Wrigley Renovation Thread

[BeerHere]

It would pretty much suck and be a disgrace to the team, but if it helps them get what they want and make Tom Tunney risk losing the Cubs and, basically all of his Ward's sales tax revenue in the process, good for them.

I don't think it would be a disgrace to the team at all. I think the city would be the ones in disgrace for not being able to work out a deal with an owner who is willing to foot the entire bill for the project.

 

Having a stadium butting up against O'Hare would blow. There are multiple runways within a couple hundreds yards of the described location.

 

It would also likely cost the team roughly $1B to build a new stadium worth building, even if they get the land for free.

 

Yeah, playing at a stadium across from the airport and a shopping wall would basically be turning your back on the very reason anyone gives a damn about the [expletive] franchise for the past 40 years.

 

Now, could you argue that's what they need? Sure, but why can't they have a new philosophy while maintaining their uniqueness?

I'll admit that the airplanes would be horrible. Rosemont doesn't exactly have a sparkling reputation either (mafia, bribery). I would love to see the team moved out of Wrigleyville and screw the rooftop owners/Tunney but it won't happen. This gives the team leverage either way.

[davell]

If it costs a billion to build the park, I wonder if Joe would do that anyway. This is just posturing, but I wonder if it even DID come down to it, if he could be convinced to come off that kind of cash.

[WrigleyField 22]

Its not a disgrace for the Cubs to move to the burbs, especially one so close with decent public transit ammenities, but they can certainly get more than just some free land. Gotta subsidize the cost more somehow to make it worthwhile.

 

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

Its not a disgrace for the Cubs to move to the burbs, especially one so close with decent public transit ammenities, but they can certainly get more than just some free land. Gotta subsidize the cost more somehow to make it worthwhile.

 

there are no decent public transit amenities in the area.

[SouthSideRyan]

Rosemont has been a smashing success for DePaul basketball

[WrigleyField 22]

Its not a disgrace for the Cubs to move to the burbs, especially one so close with decent public transit ammenities, but they can certainly get more than just some free land. Gotta subsidize the cost more somehow to make it worthwhile.

 

there are no decent public transit amenities in the area.

The Blue Line

 

And apparently by a Metra Stop. I'd assume a halfway decent bus system, or would be if they moved there.

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

The blue line sucks, takes forever to get anywhere and is not located near the area described. And buses are not decent. Compare to citi or Yankees stadium that have multiple trains right across the street. Yankees stadium is a few minutes from manhattan and the trip is okay. Citi is far from anything and blows. This would be worse than citi.

[crazycooter]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9047502/wrigley-ivy-choking-life-field

But his biggest sportswriter sin here is simply not understanding Cubs baseball. Failing to recognize that the Cubs make money hand over fist and, when it has suited their interests, they have spent it hand over fist. The problem with all of that has been how they’ve chosen to spend it. What, you’re telling me that if Jim Hendry had $73 more million to spend he would have done fewer deals like the ones given to Carlos Zambrano and Alfonso Soriano? That he would have somehow found a way to pay big money for a free agent that wasn’t truly awful? The Cubs have never been one of baseball’s poor sisters. They have been baseball’s poor decision makers often, however.

 

But hey, no need for Reilly to get into that. That would take some thought and critical analysis of what the team’s owners tell him while they’re trying to get the ball rolling on ballpark renovations. And who has time for that?

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/15/wrigley-field-renovations-cubs-economics-dont-worry-rick-reillys-got-this/

 

I'm not buying the argument from the Hardball talk guy. He's basically saying that if the Cubs made good decisions they would have plenty of money as it stands to do what they need to do. The implication is that the franchise doesn't really need the extra money that would come from renovations. While that may or may not be true, it doesn't have anything to do with whether the city should allow Ricketts to use his own money to renovate Wrigley.

[WrigleyField 22]

The blue line sucks, takes forever to get anywhere and is not located near the area described. And buses are not decent. Compare to citi or Yankees stadium that have multiple trains right across the street. Yankees stadium is a few minutes from manhattan and the trip is okay. Citi is far from anything and blows. This would be worse than citi.

Well it is a suburban stadium afterall. Even as a suburb that borders the city thats what you get. If the Cubs couldn't stay at Wrigley (which won't happen anyways) they could do worse, like Schaumburg or something. Comparing it to Wrigley or freaking Yankee stadium is dumb. Of course you're gonna downgrade. I mention the buses as CTA and Pace already service the general area so it doesn't take much to add or modify routes that maximizes the transit via bus.

 

Two trains and easily available bus Infrastructure is a lot better than most stadiums have. So yes, it is decent public transit.

 

Regarding the blue line in relation to there, its about a mile. And it doesn't suck. It runs 24 hours, services the loop and a major international airport, and runs back out to the near west suburbs.

 

Honestly the worst part about a hypothetical Rosemont is the airplanes. And thats probably a big enough negative to veto it, without going into anything else, like slightly less accomodating transit (which is somewhat offset some by a major highway and increased parking)

 

The good news is Rosemont is at best a leveraging tool, so we don't have to worry too much about our additional travel time.

 

 

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[UMFan83]

The blue line sucks, takes forever to get anywhere and is not located near the area described. And buses are not decent. Compare to citi or Yankees stadium that have multiple trains right across the street. Yankees stadium is a few minutes from manhattan and the trip is okay. Citi is far from anything and blows. This would be worse than citi.

 

As someone who once tried to take public transit to a DePaul game, I agree public transportation to the game would be terrible. It would be a lot easier for driving to the game though.

[WrigleyField 22]

The blue line sucks, takes forever to get anywhere and is not located near the area described. And buses are not decent. Compare to citi or Yankees stadium that have multiple trains right across the street. Yankees stadium is a few minutes from manhattan and the trip is okay. Citi is far from anything and blows. This would be worse than citi.

 

As someone who once tried to take public transit to a DePaul game, I agree public transportation to the game would be terrible. It would be a lot easier for driving to the game though.

All State is further its closest metra stop and outside of walking distance from the blue line. This proposed location is adjacent to a metra and in the high range of walking distance (1.3 miles according to google maps). And if you rule out walking, just look at a map to see how much more convenient shuttle service would be compared to All State.

 

 

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[Guest]

 

Yeah, playing at a stadium across from the airport and a shopping wall would basically be turning your back on the very reason anyone gives a damn about the [expletive] franchise for the past 40 years.

 

Now, could you argue that's what they need? Sure, but why can't they have a new philosophy while maintaining their uniqueness?

 

With regard to this specific proposal, the airplanes would definitely suck, but the bold is definitely not true.

[Sammy Sofa]

Rosemont doesn't exactly have a sparkling reputation either (mafia, bribery).

 

Yes, as opposed to the sterling rep that Chicago has.

 

Or anywhere in Illinois.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Rosemont doesn't exactly have a sparkling reputation either (mafia, bribery).

 

Yes, as opposed to the sterling rep that Chicago has.

 

Or anywhere in Illinois.

 

Screw you, Mattoon is squeaky clean.

[jersey cubs fan]

The blue line sucks, takes forever to get anywhere and is not located near the area described. And buses are not decent. Compare to citi or Yankees stadium that have multiple trains right across the street. Yankees stadium is a few minutes from manhattan and the trip is okay. Citi is far from anything and blows. This would be worse than citi.

Well it is a suburban stadium afterall. Even as a suburb that borders the city thats what you get. If the Cubs couldn't stay at Wrigley (which won't happen anyways) they could do worse, like Schaumburg or something. Comparing it to Wrigley or freaking Yankee stadium is dumb.

 

It is not dumb at all. Yankee Stadium is in an outlying borough. It is nowhere near a business center of any kind and fairly isolated, similar to this proposed location. The comparison is made however, because baseball is an everyday sport that relies on people going to the stadium from work. In cities where public transit (trains, not freaking buses or shuttles from parking lots) is vital for commuters you need your stadiums within easy access of the city's main transit options. The Blue line is the worst line in Chicago. It takes forever to get from O'Hare to downtown, let alone to simply transfer to another line. And a mile plus walk from a station to a stadium is absurd. Citi Field, which blows, has subway tracks across the street and transit trains is the same spot.

[Lefty]

Skokie. They have the land ready to be condemned right near the highway and the Yellow Line extension from Howard and a Greyhound Bus station.

[Guest]

Skokie. They have the land ready to be condemned right near the highway and the Yellow Line extension from Howard and a Greyhound Bus station.

 

What land is this?

[SouthSideRyan]

Skokie. They have the land ready to be condemned right near the highway and the Yellow Line extension from Howard and a Greyhound Bus station.

 

It takes just as long to get out there as it does to Rosemont. Let's just play the games in Carbondale. They have at least a couple Amtraks a day running down there, that should be plenty.

 

ETA: Tons of open land too

Edited March 19, 2013 by SouthSideRyan

[bukie]

There's a huge parking lot next to US Cellular field that isn't ever used.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

I see an awful lot of "it takes so long to get there" as arguments against a Rosemont stadium. What about the huge number of fans who live in the suburbs? It's easier to get to Rosemont from the suburbs than Wrigley. I know you city folk like to pretend you're the only ones that matter, but an awful lot of people live in the surrounding area that would benefit from a move out west.

[jersey cubs fan]

I see an awful lot of "it takes so long to get there" as arguments against a Rosemont stadium. What about the huge number of fans who live in the suburbs? It's easier to get to Rosemont from the suburbs than Wrigley. I know you city folk like to pretend you're the only ones that matter, but an awful lot of people live in the surrounding area that would benefit from a move out west.

 

In short it doesn't matter.

 

If you live and work in the burbs you drive everywhere anyway. There are much more people and many more people with money inside the city and those are the people that baseball teams depend on to sell seats. You need the office worker with the $100 ticket to be able to hop off the train and enter the stadium right after work. Suburban parks don't work in areas that rely upon city centers and public transportation. There is a reason every new stadium that popped up were built in cities, and not in the exurbs. That's fine for a place like LA, where everybody drives everywhere, but it would not work in Chicago. It doesn't matter if it helps out a portion of the fan base that would now have a shorter drive to games. It would alienate a much larger portion of the fan base.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

I see an awful lot of "it takes so long to get there" as arguments against a Rosemont stadium. What about the huge number of fans who live in the suburbs? It's easier to get to Rosemont from the suburbs than Wrigley. I know you city folk like to pretend you're the only ones that matter, but an awful lot of people live in the surrounding area that would benefit from a move out west.

 

In short it doesn't matter.

 

If you live and work in the burbs you drive everywhere anyway. There are much more people and many more people with money inside the city and those are the people that baseball teams depend on to sell seats. You need the office worker with the $100 ticket to be able to hop off the train and enter the stadium right after work. Suburban parks don't work in areas that rely upon city centers and public transportation. There is a reason every new stadium that popped up were built in cities, and not in the exurbs. That's fine for a place like LA, where everybody drives everywhere, but it would not work in Chicago. It doesn't matter if it helps out a portion of the fan base that would now have a shorter drive to games. It would alienate a much larger portion of the fan base.

I just google mapped public transportation from the loop to Wrigley as 26 minutes. The NCS Metra from Union Station to the O'hare transfer in Rosemont is 32 minutes. That six minutes can't be a deal breaker for the downtown office worker (read: me for the last 5 years).

[WrigleyField 22]

The blue line sucks, takes forever to get anywhere and is not located near the area described. And buses are not decent. Compare to citi or Yankees stadium that have multiple trains right across the street. Yankees stadium is a few minutes from manhattan and the trip is okay. Citi is far from anything and blows. This would be worse than citi.

Well it is a suburban stadium afterall. Even as a suburb that borders the city thats what you get. If the Cubs couldn't stay at Wrigley (which won't happen anyways) they could do worse, like Schaumburg or something. Comparing it to Wrigley or freaking Yankee stadium is dumb.

 

It is not dumb at all. Yankee Stadium is in an outlying borough. It is nowhere near a business center of any kind and fairly isolated, similar to this proposed location. The comparison is made however, because baseball is an everyday sport that relies on people going to the stadium from work. In cities where public transit (trains, not freaking buses or shuttles from parking lots) is vital for commuters you need your stadiums within easy access of the city's main transit options. The Blue line is the worst line in Chicago. It takes forever to get from O'Hare to downtown, let alone to simply transfer to another line. And a mile plus walk from a station to a stadium is absurd. Citi Field, which blows, has subway tracks across the street and transit trains is the same spot.

Well most stadiums with awesome transit outdate the transit systems that service it. So expecting to drop a stafium by super convenient transit is silly.

 

Also bringing up Wrigley or Yankee stadium sort of implies the transit is only decent, when they are in fact good. It doesn't need to equal Wrigley to be decent. They're totally different levels. If I claimed Darwin Barney was a decent middle infielder would you bring up Starlin Castro to refute my point?

 

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

I see an awful lot of "it takes so long to get there" as arguments against a Rosemont stadium. What about the huge number of fans who live in the suburbs? It's easier to get to Rosemont from the suburbs than Wrigley. I know you city folk like to pretend you're the only ones that matter, but an awful lot of people live in the surrounding area that would benefit from a move out west.

 

In short it doesn't matter.

 

If you live and work in the burbs you drive everywhere anyway. There are much more people and many more people with money inside the city and those are the people that baseball teams depend on to sell seats. You need the office worker with the $100 ticket to be able to hop off the train and enter the stadium right after work. Suburban parks don't work in areas that rely upon city centers and public transportation. There is a reason every new stadium that popped up were built in cities, and not in the exurbs. That's fine for a place like LA, where everybody drives everywhere, but it would not work in Chicago. It doesn't matter if it helps out a portion of the fan base that would now have a shorter drive to games. It would alienate a much larger portion of the fan base.

I just google mapped public transportation from the loop to Wrigley as 26 minutes. The NCS Metra from Union Station to the O'hare transfer in Rosemont is 32 minutes. That six minutes can't be a deal breaker for the downtown office worker (read: me for the last 5 years).

 

That's one train line, and only Metra, not the CTA. In the comparison to Citi Field, (which again sucks and nobody has been going for years) there is a subway line and a commuter train. Yankee Stadium has multiple subways and commuter lines. You have to compare Chicago's situation to NY and Boston. They may have football stadiums located far from the city itself, but that's for eight dates a year and only weekends. In a sport that plays everyday in a city that relies on transit for commuters, a suburban stadium is a awful idea.

 

You need easy access of public transit and this location does not allow for it. It's also butted up against multiple runways and a tollway and only accessible from one direction. It's horrible.

 

 

Wrigley Field has thrived for decades with no parking. Why? Because you don't need to drive to the stadium. If you insist on it you can, but it's not recommended. That doesn't hurt the team. Moving away from the city would hurt. Again, you can make it easier for a few hundred thousand theoretical customers but you will be making it much hard for many more people and virtually eliminating the tourist dollar.

[jersey cubs fan]

Well most stadiums with awesome transit outdate the transit systems that service it. So expecting to drop a stafium by super convenient transit is silly.

 

Also bringing up Wrigley or Yankee stadium sort of implies the transit is only decent, when they are in fact good. It doesn't need to equal Wrigley to be decent. They're totally different levels. If I claimed Darwin Barney was a decent middle infielder would you bring up Starlin Castro to refute my point?

 

The transit options are the lifeblood of the attendance figures. It's not just meaningful, it's the most important thing.

 

Dropping a stadium next door to O'hare goes beyond silly and is just flat out dumb.