Source: Castro Agrees to 7/60M Extension (Option Year: 16M)

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

I think everyone would agree with that. But that is not the argument that is being made.

 

Brenly is pretty low on the list of media racists; he's the least of the problems. His was the question I was trying to answer. However, I suppose the flipside is that he's the one, more than the others, who yields the most influence as the color guy.

 

Kaplan and Rozner are the worst; Rogers is just an idiot, Sullivan is a lazy, cynical writer.

 

Miles is by far the most objective of the bunch.

 

I have no right to do this since it's an opinion-based conversation, but I'm going to eliminate Bob as a racist in the context that we are talking about today.

[XZero771679666304]

 

I think everyone would agree with that. But that is not the argument that is being made.

 

Brenly is pretty low on the list of media racists; he's the least of the problems. His was the question I was trying to answer. However, I suppose the flipside is that he's the one, more than the others, who yields the most influence as the color guy.

 

Kaplan and Rozner are the worst; they might as well be Father Coughlin clones, and Rozner just hangs on to vendettas. Rogers is just an idiot, Sullivan is a lazy, cynical writer.

 

Miles is by far the most objective of the bunch.

 

 

I don't think Brenly is that bad.

 

Kaplan and Rozner are right in your face with it, and there's no misinterpretation required.

[CUBZ99]

 

I think everyone would agree with that. But that is not the argument that is being made.

 

Brenly is pretty low on the list of media racists; he's the least of the problems. His was the question I was trying to answer. However, I suppose the flipside is that he's the one, more than the others, who yields the most influence as the color guy.

 

Kaplan and Rozner are the worst; they might as well be Father Coughlin clones, and Rozner just hangs on to vendettas. Rogers is just an idiot, Sullivan is a lazy, cynical writer.

 

Miles is by far the most objective of the bunch.

 

No argument here with any of that. I just hate to focus on a few bad apples and generalize or make it into more than it is.

[Sammy Sofa]

People aren't stacking up Brenly, Rozner and Kaplan as if they're the Three Stooges of baseball racism and on equal footing. Like I said, this is something deeply ingrained and it's present across both society and the media to various degrees, hence why cliches like "lazy" non-white players are something you see or hear everywhere and not just in Chicago. It's pretty damn far from "a few bad apples;" it's basically a deeply rooted part of our society. Edited August 14, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[USSoccer]

People aren't stacking up Brenly, Rozner and Kaplan as if they're the Three Stooges of baseball racism and on equal footing. Like I said, this is something deeply ingrained and it's present across both society and the media to various degrees, hence why cliches like "lazy" non-white players are something you everywhere and not just in Chicago. It's pretty damn far from "a few bad apples;" it's basically a deeply rooted part of our society.

 

Yep, this.

[Tracer Bullet]

People aren't stacking up Brenly, Rozner and Kaplan as if they're the Three Stooges of baseball racism and on equal footing. Like I said, this is something deeply ingrained and it's present across both society and the media to various degrees, hence why cliches like "lazy" non-white players are something you everywhere and not just in Chicago. It's pretty damn far from "a few bad apples;" it's basically a deeply rooted part of our society.

 

Yep, this.

 

Right. I was responding directly to the accusation that if you liked Bob, you'd see his comments one way and if you didn't like him, you'd see his comments as racism. I generally like him, but some of his comments are unsettling to me. If I thought Bob was racist, I'd hate him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

How much of the racism, be it from fans or media is actually due to expectations more so than race? Sure, there will be a few racist meatballs in the bleachers, but they're far from a fair representation of the general fan base. While I don't necessarily agree with the boos or criticism, I simply disagree that it's race related

 

Lets look at paleyers who are the most heavily booes and criticized over recent years:

 

High paid free agents who were either in prolonged slumps and/or gave off the impression that they werent trying:

 

Aramis Ramirez, Alfonso Soriano, Milton Bradley, and Carlos Zambrano.The last white free agent that came in as a "savior" was Todd Hundley, who flopped and fans wasted no time booing him out of town. Other than that, they were all secondary free agents who never really gave a reason to boo, such as Dempster, Lilly, and DeRosa. Jeromy Burnitz? He was what he was. By the time he got here, there was no question that his best days were behind him, and the monster season in Colorado wasn't going to fool many people. When Latroy Hawkins was blowing every other save, was he really booed any more than Kevin Gregg when he did the same?

 

Also, top prospects who were heavily hyped, and struggled or went through prolonged slumps:

 

Corey Patterson, Felix Pie, and now Starlin Castro.There really havn't been any recent white players that were viewed as saviors, or came up overly hyped in recent years. Of course there was Mark Prior, but his issues were injury related and he was never awful when on the mound. Even if fans wanted, they wouldn't have booed him from the bench. Samrdzjia sure heard his share of boos when he was horrid. Ryan Theriot? he was never viewed as much of anything. He just came up and was "gritty" and seemed to give it his all, getting a lot of little slap hits.There were plenty of white prospects who busted, but they never made it to the big leagues, at least as Cubs. If Vitters and Jackson continue to have a combined OPS in the low .600s, they may start hearing some boos, especially if it's next year and the games matter. But if, say, Dave Sappelt were to come up as a 4th OF and wasn't very good, would he get booed? Doubtful. For the same reason that Reed Johnson and Jeff Baker never heard many boos. Because nobody really cared.

[Sammy Sofa]

Here comes this guy talking about boos, even though most of the discussion has been about the media, because reading isn't cool.

[Theo]

lol

[jersey cubs fan]

 

I think everyone would agree with that. But that is not the argument that is being made.

 

Brenly is pretty low on the list of media racists; he's the least of the problems. His was the question I was trying to answer. However, I suppose the flipside is that he's the one, more than the others, who yields the most influence as the color guy.

 

Kaplan and Rozner are the worst; Rogers is just an idiot, Sullivan is a lazy, cynical writer.

 

Miles is by far the most objective of the bunch.

 

I have no right to do this since it's an opinion-based conversation, but I'm going to eliminate Bob as a racist in the context that we are talking about today.

 

I'm going to put him put him back on the list based on his obsession with Blazing Saddles, which is a movie that middle aged white men love just so they can hear the word [expletive] stated over and over and over and over.

[USSoccer]

The files are INSIDE the computer?

[Guest]

 

I think everyone would agree with that. But that is not the argument that is being made.

 

Brenly is pretty low on the list of media racists; he's the least of the problems. His was the question I was trying to answer. However, I suppose the flipside is that he's the one, more than the others, who yields the most influence as the color guy.

 

Kaplan and Rozner are the worst; Rogers is just an idiot, Sullivan is a lazy, cynical writer.

 

Miles is by far the most objective of the bunch.

 

I have no right to do this since it's an opinion-based conversation, but I'm going to eliminate Bob as a racist in the context that we are talking about today.

 

I'm going to put him put him back on the list based on his obsession with Blazing Saddles, which is a movie that middle aged white men love just so they can hear the word [expletive] stated over and over and over and over.

 

 

Chase HEADley

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

I think everyone would agree with that. But that is not the argument that is being made.

 

Brenly is pretty low on the list of media racists; he's the least of the problems. His was the question I was trying to answer. However, I suppose the flipside is that he's the one, more than the others, who yields the most influence as the color guy.

 

Kaplan and Rozner are the worst; Rogers is just an idiot, Sullivan is a lazy, cynical writer.

 

Miles is by far the most objective of the bunch.

 

I have no right to do this since it's an opinion-based conversation, but I'm going to eliminate Bob as a racist in the context that we are talking about today.

 

I'm going to put him put him back on the list based on his obsession with Blazing Saddles, which is a movie that middle aged white men love just so they can hear the word [expletive] stated over and over and over and over.

 

:lol:

 

You win this round.

[Cubbie Swagger]

how exactly do you "build around" a "franchise player"? why would you build your team differently based on how good one guy was?

Are you kidding me? When Albert Pujols first got to the big leagues and put up a couple great seasons, the Cardinals decided to build around him. That means, they say to themself, "okay, this guy is a [expletive] stud and he's really young too, so we should keep him right in the middle of our offense for a long time to come and pay him lots of money". You build the rest of your team KNOWING that at least one position on the field and spot in your lineup is taken. Is this too complicated or am I too high? Or both?

 

I suppose the issue here is just that my perception of the term "franchise player" is skewed. I'm using the term more a if it were synonymous with "superstar" or something. In hindsight, I suppose the fact that he's a shortstop makes him much more easy to tag as a "franchise player". I'm aware that a SS who OPS's .800-.850, plays D and steals bases is a hell of a player. Those are Derek Jeter numbers. What I'm saying is that if he only OPS's .750 or something, and his D is average, then he's fairly expendable. Not necessarily the face of our team for the next decade.

 

really, this is the stuff people say when they have no real arguments to explain why they dislike a player/person.

I actually like Castro quite a bit. So... so much for that.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Cubbie Swagger

[SouthSideRyan]

You build the rest of your team KNOWING that at least one position on the field and spot in your lineup is taken. Is this too complicated or am I too high? Or both?

 

Something that would be [expletive] impossible to do with Starlin Castro. FFS

[jersey cubs fan]

then he's fairly expendable.

 

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[SouthSideRyan]

I suppose my perception of a franchise player is just a bit more strict than everyone else. In hindsight, I suppose the fact that he's a shortstop makes him much more easy to tag as a "franchise player". I'm aware that a SS who OPS's .800-.850, plays D and steals bases is a hell of a player. Those are Derek Jeter numbers. What I'm saying is that if he only OPS's .750 or something, and his D is average, then he's fairly expendable. Not necessarily the face of our team for the next decade.

 

Those were Derek Jeter #s in a totally different run environment. And your concern with Castro is that he doesn't improve upon his aggregate #s from ages 20-22?

[Cubbie Swagger]

then he's fairly expendable.

 

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Probably not. I meant that we could do without him if it made business sense.

[Sammy Sofa]

Oh man, yeah, it's going to be really tough for Castro to reach the dizzying heights of Derek Jeter-dom.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Oh man, yeah, it's going to be really tough for Castro to reach the dizzying heights of Derek Jeter-dom.

If Castro puts up a career like Jeter for less money, I'll be happy with that. He didn't seem to hurt the Yankees much.

[Cubbie Swagger]

I suppose my perception of a franchise player is just a bit more strict than everyone else. In hindsight, I suppose the fact that he's a shortstop makes him much more easy to tag as a "franchise player". I'm aware that a SS who OPS's .800-.850, plays D and steals bases is a hell of a player. Those are Derek Jeter numbers. What I'm saying is that if he only OPS's .750 or something, and his D is average, then he's fairly expendable. Not necessarily the face of our team for the next decade.

 

Those were Derek Jeter #s in a totally different run environment. And your concern with Castro is that he doesn't improve upon his aggregate #s from ages 20-22?

I don't really have any concerns with Castro. All I'm saying is that he's overrated by Cubs fans. We need to find WAY better hitters than Castro if we want to win anything this decade.

[Sammy Sofa]

Oh man, yeah, it's going to be really tough for Castro to reach the dizzying heights of Derek Jeter-dom.

If Castro puts up a career like Jeter for less money, I'll be happy with that. He didn't seem to hurt the Yankees much.

 

Nobody said he "hurt" the Yankees(?); I'm just amused that you present Jeter as being this gold standard, like Castro will be lucky to match or exceed his production.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't really have any concerns with Castro. All I'm saying is that he's overrated by Cubs fans. We need to find WAY better hitters than Castro if we want to win anything this decade.

 

This doesn't make any sense. Who is saying he has to be the best hitter on the team? Who thinks they need or can find "WAY better hitters" than Castro unless they think this year will be his typical production?

[Cubbie Swagger]

Dude are you seriously going to break down every letter that I type? Or maybe even every pixel of every letter? I never said that anyone said any of that [expletive]. Quit putting words in my mouth.

[davell]

It is much, much, much more valuable to have an .800 OPS hitting SS than an .850 OPS hitting 1B and they should be paid accordingly. Without looking at numbers, my guess is the 1B is probably .050 OPS better than normal, league average production, while the SS is probably .150 OPS better.

 

And yes, I definitely see Castro EASILY becoming an .800 OPS fixture.