Random Baseball Musings

[Andy]

Charlotte could definitely be a viable candidate. Market them as a Carolina's team like they do with the Panthers.

This could definitely work. I lived in SC for 6 years (hence the Panthers' fandom) and the whole area was a Braves area by default. I bet a Carolina team would quickly gain a foothold.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think that's for 2013. They moved into a new stadium for 2014. This link has them at 9700 last year and 3800 in 2013:

 

http://ballparkdigest.com/201409057676/attendance/news/2014-affiliated-attendance-by-average

That is correct. I've had a hard time finding good seats every time I've tried to get tickets.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?y=2015&sid=milb&t=l_att&lid=117

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It also helps that the new ballpark is right uptown whereas the old one was quite a bit further out.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is offense up this year?

 

Just looking at the individual statistics, it boggles my mind that there two first baseman (Goldschmidt and Cabrera) having better seasons offensively than Rizzo, who in my mind has been an absolute monster.

 

2015 so far:

 

1.000+ OPS: 4 (Harper, Goldschmidt, Cabrera, Rizzo)

.900-1.000 OPS: 14

.800-.899 OPS: 39

Overall above .800: 57

 

2014:

 

1.000+ OPS: 0

.900-1.000 OPS: 8

.800-.899 OPS: 27

Overall above .800: 35

 

Certainly looks like it from the top, but not sure if the offensive improvement is top heavy or is everyone's offense up.

 

Last year was a 22 year low in OPS at .700 Current leauge OPS is .711, which would rank 2nd to last for wild card era.

[Guest]

Is offense up this year?

 

Just looking at the individual statistics, it boggles my mind that there two first baseman (Goldschmidt and Cabrera) having better seasons offensively than Rizzo, who in my mind has been an absolute monster.

 

2015 so far:

 

1.000+ OPS: 4 (Harper, Goldschmidt, Cabrera, Rizzo)

.900-1.000 OPS: 14

.800-.899 OPS: 39

Overall above .800: 57

 

2014:

 

1.000+ OPS: 0

.900-1.000 OPS: 8

.800-.899 OPS: 27

Overall above .800: 35

 

Certainly looks like it from the top, but not sure if the offensive improvement is top heavy or is everyone's offense up.

Results will have a wider distribution earlier in the year. Instead of looking at the tails, you have to look at the means & std deviations when comparing vastly different sample sizes like that.

[imb]

http://i.imgur.com/EGfRsJF.jpg

[Clem Fandango]

i think sean is right, though. from what i understand, not only is st pete awful but their stadium about as [expletive] as there is (at the very least in terms of ambiance) and very hard to get to.

 

First off, St. Pete as a whole isn't great, but the area Tropicana Field is near actualy has a nice nightlife/indie vibe to it. There's a lot of local restaurants, cigar bars, music venues, art galleries, etc. And it's not a very far drive form the waterfront, including the Salvador Dali museum (which is awesome as [expletive]). It has it's share of homeless folks, and the surrounding areas away from the Trop have some shady neighborhoods, but a lot of major cities are like that (Turner Field, for one). And as far as it being difficult to get to, that's false. It's literally right off the interstate. You take an exit, make your first left, and then the parking lot to the stadium will be on your left. It's like two turns off the interstate.

 

The problem with the Rays boils down to two things:

 

1) Tropicana Field is a [expletive] joke. A new stadium would go a long way for them. Even if they tore down the Trop and put up a new one there, it would do better. St. Pete is not too far from Tampa, it's actually a good middle ground between Tampa and it's outer suburbs (Bradenton, Sarasota, etc). THe distance to get to St. Pete from Bradenton is roughly the same distance to get to it from Tampa. The location is not a big deal, it's the stadium. It's an artifact that was built long before it was repurposed as a baseball stadium, and it's purpose was a multipurpose arena for various events. It's not a baseball stadium, it's a gigantic civic center that was built for monster truck rallies, musical performances, etc. The Rays need a real stadium.

 

2) Florida fans are the [expletive] worst. They are fairweather as [expletive]. I grew up there so I've got a lot of friends who still live in Florida. They were going crazy once Tampa made it to the semi finals of the Stanley Cup. I didn't even know they were in the playoffs before that because NO ONE GIVES A [expletive] ABOUT FLORIDA SPORTS TEAMS UNTIL THEY MAKE IT. And then when they finally do they all come out of the woodwork like "I've loved this team since they got here!". No, they didn't, they likely forgot they existed before the season started. No one gave a [expletive] about the Bucs before they got a new stadium and uniforms. Then they did, they got better, and started selling out. But like you guys are saying they're not so good and attendance has been down. Florida fans don't give a [expletive] until their team is good because they didn't grow up Florida fans. Most of them are transplants from the north, or they grew up in a time when there were no Florida teams. That's why most of my childhood friends are Braves fans. Seriously, Florida fans are the worst and don't deserve nice things. [expletive] them.

[Andy]

http://i.imgur.com/EGfRsJF.jpg

What the hell is he doing there? Is it like a lemonade stand, where for 50 cents he'll tell you what really happened?

[seanimal]

First off, St. Pete as a whole isn't great, but the area Tropicana Field is near actualy has a nice nightlife/indie vibe to it. There's a lot of local restaurants, cigar bars, music venues, art galleries, etc. And it's not a very far drive form the waterfront, including the Salvador Dali museum (which is awesome as [expletive]). It has it's share of homeless folks, and the surrounding areas away from the Trop have some shady neighborhoods, but a lot of major cities are like that (Turner Field, for one). And as far as it being difficult to get to, that's false. It's literally right off the interstate. You take an exit, make your first left, and then the parking lot to the stadium will be on your left. It's like two turns off the interstate.

 

being close to the interstate doesn't necessarily make it easy or convenient for the large majority of the population to get to. i agree that the main problem is that the stadium is awful, but i think you still have issues drawing at that location even with a super-family friendly, modern ballpark

[Clem Fandango]

First off, St. Pete as a whole isn't great, but the area Tropicana Field is near actualy has a nice nightlife/indie vibe to it. There's a lot of local restaurants, cigar bars, music venues, art galleries, etc. And it's not a very far drive form the waterfront, including the Salvador Dali museum (which is awesome as [expletive]). It has it's share of homeless folks, and the surrounding areas away from the Trop have some shady neighborhoods, but a lot of major cities are like that (Turner Field, for one). And as far as it being difficult to get to, that's false. It's literally right off the interstate. You take an exit, make your first left, and then the parking lot to the stadium will be on your left. It's like two turns off the interstate.

 

being close to the interstate doesn't necessarily make it easy or convenient for the large majority of the population to get to. i agree that the main problem is that the stadium is awful, but i think you still have issues drawing at that location even with a super-family friendly, modern ballpark

 

I don't know how you could make stadium access any easier short of having an exit go directly into a parking lot. If Tampa residents don't like its location, it's only because it's not actually in Tampa, which is just sour grapes and laziness and goes back to the Florida fan mentality. I've actually heard a Rays fan complain that if they call themselves the Tampa Bay Rays, they should play in Tampa. I hate that argument, because Tropicana Field is literally like 10 blocks away from Tampa Bay. Tampa isn't even on Tampa Bay, it's on Hillsborough Bay.

 

While I tend to agree having a stadium in Tampa would do better for attendance solely because of a larger concentrated population in the area, I think its current location is only a burden on Tampa residents because they're shitty fans about it. If you truly love a team, you won't let a super easy 30 minute drive to the stadium get in your way of supporting them.

[jersey cubs fan]

First off, St. Pete as a whole isn't great, but the area Tropicana Field is near actualy has a nice nightlife/indie vibe to it. There's a lot of local restaurants, cigar bars, music venues, art galleries, etc. And it's not a very far drive form the waterfront, including the Salvador Dali museum (which is awesome as [expletive]). It has it's share of homeless folks, and the surrounding areas away from the Trop have some shady neighborhoods, but a lot of major cities are like that (Turner Field, for one). And as far as it being difficult to get to, that's false. It's literally right off the interstate. You take an exit, make your first left, and then the parking lot to the stadium will be on your left. It's like two turns off the interstate.

 

being close to the interstate doesn't necessarily make it easy or convenient for the large majority of the population to get to. i agree that the main problem is that the stadium is awful, but i think you still have issues drawing at that location even with a super-family friendly, modern ballpark

 

Yeah, it's close to an interstate that relatively few people have a reason to be on in the first place. Raymond James is pretty close to the interstate as well but it's more centralized.

[UMFan83]

First off, St. Pete as a whole isn't great, but the area Tropicana Field is near actualy has a nice nightlife/indie vibe to it. There's a lot of local restaurants, cigar bars, music venues, art galleries, etc. And it's not a very far drive form the waterfront, including the Salvador Dali museum (which is awesome as [expletive]). It has it's share of homeless folks, and the surrounding areas away from the Trop have some shady neighborhoods, but a lot of major cities are like that (Turner Field, for one). And as far as it being difficult to get to, that's false. It's literally right off the interstate. You take an exit, make your first left, and then the parking lot to the stadium will be on your left. It's like two turns off the interstate.

 

being close to the interstate doesn't necessarily make it easy or convenient for the large majority of the population to get to. i agree that the main problem is that the stadium is awful, but i think you still have issues drawing at that location even with a super-family friendly, modern ballpark

 

Yeah, it's close to an interstate that relatively few people have a reason to be on in the first place. Raymond James is pretty close to the interstate as well but it's more centralized.

 

Isn't part of the issue that there are only 1-2 bridges across the bay for those in the much larger Tampa to get to St. Pete for a ballgame?

[Guest]

First off, St. Pete as a whole isn't great, but the area Tropicana Field is near actualy has a nice nightlife/indie vibe to it. There's a lot of local restaurants, cigar bars, music venues, art galleries, etc. And it's not a very far drive form the waterfront, including the Salvador Dali museum (which is awesome as [expletive]). It has it's share of homeless folks, and the surrounding areas away from the Trop have some shady neighborhoods, but a lot of major cities are like that (Turner Field, for one). And as far as it being difficult to get to, that's false. It's literally right off the interstate. You take an exit, make your first left, and then the parking lot to the stadium will be on your left. It's like two turns off the interstate.

 

being close to the interstate doesn't necessarily make it easy or convenient for the large majority of the population to get to. i agree that the main problem is that the stadium is awful, but i think you still have issues drawing at that location even with a super-family friendly, modern ballpark

 

Yeah, it's close to an interstate that relatively few people have a reason to be on in the first place. Raymond James is pretty close to the interstate as well but it's more centralized.

 

Isn't part of the issue that there are only 1-2 bridges across the bay for those in the much larger Tampa to get to St. Pete for a ballgame?

Tampa is larger than St Pete, but there are other cities on the other side of the bay that even out that population distribution.

[OleMissCub]

http://i.imgur.com/EGfRsJF.jpg

What the hell is he doing there? Is it like a lemonade stand, where for 50 cents he'll tell you what really happened?

 

lol, bravo

[jersey cubs fan]

Tampa is larger than St Pete, but there are other cities on the other side of the bay that even out that population distribution.

Even out?

 

Isn't Hillsborough County (entirely on Tampa side) significantly larger than Pinellas, and isn't a large portion of Pinellas essentially as close or closer to Tampa than St. Pete?

 

Bradenton and Sarasota are closer to St. Pete (but not actually close) and they are offset by Lakeland's proximity to Tampa.

 

The location absolutely matters in this situation even if nothing in Florida is convenient to get to.

[NonProfitCow]

Caught a Rays-A's game last month while I was on vacation and it was nearly depressing. Paid 10 bucks for a ticket, and sat in the front row down the 3B line. The Rays were in first at the time, it was the Friday night of Memorial Day weekend, Archer vs Kazmir on the mound, and there were 12 thousand people.

[seanimal]

First off, St. Pete as a whole isn't great, but the area Tropicana Field is near actualy has a nice nightlife/indie vibe to it. There's a lot of local restaurants, cigar bars, music venues, art galleries, etc. And it's not a very far drive form the waterfront, including the Salvador Dali museum (which is awesome as [expletive]). It has it's share of homeless folks, and the surrounding areas away from the Trop have some shady neighborhoods, but a lot of major cities are like that (Turner Field, for one). And as far as it being difficult to get to, that's false. It's literally right off the interstate. You take an exit, make your first left, and then the parking lot to the stadium will be on your left. It's like two turns off the interstate.

 

being close to the interstate doesn't necessarily make it easy or convenient for the large majority of the population to get to. i agree that the main problem is that the stadium is awful, but i think you still have issues drawing at that location even with a super-family friendly, modern ballpark

 

I don't know how you could make stadium access any easier short of having an exit go directly into a parking lot. If Tampa residents don't like its location, it's only because it's not actually in Tampa, which is just sour grapes and laziness and goes back to the Florida fan mentality. I've actually heard a Rays fan complain that if they call themselves the Tampa Bay Rays, they should play in Tampa. I hate that argument, because Tropicana Field is literally like 10 blocks away from Tampa Bay. Tampa isn't even on Tampa Bay, it's on Hillsborough Bay.

 

While I tend to agree having a stadium in Tampa would do better for attendance solely because of a larger concentrated population in the area, I think its current location is only a burden on Tampa residents because they're [expletive] fans about it. If you truly love a team, you won't let a super easy 30 minute drive to the stadium get in your way of supporting them.

 

it's a super easy 30 minute drive with no one else on the road, most definitely not during rush hour from downtown and certainly not from the areas with the greatest population density. the point of the team being in tampa is that it's central to the entire metro, rather than at one extreme. this is particularly important when you consider that the population of the area has grown remarkably since the rays came into the league, yet the attendance numbers don't reflect this influx of new potential customers. one of the main reasons is because the growth has occured in areas like brandon and new tampa/pebble creek, which are close to an hour's drive from tropicana w/no traffic

 

i'm not in the business of defending any floridians, ever. believe me. but to argue that the stadium "couldn't be easier to get to" and that location isn't an issue is downright silly. it's a legitimate gripe

[jersey cubs fan]

If you truly love a team, you won't let a super easy 30 minute drive to the stadium get in your way of supporting them.

 

Nothing is a super easy 30 minute drive in that area.

[MWV]

Tampa isn't even on Tampa Bay, it's on Hillsborough Bay.

I'll be that jerk:

Tampa Bay is a large natural harbor and estuary connected to the Gulf of Mexico on the west central coast of Florida, comprising Hillsboro Bay, McKay Bay, Old Tampa Bay, Middle Tampa Bay, and Lower Tampa Bay.

[Guest]

I don't know how you could make stadium access any easier short of having an exit go directly into a parking lot. If Tampa residents don't like its location, it's only because it's not actually in Tampa, which is just sour grapes and laziness and goes back to the Florida fan mentality. I've actually heard a Rays fan complain that if they call themselves the Tampa Bay Rays, they should play in Tampa. I hate that argument, because Tropicana Field is literally like 10 blocks away from Tampa Bay. Tampa isn't even on Tampa Bay, it's on Hillsborough Bay.

 

While I tend to agree having a stadium in Tampa would do better for attendance solely because of a larger concentrated population in the area, I think its current location is only a burden on Tampa residents because they're [expletive] fans about it. If you truly love a team, you won't let a super easy 30 minute drive to the stadium get in your way of supporting them.

 

it's a super easy 30 minute drive with no one else on the road, most definitely not during rush hour from downtown and certainly not from the areas with the greatest population density. the point of the team being in tampa is that it's central to the entire metro, rather than at one extreme. this is particularly important when you consider that the population of the area has grown remarkably since the rays came into the league, yet the attendance numbers don't reflect this influx of new potential customers. one of the main reasons is because the growth has occured in areas like brandon and new tampa/pebble creek, which are close to an hour's drive from tropicana w/no traffic

 

i'm not in the business of defending any floridians, ever. believe me. but to argue that the stadium "couldn't be easier to get to" and that location isn't an issue is downright silly. it's a legitimate gripe

 

 

Just to reinforce this point, it's the same one Jonah Keri uses as the primary problem in The Extra 2%, that the park's location relative to where most of the people in the metro live combined with traffic make it a struggle for 7:00 start times. When you combine it with the worst ballpark in MLB and a transplant-heavy fanbase this is what you get.

[CubsInNC]

I actually think a Memphis team would do well (the Redbirds average 7200 fwiw). That area of the country is probably the most populated area in the US that is the farthest from an MLB stadium. A Memphis team would get most of Tennessee, Little Rock (less than 2 hours away) and most of Arkansas, north Louisiana, all of Mississippi, and possibly even New Orleans (same distance to Houston and Memphis from NOLA). Southerners are all about baseball too. For example, Ole Miss averages 10,000 for SEC baseball games. I think it would need to be an indoor park; Memphis being right on the river is miserably muggy in the summer.

 

I'm not sure that a Memphis team would do that well. There would have to be a significant investment in Memphis by the ownership to make the park a draw. The trend in baseball is for less suburban ballparks, and more ingrained in a cities downtown. I highly doubt you're going to get people from all over to travel to Memphis, proper, to go to a game. The city has done little successfully to cut back on it's crime problems. And if those people from a few hours away won't go, they likely won't change their allegiance from the current team.

 

Traffic is bad enough in Midtown, without a sports draw. There's nowhere near enough additional revenue available from increasing taxes to make that happen.

 

I'd advocate the only way you'd draw from all over is to put the team in one of the North Mississippi suburbs, but then you lose the biggest advantage Memphis has- no state income tax.

[CubInOK]

I'm sure the OKC taxpayers are willing to put another 30,000 seats at the ballpark here. The space is available around the park.

[mul21]

I actually think a Memphis team would do well (the Redbirds average 7200 fwiw). That area of the country is probably the most populated area in the US that is the farthest from an MLB stadium. A Memphis team would get most of Tennessee, Little Rock (less than 2 hours away) and most of Arkansas, north Louisiana, all of Mississippi, and possibly even New Orleans (same distance to Houston and Memphis from NOLA). Southerners are all about baseball too. For example, Ole Miss averages 10,000 for SEC baseball games. I think it would need to be an indoor park; Memphis being right on the river is miserably muggy in the summer.

 

I'm not sure that a Memphis team would do that well. There would have to be a significant investment in Memphis by the ownership to make the park a draw. The trend in baseball is for less suburban ballparks, and more ingrained in a cities downtown. I highly doubt you're going to get people from all over to travel to Memphis, proper, to go to a game. The city has done little successfully to cut back on it's crime problems. And if those people from a few hours away won't go, they likely won't change their allegiance from the current team.

 

Traffic is bad enough in Midtown, without a sports draw. There's nowhere near enough additional revenue available from increasing taxes to make that happen.

 

I'd advocate the only way you'd draw from all over is to put the team in one of the North Mississippi suburbs, but then you lose the biggest advantage Memphis has- no state income tax.

 

I have to agree with most of this having spent a decent amount of time in Memphis and having gone to the Redbirds park several times. The downtown area is minutes from some pretty awful neighborhoods and there would have to be a major revamping of downtown access to handle the traffic that would result from an MLB game crowd. On top of that, I think you'd be hard pressed to get fans who have been Cardinals fans for several generations to switch allegiances, which I honestly think would be the biggest hurdle. The reason the Redbirds draw as well as they do has a whole lot to do with the fanbase wanting to see guys they're going to see playing for their favorite MLB team soon.

[itisallpartoftheplan]

Watching Quick Pitch and they show highlights of the Yankees vs Phillies and Jimmy Fallon is in the front row wearing a Yanks hat. Did he really sell out on the Red Sox now that he hosts The Tonight Show??

[OleMissCub]

This interaction between Miggy and a fan is so awesome

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v191386183/detcle-miggy-gives-bat-and-gloves-to-young-fan