Dempster: Retain, or trade?

[erik316wttn]

Demp has a 1.02 ERA through 5 starts this season, and has been better so far than I think anyone ever expected. He's a FA after the year and seems to like it here. So, do you see if he'll sign a 2 or 3 year deal for a "hometown discount", or do you flip him in July for prospects?

[pitchcs]

The #2-7 ERA leaders in the NL are 26-4, #1 Ryan Dempster is 0-1.

[erik316wttn]

The #2-7 ERA leaders in the NL are 26-4, #1 Ryan Dempster is 0-1.

 

It's like the bats go completely to sleep when he's on the mound. I understand our offense sucks this year, but it sucks even harder with Demp on the mound, if such a thing is possible.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

That depends on how they want to spend in the offseason. I would not mind retaining him and I would not mind trading him if they got a good price on him.

[pitchcs]

I can go either way on Dempster. I think he would probably take a small Chicago discount and if we could have him back for $9 million a year or so I'd probably do it.

 

I'd also have no problem trading him this year if the return was semi-significant. Would probably need to get a top-ish pitching prospect and something else in return to be worth dealing him.

 

Would Dempster be a guy who could possibly be traded and then re-signed next season?

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Would Dempster be a guy who could possibly be traded and then re-signed next season?

 

Not something I would bank on.

[davell]

We kind of have a thread on this in Transactions as well, but it depends on whether he'll allow us to trade him firstly. Secondly, I'm wondering how much a 2 or 3 year deal for him runs? 2 for 20 or 3 for 30 sounds reasonable, I suppose, but he's really getting up there in age, so the 3rd year could be a sticking point for me anyway. I think you trade him, if possible, because unless Garza is on the market, he's as attractive to teams as anyone else, except maybe Peavy and Wandy.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That depends on how they want to spend in the offseason. I would not mind retaining him and I would not mind trading him if they got a good price on him.

 

 

http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/images/f/fc/NeutralPlanetEmbassy.jpg

 

 

I basically agree. I doubt anyone's going to give you a franchise-changing prospect for Dempster, and we're all full up on borderline guys.

 

If someone offers you something awesome, trade him if he lets you.

 

But if he keeps having a good year, I don't think offering him the minimum deal to get compensation (1 year/$12.5?) sounds all that crazybuckets.

[pitchcs]

Maybe not a "franchise changing" prospect, but why wouldn't someone give up something good for him if he continues to pitch well? He could be a legit high end #3 for a championship caliber team and those are pretty valuable. His K rate is good too which is a big plus for me come playoffs.

[bhogg]

I think a 5 year deal, back loaded, with a NTC and 2 year player option at $18 million per year is in order.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Maybe not a "franchise changing" prospect, but why wouldn't someone give up something good for him if he continues to pitch well? He could be a legit high end #3 for a championship caliber team and those are pretty valuable. His K rate is good too which is a big plus for me come playoffs.

 

I love Dempster, he's been awesome here, but it's tough to see a contender taking him on as a high end third starter. He doesn't throw hard enough that you can trust his K's to translate say...into the AL East or something. Plus there's his penchant to just crap out a 6 walk start for no reason. Maybe if Hoyer is a good salesman, but teams are going to do homework on him and I doubt he gets graded as a high end 3 on a championship caliber club.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think a 5 year deal, back loaded, with a NTC and 2 year player option at $18 million per year is in order.

 

That sounds like a terrible deal.

[Cubswin11]

Maybe not a "franchise changing" prospect, but why wouldn't someone give up something good for him if he continues to pitch well? He could be a legit high end #3 for a championship caliber team and those are pretty valuable. His K rate is good too which is a big plus for me come playoffs.

 

I love Dempster, he's been awesome here, but it's tough to see a contender taking him on as a high end third starter. He doesn't throw hard enough that you can trust his K's to translate say...into the AL East or something. Plus there's his penchant to just crap out a 6 walk start for no reason. Maybe if Hoyer is a good salesman, but teams are going to do homework on him and I doubt he gets graded as a high end 3 on a championship caliber club.

This can litearlly be said about any pitcher in baseball, even the best ones. Halladay got crapped on the other night and the CC's, Cain's, Verlander's, etc. of the world all have bad starts throughout the year with no apparent cause/reason.

 

Dempster would be considered at minimum "a high end 3rd starter" on almost all the teams that would be interested in trading for him at the deadline.

 

Yankees- He'd be their 2nd best starter

Red Sox- He'd be no worse than their number 3

Dodgers- He'd be their 2nd best starter

Blue Jays- No worse than their #3

Tigers- 2nd best starter

Rockies- Possibly would be their best starter, 2nd at worst

Mets- Same as the Rockies

[gocubs2118]

I think a 5 year deal, back loaded, with a NTC and 2 year player option at $18 million per year is in order.

 

That sounds like a terrible deal.

 

I'm pretty sure you missed the Jim Hendry like sarcasm.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

This can litearlly be said about any pitcher in baseball, even the best ones. Halladay got crapped on the other night and the CC's, Cain's, Verlander, etc. of the world all have bad starts throughout the year with no apparent cause/reason.

 

Yeah pretty sure Dempster has dropped more bombs than all those guys in his career. They're certainly capable of getting their butts kicked, but Dempster isn't anywhere near those guys and does not have their room for error stuff wise. It's just more likely to happen and HAS happened more often...

 

Dempster would be considered at minimum "a high end 3rd starter" on almost all the teams that would be interested in trading for him at the deadline.

 

Yankees- He'd be their 2nd best starter

Red Sox- He'd be no worse than their number 3

Dodgers- He'd be their 2nd best starter

Blue Jays- No worse than their #3

Tigers- 2nd best starter

Rockies- Possibly would be their best starter, 2nd at worst

Mets- Same as the Rockies

 

Yankees - How directly are you translating his numbers here? He's one of their jumble of "Not CC" starters and probably isn't all that much better or worse than Kuroda, Nova, or even newly unretired Pettite.

 

Red Sox - Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz when healthy and going are all better. Don't see his numbers seamlessly translating into the AL East. Think the Yankees and Red Sox lineup would eat him up...

 

Dodgers - Kershaw followed by Billingsley, so third.

 

Blue Jays - 3 almost solely because it's an extremely young rotation. Romero and Morrow are the vets and I'm not sure either is 28.

 

Tigers - Scherzer but sure, that's a team that needs SP, has a great park to pitch in, and he'd give them what they need (solid innings) in front of that lineup.

 

Mets aren't even a contender.

 

Rockies - Sure, but we're talking about a team who's best pitcher with experience is Guthriw. What happened to Chacin?

 

That's not so much "high end 3" as "hey this guy is a solid arm who is better than what we currently have" in pretty much all those cases.

 

Consider that Bumgarner and Cole Hamels are the third starters on a couple of contenders.

[sneakypower]

oh, we're doing this again...a guy who has the 17th-best WAR amongst pitchers over the past 5 years and is currently leading baseball in ERA is no better than a #4 starter

 

Clay Buchholz, lol

[SouthSideRyan]

oh, we're doing this again...a guy who has the 17th-best WAR amongst pitchers over the past 5 years and is currently leading baseball in ERA is no better than a #4 starter

 

Clay Buchholz, lol

 

There are only 5-10 #1 starters, 3-5 #2 starters, and 1-3 #3 starters. Ryan Dempster is actully the only #4 starter in baseball.

Edited May 9, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[BeerHere]

To me, it all depends on what you can get in return. If the prospects coming back and good, trade him. If not, keep him. I would definitely lean toward seeing what he would return though given the number of holes on the team and the current state of the farm system.

[C.C.]

Not sure why we create these threads when everyone of them "Depends on the trade".

[Clem Fandango]

Trade and sign. He'll understand.

[Backtobanks]

This seems to be the discussion for the 2012 Cubs. If you get enough for _________ (fill in the blank with Garza, Dempster, or Lahair) then trade him, if not retain/extend/keep him.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

oh, we're doing this again...a guy who has the 17th-best WAR amongst pitchers over the past 5 years and is currently leading baseball in ERA is no better than a #4 starter

 

Clay Buchholz, lol

 

WAR = be all, end all? Are they trading for his 5 years?

 

You realize that according to bWAR he hasn't been a 4 WAR pitcher since '08? Or that at 25 Buchholz (2010) had a season that would only be bested by Dempster's 2008? Or that moving into the more offensive AL might negatively impact his numbers?

 

Dodgers' #2 lol

[BeerHere]

This seems to be the discussion for the 2012 Cubs. If you get enough for _________ (fill in the blank with Garza, Dempster, or Lahair) then trade him, if not retain/extend/keep him.

Agreed but there are guys I want gone just because and I don't care what we get back. Johnson, Lendy Castillo, Barney...Wood and Soto aren't there yet but they're getting there.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Actually that was a poorly thought out argument...Blech...Still think he's closer to a 4 than anyone here will care to admit. I certainly don't see the Cubs being a WS contender without adding at least one or two better arms (two if Shark isn't real). Edited May 9, 2012 by PriortoTheoIhadWood

[Sammy Sofa]

This seems to be the discussion for the 2012 Cubs. If you get enough for _________ (fill in the blank with Garza, Dempster, or Lahair) then trade him, if not retain/extend/keep him.

Agreed but there are guys I want gone just because and I don't care what we get back. Johnson, Lendy Castillo, Barney...Wood and Soto aren't there yet but they're getting there.

 

Yeah, that Soto is really trending in the wrong direction.