Is Bryan LaHair legit?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well, to be blunt, people thinking they can "look for a place for him play" are just in denial. He's not any kind of a solution in any OF spot barring a miracle, so the best bet is that he keeps looking decent at the plate and teams with a need at 1B or DH come looking.

 

These are the same sort of people who would take their paycheck to the roulette wheel, hit, and then let it ride.

[davell]

What kind of return do you think is a bare minimum, in order to deal him though? Personally, I think having an above average bat with a below average glove in LF for the league minimum is fine, especially with us paying Soriano for the entirety of LaHair's cheap years anyway. I'd love to deal him, but the MLBTR article mentioning 2 top 15 type prospects from a system isn't enough for me.

[mookie]

What kind of return do you think is a bare minimum, in order to deal him though? Personally, I think having an above average bat with a below average glove in LF for the league minimum is fine, especially with us paying Soriano for the entirety of LaHair's cheap years anyway. I'd love to deal him, but the MLBTR article mentioning 2 top 15 type prospects from a system isn't enough for me.

 

That isn't enough for you? For LaHair? When I read that article, I thought the guy was taking the piss.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What kind of return do you think is a bare minimum, in order to deal him though? Personally, I think having an above average bat with a below average glove in LF for the league minimum is fine, especially with us paying Soriano for the entirety of LaHair's cheap years anyway. I'd love to deal him, but the MLBTR article mentioning 2 top 15 type prospects from a system isn't enough for me.

 

I'm still not willing to project him as an above-average bat going forward.

[davell]

I'm buying in at this point, I guess. Goldstein, Law, Callis, Badler and anyone else I've seen asked about him all think he's going to hit. I'd love to trade him, but I'd want a worthwhile package in return. Because if this guy can and does produce a mid. 800's OPS for a few seasons, there's quite a bit of value there, especially since it'd be coming from a league minimum salary.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd love to deal him, but the MLBTR article mentioning 2 top 15 type prospects from a system isn't enough for me.

 

Wait, what? What the hell are you expecting?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I'd love to deal him, but the MLBTR article mentioning 2 top 15 type prospects from a system isn't enough for me.

 

Wait, what? What the hell are you expecting?

 

We're talking a guy who can hit the [expletive] out of the ball and is under team control for the next 6 years. If someone wants to give us one of their top 5 and another of their top 10-15, then we'll talk but theres no reason to rush him out just to so. Even if he can stabilize as a mid-high 800s OPS guy, thats better than most of what we have. If someone wants to overpay, then great. If not, have him spend the off season playing LF at winter ball. I could see the Indians, Tigers, Dodgers, Brewers, Yankees, Angels, Blue Jays, and Rangers as teams that could come sniffing around in July as either a 1B or DH.

[Sammy Sofa]

God only knows why you're talking about people "rushing him out the door." Obviously you wait to trade him until the demand is there, but other teams aren't stupid; it's plain as day that Rizzo is the ideal 1B of the future for the Cubs and LaHair effectively doesn't have a place as a starter on a team where he can't play 1B or DH. It's not an issue of "rushing him out" so much as moving him just makes sense once they want Rizzo up full time.

 

Also:

 

If not, have him spend the off season playing LF at winter ball.

 

is redundant. Just accept it.

[17 Seconds]

take the first good offer you get

[Backtobanks]

I think Lahair is great, but I can't believe any team is going to make the kind of offer that some of you are talking about.

[Little Slide Rooter]

God only knows why you're talking about people "rushing him out the door." Obviously you wait to trade him until the demand is there, but other teams aren't stupid; it's plain as day that Rizzo is the ideal 1B of the future for the Cubs and LaHair effectively doesn't have a place as a starter on a team where he can't play 1B or DH. It's not an issue of "rushing him out" so much as moving him just makes sense once they want Rizzo up full time.

 

Also:

 

If not, have him spend the off season playing LF at winter ball.

 

is redundant. Just accept it.

 

Rizzo should really be our 2013 opening day 1st baseman, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If LaHair finishes 2012 with an OPS in the mid .900s or higher, then some teams could take him very seriously. The same teams I listed above should still have interest with the exception of the Tigers who would have V Mart. Rays, Dodgers, Indians, and Blue Jays as well as maybe Brewers and Rangers will be on the hunt for a 1B, and

 

The 1B market looks like this next year.

First basemen

Lance Berkman (36)

Russell Branyan (37)

Jason Giambi (42)

Brad Hawpe (34)

Eric Hinske (35)

Aubrey Huff (36) - $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Casey Kotchman (30)

Adam LaRoche (33) - $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Carlos Lee (37)

James Loney (29)

Xavier Nady (34)

Mike Napoli (31)

Lyle Overbay (36)

Carlos Pena (35)

Ty Wigginton (35) - $4MM club option with a $500K buyout

 

Here are the DHs

 

Designated hitters

Bobby Abreu (39)

Johnny Damon (39)

Edwin Encarnacion (30)

Travis Hafner (36) - $13MM club option with a $2.75MM buyout

Raul Ibanez (41)

Hideki Matsui (39)

David Ortiz (38)

Manny Ramirez (41)

Luke Scott (35) - $6MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Jim Thome (42)

[dew1679666265]

Rizzo should really be our 2013 opening day 1st baseman, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If LaHair finishes 2012 with an OPS in the mid .900s or higher, then some teams could take him very seriously.

 

What if we hold out for a top 5 prospect and another top 10-15, don't get the offer, keep him, and then he finishes the year with a sub-.800 OPS? Then we have an average bat and a below average glove on our hands - not a very valuable commodity on the market. While it's nice to think about your scenario, the sub-.800 OPS scenario is more likely.

 

I'm not in favor of giving him up for scraps, but if we can get two of another team's top 15 prospects, I do that trade without thinking twice. This is a guy who had 0 value prior to the season.

[Magnetic Curses]

It's cool to hate on people who are tearing [expletive] up right now, is that it?

[dew1679666265]

It's cool to hate on people who are tearing [expletive] up right now, is that it?

 

I don't think there's too much hating on LaHair in this thread. Just people being realistic.

[Ryne Ween]

I respect Lahair for being a ray of sunshine in this joke of a lineup.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It's cool to hate on people who are tearing [expletive] up right now, is that it?

 

I don't think there's too much hating on LaHair in this thread. Just people being realistic.

 

It's not so much the lack of realism as much as those stomping all over the possibility of letting LaHair play a few innings in LF to see how disastrous it would be. There have been some brutal defenders stashed in LF in the past to keep their bat in the lineup, and when you're a team who doesn't exactly have power to spare you should at least be willing to entertain the idea of finding a way to keep this guy especially if you're not going to get a strong return.

 

Since we do need an outfielder, I wonder if we'd be able to package him with a few prospects or big league ready guys to Toronto for Travis Snider.

[dew1679666265]

Since we do need an outfielder, I wonder if we'd be able to package him with a few prospects or big league ready guys to Toronto for Travis Snider.

 

I'd much rather wait until the offseason and go for Upton rather than give up prospects for Snider.

[erik316wttn]

Since we do need an outfielder, I wonder if we'd be able to package him with a few prospects or big league ready guys to Toronto for Travis Snider.

 

I'd much rather wait until the offseason and go for Upton rather than give up prospects for Snider.

 

Doesn't BJ kind of suck?

[Guest]

Since we do need an outfielder, I wonder if we'd be able to package him with a few prospects or big league ready guys to Toronto for Travis Snider.

 

I'd much rather wait until the offseason and go for Upton rather than give up prospects for Snider.

 

Doesn't BJ kind of suck?

No.

[sneakypower]

What kind of return do you think is a bare minimum, in order to deal him though? Personally, I think having an above average bat with a below average glove in LF for the league minimum is fine, especially with us paying Soriano for the entirety of LaHair's cheap years anyway. I'd love to deal him, but the MLBTR article mentioning 2 top 15 type prospects from a system isn't enough for me.

 

I'm still not willing to project him as an above-average bat going forward.

which is good, because you're wrong about everything

 

average wOBA is .313, zips has him at .358; he's definitely above-average

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well, if ZIPS said it, it must be true.

 

I actually meant league-average for a 1b. I'm sure he can maintain the league average overall.

 

I'm a lot more willing to accept the possibility that he's an Adam Dunn type than I was going into the season, but it's still all coming from a .500 BABIP and a 37.4% HR/FB ratio.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Hairyducked Idiot

[KingCubsFan]

Rizzo should really be our 2013 opening day 1st baseman, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If LaHair finishes 2012 with an OPS in the mid .900s or higher, then some teams could take him very seriously.

 

What if we hold out for a top 5 prospect and another top 10-15, don't get the offer, keep him, and then he finishes the year with a sub-.800 OPS? Then we have an average bat and a below average glove on our hands - not a very valuable commodity on the market. While it's nice to think about your scenario, the sub-.800 OPS scenario is more likely.

 

I'm not in favor of giving him up for scraps, but if we can get two of another team's top 15 prospects, I do that trade without thinking twice. This is a guy who had 0 value prior to the season.

Is a sub-.800 OPS more likely at this point? No matter how much you attribute his start to luck, his numbers are so absurdly good that I have to think he'd have to really fall off a cliff to not end up with respectable numbers by the end of the year. The walk rate and LD% suggest he should maintain some production going forward.

 

Overall, I think it's worth holding onto him. As has been documented, guys like LaHair do come out of nowhere every once in a while and have productive careers. Jumping at the chance to trade him for two C to C+ prospects seems premature, as those trades rarely work out and the consensus outside of this board seems to be that this is not a complete fluke. The concern with LF defense is a bit excessive, especially considering the LF defense this team has dealt with (and succeeded with) the past 6 years. Best case scenario, we have an Andre-Ethier like player for cheap the next few years. Worse case, we lose out on the ability to add two more Brett Wallach's/Abner Abreu's to the system.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Since we do need an outfielder, I wonder if we'd be able to package him with a few prospects or big league ready guys to Toronto for Travis Snider.

 

I'd much rather wait until the offseason and go for Upton rather than give up prospects for Snider.

 

LaHair would be the center of the deal. by prospects I mean fringe guys or big league ready extras.

[Guest]

Rizzo should really be our 2013 opening day 1st baseman, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If LaHair finishes 2012 with an OPS in the mid .900s or higher, then some teams could take him very seriously.

 

What if we hold out for a top 5 prospect and another top 10-15, don't get the offer, keep him, and then he finishes the year with a sub-.800 OPS? Then we have an average bat and a below average glove on our hands - not a very valuable commodity on the market. While it's nice to think about your scenario, the sub-.800 OPS scenario is more likely.

 

I'm not in favor of giving him up for scraps, but if we can get two of another team's top 15 prospects, I do that trade without thinking twice. This is a guy who had 0 value prior to the season.

Is a sub-.800 OPS more likely at this point? No matter how much you attribute his start to luck, his numbers are so absurdly good that I have to think he'd have to really fall off a cliff to not end up with respectable numbers by the end of the year. The walk rate and LD% suggest he should maintain some production going forward.

 

Overall, I think it's worth holding onto him. As has been documented, guys like LaHair do come out of nowhere every once in a while and have productive careers. Jumping at the chance to trade him for two C to C+ prospects seems premature, as those trades rarely work out and the consensus outside of this board seems to be that this is not a complete fluke. The concern with LF defense is a bit excessive, especially considering the LF defense this team has dealt with (and succeeded with) the past 6 years. Best case scenario, we have an Andre-Ethier like player for cheap the next few years. Worse case, we lose out on the ability to add two more Brett Wallach's/Abner Abreu's to the system.

 

So you think Soriano has been a poor defender throughout his tenure as a Cub?

[dew1679666265]

Doesn't BJ kind of suck?

 

Not at all. He's been worth 4+ fWAR for 4 of the past 5 seasons and his high point was 5 WAR in 2008. His offensive numbers aren't great (.258/.343/.417) but his defense is really good and he steals bases at an efficient clip (76% career success rate).

 

On top of that, he'll be 28 most of the year next year, so we'd have him through a good portion of his prime years. He's really good.