Good job theo

[XZero771679666304]

Given the dearth of 3B options going forward, I wouldn't have minded seeing ARam back, but I can't fault Theo/Jed for not wanting to commit to him for three years, either. He's not exactly the most stable player either, as TT pointed out. And that doesn't figure to improve with age.

 

It sure sucked to see him have a nice year with Milwaukee, though.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It's no less absurd than "They did pretty much everything right, just virtually all of their gambles turned out bad," which is also frequently pushed.

 

They made the decision to do everything with the view that the 2012 season was worthless. The result was predictable and therefore intentional. Heck, even a guy like Maholm looks to me like he was acquired with the intent to flip.

 

yea, turning a few million bucks into the organization's top pitching prospect (in a span of months) was definitely one of his bigger failures

 

It was a fantastic success. But it's only point was to acquire a prospect for him. The fact that he occasionally helped the 2012 Cubs win was incidental.

 

Plan seemed more like to pick up enough once high ceiling, now low risk highish reward guys (Maholm, Volstad, Stewart, Cardenas) as well as cheap veteran role players (Johnson, Corpas, Camp, Sonnenstein) that best case scenerio we could contend, next best case scenerio, we wouldn't contend, but we'd probably have some decent trade chips, and worst case scnerio, he'd roll snake eyes on the lot of them, but it wouldn't have any negative financial impact on his long term plans. Beyond that, he was just flinging [expletive] at the wall in hopes that something would stick in all of the minor league signings and waiver claims.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Theo said yesterday he sees FA as the least valuable way to improve the team. My guess all along has been the bulk of big moves we make winds up being thru trades. I wish like hell we had gotten Cespedes. At this point, I wish we had gotten Puig. I'm still not going to be sold on Darvish until he does it a 2nd season though.

 

We'd rather just sit on a pile of money and give up prospects than actually use our last remaining financial advantage.

 

Hope Boston enjoyed those World Series, because we're the ones paying for the aftermath right now.

[jersey cubs fan]

Given the dearth of 3B options going forward, I wouldn't have minded seeing ARam back, but I can't fault Theo/Jed for not wanting to commit to him for three years, either. He's not exactly the most stable player either, as TT pointed out. And that doesn't figure to improve with age.

 

It sure sucked to see him have a nice year with Milwaukee, though.

 

I'm not sure what stability you are looking for but he was the most stable producer for the Cubs for nearly a decade. There's a lot less stable guys out there than Aramis.

[Guest]

Given the dearth of 3B options going forward, I wouldn't have minded seeing ARam back, but I can't fault Theo/Jed for not wanting to commit to him for three years, either. He's not exactly the most stable player either, as TT pointed out. And that doesn't figure to improve with age.

 

It sure sucked to see him have a nice year with Milwaukee, though.

 

I'm not sure what stability you are looking for but he was the most stable producer for the Cubs for nearly a decade. There's a lot less stable guys out there than Aramis.

 

In 2009-2010, Ramirez missed nearly 120 games and was barely above replacement in 500 PAs in 2010.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

[completely unfair tangent that ignores the context]

Yeah, we wouldn't want to waste our 3b on a guy coming off terrible seasons and with known injury problems.

[/tangent]

[Guest]

[completely unfair tangent that ignores the context]

Yeah, we wouldn't want to waste our 3b on a guy coming off terrible seasons and with known injury problems.

[/tangent]

 

Trolling with a smart ass comment doesn't really work when you soften the blow like that.

[XZero771679666304]

Given the dearth of 3B options going forward, I wouldn't have minded seeing ARam back, but I can't fault Theo/Jed for not wanting to commit to him for three years, either. He's not exactly the most stable player either, as TT pointed out. And that doesn't figure to improve with age.

 

It sure sucked to see him have a nice year with Milwaukee, though.

 

I'm not sure what stability you are looking for but he was the most stable producer for the Cubs for nearly a decade. There's a lot less stable guys out there than Aramis.

 

He was great for quite a long time, but as TT pointed out, he's not far removed from 2.7 WAR over two years, is somewhat injury prone and isn't getting any younger. The fact was stable for 5-6 years primarily when he was in his 20s is immaterial when deciding what you would give him in his age 34-36 seasons, or at least it should be.

 

I'm not thrilled he was let go, but it's not as if it was some egregious mistake made with no logic behind it.

[cubweiser03]

Im glad this year is over. I spent more time reading box scores the next day than actually watching games this year.

[jersey cubs fan]

Given the dearth of 3B options going forward, I wouldn't have minded seeing ARam back, but I can't fault Theo/Jed for not wanting to commit to him for three years, either. He's not exactly the most stable player either, as TT pointed out. And that doesn't figure to improve with age.

 

It sure sucked to see him have a nice year with Milwaukee, though.

 

I'm not sure what stability you are looking for but he was the most stable producer for the Cubs for nearly a decade. There's a lot less stable guys out there than Aramis.

 

In 2009-2010, Ramirez missed nearly 120 games and was barely above replacement in 500 PAs in 2010.

 

yeah, we're all well aware.

 

In 2012 the Cubs spent about $7 on their roster and fielded garbage players all over the field. It wasn't much of a risk.

[biittner77]

I will gladly sit through another 2-3 years of sucking before I even start to get concerned about how many games we win.

 

And stupid point number 2. That's just dumb fandom right there. You'd gladly sit through 3 more years of sucking? That's absurd.

 

Show me a team in the playoffs who didn't have to suffer through 4 100 loss seasons before becoming good.

 

Kansas City. Just look at all them stars they developed by being bad all of those years.

[XZero771679666304]

Given the dearth of 3B options going forward, I wouldn't have minded seeing ARam back, but I can't fault Theo/Jed for not wanting to commit to him for three years, either. He's not exactly the most stable player either, as TT pointed out. And that doesn't figure to improve with age.

 

It sure sucked to see him have a nice year with Milwaukee, though.

 

I'm not sure what stability you are looking for but he was the most stable producer for the Cubs for nearly a decade. There's a lot less stable guys out there than Aramis.

 

In 2009-2010, Ramirez missed nearly 120 games and was barely above replacement in 500 PAs in 2010.

 

yeah, we're all well aware.

 

In 2012 the Cubs spent about $7 on their roster and fielded garbage players all over the field. It wasn't much of a risk.

 

Again, no one had any qualms about keeping him for 2012. The FO picked up their end of the option, and I think there was a decent chance he could have accepted it (and I wish he had). Giving him 3+ years was a different issue.

[bcl412]

Reading this thread just makes the 2012 tank-job more annoying.

[USSoccer]

TT, if our budget were a thing we were bumping up against, or if it came at the expensive of adding Darvish or Cespedes or whatever, that I can understand giving whatever you would have given Aramis for a better now + long term investment.

 

But, IIRC (and I am too lazy to look it up), I feel like he signed with Milwaukee after those other dominoes fell. We have a miniscule payroll; there would have been nothing wrong with letting your best player from 2004-2011 finish it out here. Especially if you want to go younger long term-having a couple veteran guys like Soriano and Ramirez isn't the worst thing ever.

 

But, if the overall plan wasn't to contend this year or next, doesn't that sort of eliminate the injury risk there? It's not as if it's a thing like, if he gets hurt, we're in a bind because we're trying to win and we've already spent $110m on the team. You could still have brought in Stewart and let him back Ramirez up.

 

Of course, maybe he picks up his side of the option if Brenly + media doesn't spend 3 months last year torching him for stupid reasons, with the front office doing nothing to stop it.

 

It's water under the bridge now, but I thought the move sucked then and think it sucks now, because it's hard for me to shake the feeling that our management team decided to go all-in on a video game rebuild just to see if they could pull it off.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I will gladly sit through another 2-3 years of sucking before I even start to get concerned about how many games we win.

 

And stupid point number 2. That's just dumb fandom right there. You'd gladly sit through 3 more years of sucking? That's absurd.

 

Show me a team in the playoffs who didn't have to suffer through 4 100 loss seasons before becoming good.

 

Not sure what you're going for here...... Three of the playoff teams (NY Yankees, San Francisco, & Cincinnati) have never had 4 100 Loss seasons. Of the remaining 7 teams, only Washington & Detroit have had a 100 loss season within the last decade. Hell, the Cardinals haven't lost 100 games since 1908 !!!

 

100 Loss Seasons
Team                    #    Last   Strk

Oakland A's             17    1979     3
Atlanta Braves          14    1988     4
Philadelphia Phillies   14    1961     5
Baltimore Orioles       10    1988     3
Pittsburgh Pirates       8    2010     3
Boston Red Sox           7    1965     3
Detroit Tigers           6    2003     2
New York Mets            6    1993     4
Minnesota Twins          6    1982     1
Texas Rangers            6    1973     4
Seattle Mariners         5    2010     1
San Diego Padres         5    1993     2
Cleveland Indians        5    1991     1
Washington Nationals     4    2009     2
Kansas City Royals       4    2006     3
St. Louis Cardinals      4    1908     2
Chicago Cubs             3    2012     1
Tampa Bay Devilrays      3    2006     2
Toronto Blue Jays        3    1979     3
Chicago White Sox        3    1948     1
Houston Astros           2    2012     2
New York Yankees         2    1912     1
Los Angeles Dodgers      2    1908     1
Arizona Diamondbacks     1    2004     1
Milwaukee Brewers        1    2002     1
Florida Marlins          1    1998     1
San Francisco Giants     1    1985     1
Cincinnati Reds          1    1982     1
Colorado Rockies         0    ----     0
Anaheim Angels           0    ----     0

[Guest]

Don't think SSR was being serious, Fred. :wink:

[pccubfan]

Theo said yesterday he sees FA as the least valuable way to improve the team. My guess all along has been the bulk of big moves we make winds up being thru trades. I wish like hell we had gotten Cespedes. At this point, I wish we had gotten Puig. I'm still not going to be sold on Darvish until he does it a 2nd season though.

 

Isn't the key word in his statement valuable or value? You aren't going to find too many values when signing a free agent, especially one of the top free agents in the class. He's obviously going to participate in free agency as he did so last year. I think the idea is to participate by obtaining the best values available relative to the free market as a whole.

[CubInOK]

I will gladly sit through another 2-3 years of sucking before I even start to get concerned about how many games we win.

 

And stupid point number 2. That's just dumb fandom right there. You'd gladly sit through 3 more years of sucking? That's absurd.

 

Show me a team in the playoffs who didn't have to suffer through 4 100 loss seasons before becoming good.

 

Not sure what you're going for here...... Three of the playoff teams (NY Yankees, San Francisco, & Cincinnati) have never had 4 100 Loss seasons. Of the remaining 7 teams, only Washington & Detroit have had a 100 loss season within the last decade. Hell, the Cardinals haven't lost 100 games since 1908 !!!

So that's the secret...

 

Also, the answer to SSR's facetious post is the Atlanta Braves.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Don't think SSR was being serious, Fred. :wink:

 

Well then why the [expletive] isn't he using his green font ???

[jersey cubs fan]

Theo said yesterday he sees FA as the least valuable way to improve the team. My guess all along has been the bulk of big moves we make winds up being thru trades. I wish like hell we had gotten Cespedes. At this point, I wish we had gotten Puig. I'm still not going to be sold on Darvish until he does it a 2nd season though.

 

Isn't the key word in his statement valuable or value? You aren't going to find too many values when signing a free agent, especially one of the top free agents in the class. He's obviously going to participate in free agency as he did so last year. I think the idea is to participate by obtaining the best values available relative to the free market as a whole.

 

Value is the key word but it shouldn't be. The goal is not to make the most cost-efficient roster. It is to create the most productive roster you can, given your budget. I hate that it looks like Theo is more interested in proving he can do it on the cheap than that he can do it at all.

[Guest]

TT, if our budget were a thing we were bumping up against, or if it came at the expensive of adding Darvish or Cespedes or whatever, that I can understand giving whatever you would have given Aramis for a better now + long term investment.

 

But, IIRC (and I am too lazy to look it up), I feel like he signed with Milwaukee after those other dominoes fell. We have a miniscule payroll; there would have been nothing wrong with letting your best player from 2004-2011 finish it out here. Especially if you want to go younger long term-having a couple veteran guys like Soriano and Ramirez isn't the worst thing ever.

 

But, if the overall plan wasn't to contend this year or next, doesn't that sort of eliminate the injury risk there? It's not as if it's a thing like, if he gets hurt, we're in a bind because we're trying to win and we've already spent $110m on the team. You could still have brought in Stewart and let him back Ramirez up.

 

Of course, maybe he picks up his side of the option if Brenly + media doesn't spend 3 months last year torching him for stupid reasons, with the front office doing nothing to stop it.

 

It's water under the bridge now, but I thought the move sucked then and think it sucks now, because it's hard for me to shake the feeling that our management team decided to go all-in on a video game rebuild just to see if they could pull it off.

 

It's not that the money would be prohibitive, unless the payroll ceiling for this team got substantially lowered it'd be almost impossible to bump against that ceiling during Ramirez's contract. It was that it's a commitment without a whole lot of purpose. Ramirez's expected output over a 3 year deal is going to be frontloaded given his age, injury history, body type, etc. He didn't look to be at all likely to turn in a huge season at any point in that contract, but considering his recent past he couldn't be consistently counted on for steady performance either. Given that 2012 contention would have required a truly prohibitive amount of spending and inflexibility, it doesn't really make sense to spend to lock down Ramirez at age 35 and 36 when he's unlikely to give you great production but very easily could be below average or near replacement level.

[SouthSideRyan]

Theo said yesterday he sees FA as the least valuable way to improve the team. My guess all along has been the bulk of big moves we make winds up being thru trades. I wish like hell we had gotten Cespedes. At this point, I wish we had gotten Puig. I'm still not going to be sold on Darvish until he does it a 2nd season though.

 

Isn't the key word in his statement valuable or value? You aren't going to find too many values when signing a free agent, especially one of the top free agents in the class. He's obviously going to participate in free agency as he did so last year. I think the idea is to participate by obtaining the best values available relative to the free market as a whole.

 

That's a great way to have your team peak at 74 wins.

[SouthSideRyan]

Theo said yesterday he sees FA as the least valuable way to improve the team. My guess all along has been the bulk of big moves we make winds up being thru trades. I wish like hell we had gotten Cespedes. At this point, I wish we had gotten Puig. I'm still not going to be sold on Darvish until he does it a 2nd season though.

 

Isn't the key word in his statement valuable or value? You aren't going to find too many values when signing a free agent, especially one of the top free agents in the class. He's obviously going to participate in free agency as he did so last year. I think the idea is to participate by obtaining the best values available relative to the free market as a whole.

 

Value is the key word but it shouldn't be. The goal is not to make the most cost-efficient roster. It is to create the most productive roster you can, given your budget. I hate that it looks like Theo is more interested in proving he can do it on the cheap than that he can do it at all.

 

Remember how people were worried that Friedman would come here and do this exact thing?

[Warpticon]

[completely unfair tangent that ignores the context]

Yeah, we wouldn't want to waste our 3b on a guy coming off terrible seasons and with known injury problems.

[/tangent]

 

Trolling with a smart ass comment doesn't really work when you soften the blow like that.

 

Or when the comparison is trash considering the enormous difference in age and money.

[Guest]

[completely unfair tangent that ignores the context]

Yeah, we wouldn't want to waste our 3b on a guy coming off terrible seasons and with known injury problems.

[/tangent]

 

Trolling with a smart ass comment doesn't really work when you soften the blow like that.

 

Or when the comparison is trash considering the enormous difference in age and money.

 

He acknowledges that in his post. That's the softening of the blow I'm referring to. Trolling is supposed to piss people off, not make sense.