that Lebron is close to Jordan. It's similar to the Kobe argument.

[bcl412]

I try to be open minded about Michael Jordan and the GOAT thing. There is a mythos to him that he can't be touched and I don't want to be restricted to thinking that and I'm honestly still learning NBA basketball, what is it about MJ that makes him untouchable, even to a guy as good as LeBron?

 

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

[illiniguy]

I try to be open minded about Michael Jordan and the GOAT thing. There is a mythos to him that he can't be touched and I don't want to be restricted to thinking that and I'm honestly still learning NBA basketball, what is it about MJ that makes him untouchable, even to a guy as good as LeBron?

 

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

He's not untouchable, LeBron is very much in the conversation. That said he's not quite at Jordans level, at least yet.

[Splendid Splinter]

They we, but part of mjs lore is 6 finals, 6 titles, 6 finals MVPs.

 

Not to mention that it was 2 three peats in 8 years. The other 2 years?? MJ was playing baseball and then came back very late in '95. People do "think" that if MJ didn't retired the first time that the Bulls would've won 8 straight.

 

I'm starting to accept that LeBron may very well be the best player ever by the time it's over and I'm going to enjoy watching it.

 

I'm going to enjoy watching him too esp. when he's on a hot streak. People are so impressed with this 7 game stretch that LeBron got going that they think it's unbeatable. I'm much more impressed with MJ's 10 triple doubles in a 11 game stretch from 3/25/89-4/14/89 than the streak of 30+ pts and 58+% FG.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/

 

Ended up with 15 triple doubles that year. Sad part about that was MJ didn't lead the league in triple doubles that year. Magic had 17!

[bcl412]

I try to be open minded about Michael Jordan and the GOAT thing. There is a mythos to him that he can't be touched and I don't want to be restricted to thinking that and I'm honestly still learning NBA basketball, what is it about MJ that makes him untouchable, even to a guy as good as LeBron?

 

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

He's not untouchable, LeBron is very much in the conversation. That said he's not quite at Jordans level, at least yet.

 

Of course, but how close is LeBron to Jordan, when Jordan was at the same point in his career?

[Splendid Splinter]

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

 

 

I agree with you. As far as career goes, LeBron is a better distributor. BUT... people do forget that Jordan average 8 assists a game in his '88-'89 season though. So you can't say "than Jordan ever was". I'm convinced that MJ would've had more seasons like '88-'89 in the early 90s if Pippen wasn't there.

 

illiniguy has it right though. Lebron is in the conversation, but he's just not quite there yet. He's very close IMO as he's there or even better right now as a player than MJ, but he needs the awards/rings/etc to catch up.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Splendid Splinter

[illiniguy]

I try to be open minded about Michael Jordan and the GOAT thing. There is a mythos to him that he can't be touched and I don't want to be restricted to thinking that and I'm honestly still learning NBA basketball, what is it about MJ that makes him untouchable, even to a guy as good as LeBron?

 

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

He's not untouchable, LeBron is very much in the conversation. That said he's not quite at Jordans level, at least yet.

 

Of course, but how close is LeBron to Jordan, when Jordan was at the same point in his career?

Oh he's on pace with him. The only difference right now is LeBron has been to more finals. But he has already lost two. The first one I don't think hurt him, it was more amazing he made it there. The second one though I think is one where MJ Has a leg up now. The heat were favored and choked that title away.

[illiniguy]

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

 

 

I agree with you. As far as career goes, LeBron is a better distributor. BUT... people do forget that Jordan average 8 assists game in his '88-'89 season though. So you can't say "than Jordan ever was". I'm convinced that MJ would've had more seasons like '88-'89 in the early 90s if Pippen wasn't there.

 

illiniguy has it right though. Lebron is in the conversation, but he's just not quite there yet. He's very close IMO as he's there or even better right now as a player than MJ, but he needs the awards/rings/etc to catch up.

According to per he's still behind him and that's with LeBrons decline to go.

[Splendid Splinter]

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

 

 

I agree with you. As far as career goes, LeBron is a better distributor. BUT... people do forget that Jordan average 8 assists game in his '88-'89 season though. So you can't say "than Jordan ever was". I'm convinced that MJ would've had more seasons like '88-'89 in the early 90s if Pippen wasn't there.

 

illiniguy has it right though. Lebron is in the conversation, but he's just not quite there yet. He's very close IMO as he's there or even better right now as a player than MJ, but he needs the awards/rings/etc to catch up.

According to per he's still behind him and that's with LeBrons decline to go.

 

That's true. He is behind, but it's only by .4 or something like that at the moment and Lebron isn't declining yet. Not sure how much a .4 difference would make. Regardless we're debating between the all time PER career leader vs the #2 all time PER career leader. Peak/prime years wise... they're just as close and LeBron is still in his peak/prime for another 3 years probably.

 

Top 6 PER seasons:

 

MJ- 31.7/31.6/31.2/31.1/29.8/29.7 good for 30.85 avg

 

LeBron- 31.7/31.4 (this year so it still go up or down)/31.1/30.7/29.1/28.1 good for 30.35 avg

[illiniguy]

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

 

 

I agree with you. As far as career goes, LeBron is a better distributor. BUT... people do forget that Jordan average 8 assists game in his '88-'89 season though. So you can't say "than Jordan ever was". I'm convinced that MJ would've had more seasons like '88-'89 in the early 90s if Pippen wasn't there.

 

illiniguy has it right though. Lebron is in the conversation, but he's just not quite there yet. He's very close IMO as he's there or even better right now as a player than MJ, but he needs the awards/rings/etc to catch up.

According to per he's still behind him and that's with LeBrons decline to go.

 

That's true. He is behind, but it's only by .4 or something like that at the moment and Lebron isn't declining yet. Not sure how much a .4 difference would make. Regardless we're debating between the all time PER career leader vs the #2 all time PER career leader. Peak/prime years wise... they're just as close and LeBron is still in his peak/prime for another 3 years probably.

 

Top 6 PER seasons:

 

MJ- 31.7/31.6/31.2/31.1/29.8/29.7 good for 30.85 avg

 

LeBron- 31.7/31.4 (this year so it still go up or down)/31.1/30.7/29.1/28.1 good for 30.35 avg

Yeah they are really close.

[SouthSideRyan]

Jordan's clearly threatened by LeBron. It is kind of pathetic but I imagine certain things do go into the mental makeup of someone as elite as MJ was.

 

I'm starting to accept that LeBron may very well be the best player ever by the time it's over and I'm going to enjoy watching it.

 

I'm loving it.

The thing of it is if LeBron doesn't win a few more titles he won't be remembered as great as MJ.

 

He's 28, he'll win a few. He won't be remembered as great as MJ until the current media guys die though.

[illiniguy]

Jordan's clearly threatened by LeBron. It is kind of pathetic but I imagine certain things do go into the mental makeup of someone as elite as MJ was.

 

I'm starting to accept that LeBron may very well be the best player ever by the time it's over and I'm going to enjoy watching it.

 

I'm loving it.

The thing of it is if LeBron doesn't win a few more titles he won't be remembered as great as MJ.

 

He's 28, he'll win a few. He won't be remembered as great as MJ until the current media guys die though.

I think it's funny that people old enough to see all of michaels Jordans career side with Jordan. Yet the people who just caught the end of it think LeBron is better.

 

He should win a couple more, but stuff happens.

[Banedon]

Rondo for Howard?

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21710534/whats-right-for-dwight-will-lakers-deal-howard

[illiniguy]

Rondo for Howard?

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21710534/whats-right-for-dwight-will-lakers-deal-howard

Get another point guard that Kobe won't let have the ball a good chunk of the time? Why?

[Magnetic Curses]

Jordan's clearly threatened by LeBron. It is kind of pathetic but I imagine certain things do go into the mental makeup of someone as elite as MJ was.

 

I'm starting to accept that LeBron may very well be the best player ever by the time it's over and I'm going to enjoy watching it.

 

I'm loving it.

The thing of it is if LeBron doesn't win a few more titles he won't be remembered as great as MJ.

 

He's 28, he'll win a few. He won't be remembered as great as MJ until the current media guys die though.

 

Michael was a great villain, maybe the greatest. Lebron is just a golem.

[Rex Buckingham]

Read the Jordan article... and while there is a little bit of "back in my day" to it, I do agree that the level of competition that MJ faced when he was putting up his most insane numbers (37 ppg in 86-87 and then 35 ppg on 53% shooting in 87-88 and 32/8/8/3 steals with 54% shooting in 88-89) was quite a bit higher than it is now, and his teams weren't exactly stacked with Pippen and Horace Grant being rookies in 87-88.

[imb]

jordan would buttfuck the nba if he was in his prime today. he'd be a freight train

[Guest]

Rondo for Howard?

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21710534/whats-right-for-dwight-will-lakers-deal-howard

 

No thanks.

[Splendid Splinter]

Read the Jordan article... and while there is a little bit of "back in my day" to it, I do agree that the level of competition that MJ faced when he was putting up his most insane numbers (37 ppg in 86-87 and then 35 ppg on 53% shooting in 87-88 and 32/8/8/3 steals with 54% shooting in 88-89) was quite a bit higher than it is now, and his teams weren't exactly stacked with Pippen and Horace Grant being rookies in 87-88.

 

I'm not sure if the level of competition was "quite a bit higher than it is now" as a whole. At worst, it's equal, but I don't think it's as much you think. It's really tough to compare as one era was pretty traditional players (as far as positions and roles) and the other is FULL of hybrid players. The one thing I will say is that big men of today's couldn't compete with the big men in MJ's time. It's not even close IMO. What impresses me about the late 80s/early 90s was how much you can get away with defensively. That's what makes MJ so awesome compare to like Kobe and LeBron. Dude was scoring and putting up insane #s while defense could do whatever they want to him every single game (no hand check rule/never had to worry about flagrant or technical on hard foul/etc).

[cubbyvirus00]

I try to be open minded about Michael Jordan and the GOAT thing. There is a mythos to him that he can't be touched and I don't want to be restricted to thinking that and I'm honestly still learning NBA basketball, what is it about MJ that makes him untouchable, even to a guy as good as LeBron?

 

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

He's not untouchable, LeBron is very much in the conversation. That said he's not quite at Jordans level, at least yet.

 

 

....yeah so do we want to bring up playoff statistics or the fact that up until nearly 1.5 years ago LBJ was considered a playoff and finals choke artist?

[illiniguy]

I try to be open minded about Michael Jordan and the GOAT thing. There is a mythos to him that he can't be touched and I don't want to be restricted to thinking that and I'm honestly still learning NBA basketball, what is it about MJ that makes him untouchable, even to a guy as good as LeBron?

 

LeBron has accomplished a lot at his age and he does seem to be more of a distributor, despite his abilities, than Jordan ever was so I do find it hard to compare the two statistically.

He's not untouchable, LeBron is very much in the conversation. That said he's not quite at Jordans level, at least yet.

 

 

....yeah so do we want to bring up playoff statistics or the fact that up until nearly 1.5 years ago LBJ was considered a playoff and finals choke artist?

Obviously that's where LeBron trails. But he still has around ten years to fix that.

[Derwood]

Jordan dominated in an era of great centers. At 6'6", he thrived in the post against amazing defenders.

 

LeBron is a freak of nature, but who is challenging him in the lane?