Chicago Bulls Playoff Thread

[bcl412]

I don't though, why some Bulls fans are obsessed with the idea that they have no chance. What's the [expletive] point?

It's about understanding the game, not just being fatalistic for the sake of it. I don't sit around watching Bulls games thinking, "oh this sucks, why am I wasting my time?" I watch Bulls games thinking, "I sure do love NBA basketball and the Bulls." Just like I did when Kirk Hinrich was our best player and just like I did when Jalen Rose was our best player and just like I did when Elton Brand was our best player and just like I did when Michael Jordan was our best player.

 

Thinking this roster is good enough as is to win a championship is fine as a fan, I guess. I certainly hope the Bulls front office doesn't share those beliefs. I think this roster is good enough to conceivably win it all, but it's not good enough to more than likely win it all. I want my team to be the best, and I guess I just remember the Knicks, Jazz, Suns and Pacers in the 90's too well to be ok with my favorite team following in their footsteps. Obviously parity is better now because Michael Jordan isn't in his prime, but being the third or fourth best team at the end of the playoffs sucks compared to being the best.

 

Understanding the difference between someone saying they're probably not going to win it and they're definitely not going to win it is maybe a subtlety that is lost on you, so I'm going to go ahead and speak for everyone in this thread who thinks the Heat and Thunder are a better constructed team for a playoff run and say explicitly: The Bulls, as currently constructed, are probably not going to win the NBA Championship. Because their two direct competitors are still in their prime and will be for some time, the Bulls need to upgrade their roster.

 

I'm sorry. Acting like the Bulls likely won't beat Miami because of one series that was full of close games is not exactly thinking in an objective manner either.

 

I've never said that the Bulls are the perfectly assembled team, thinking so is insane. But, this team will not be improving this year as far as adding new players goes. There is plenty of evidence this year that says they can beat Miami and who knows after that so obsess over it. I mean, Jesus Christ, I feel like after every game no matter the result (and it doesn't happen all the time here) I have to here about how they have no chance to beat Miami. It's [expletive] obnoxious.

[SouthSideRyan]

Are any of you the least bit worried about whoever emerges from the 4-5 game?

[C.C.]

I don't though, why some Bulls fans are obsessed with the idea that they have no chance. What's the [expletive] point?

It's about understanding the game, not just being fatalistic for the sake of it. I don't sit around watching Bulls games thinking, "oh this sucks, why am I wasting my time?" I watch Bulls games thinking, "I sure do love NBA basketball and the Bulls." Just like I did when Kirk Hinrich was our best player and just like I did when Jalen Rose was our best player and just like I did when Elton Brand was our best player and just like I did when Michael Jordan was our best player.

 

Thinking this roster is good enough as is to win a championship is fine as a fan, I guess. I certainly hope the Bulls front office doesn't share those beliefs. I think this roster is good enough to conceivably win it all, but it's not good enough to more than likely win it all. I want my team to be the best, and I guess I just remember the Knicks, Jazz, Suns and Pacers in the 90's too well to be ok with my favorite team following in their footsteps. Obviously parity is better now because Michael Jordan isn't in his prime, but being the third or fourth best team at the end of the playoffs sucks compared to being the best.

 

Understanding the difference between someone saying they're probably not going to win it and they're definitely not going to win it is maybe a subtlety that is lost on you, so I'm going to go ahead and speak for everyone in this thread who thinks the Heat and Thunder are a better constructed team for a playoff run and say explicitly: The Bulls, as currently constructed, are probably not going to win the NBA Championship. Because their two direct competitors are still in their prime and will be for some time, the Bulls need to upgrade their roster.

 

 

Tell me. How do you build a team that is a sure thing to win the championship? I just don't get this argument at all. Some people think its as simple as "getting Dwight Howard", or "getting LeBron James". This is absurd. And even when teams seem to do it, like by getting Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudamire, they fall on their face.

 

The Bulls have done a pretty good job with personnel and coaching. Why don't you give them a freaking chance. The team has had the best record in the league for 2 years, and lost one series. Let them at least lose again before calling for dismantling the team. I just don't get people calling for this before this team has even had a chance to prove they can't win.

 

The way you're talking, you would've called for the dismantling of the Mavs last year before the playoffs. Don't tell me you thought the Mavs had a chance in hell of winning going into the playoffs.

 

Who is saying dismantling? How is trying to improve dismantling?

[bcl412]

Are any of you the least bit worried about whoever emerges from the 4-5 game?

 

Yes,aside from Philly right now, I think every playoff team can beat anyone else in a series right now. I think the Knicks could easily make the first round series a 6-7 game series.

[C.C.]

Are any of you the least bit worried about whoever emerges from the 4-5 game?

 

Yes,aside from Philly right now, I think every playoff team can beat anyone else in a series right now. I think the Knicks could easily make the first round series a 6-7 game series.

 

 

I wish that was true.

Edited April 13, 2012 by C.C.

[cubbyvirus00]

NBA teams in general scrap the playbook and try to win with hero ball in the end. It's not just the Bulls and the Bulls wouldn't be the only team well served by sticking with what's presumably kept them in the game until crunch time. I'm not sure why teams do that but one I reason is because it's easier to milk clock and grind possessions with ISO ball.

 

Agreed. But it's a lot easier to do so when your hero is 6'6" - 6'9", can outjump everyone on the floor and is quicker than anyone that could possibly be guarding him. If Rose has the ball, it's going to be a contested jumper. If LBJ or 90s Jordan have the ball, it can be a jumpshot against someone that's either smaller, less athletic, or can't jump high enough to contest (or all of the above in most cases) or its a drive to the hoop against a player only 3-6 inches taller instead of 6 to 9 inches.

 

Stop confusing me with common sense!

 

The way bcl sees it, anyone with a lick of logic and reason is "hellbent" on saying the Bulls are going to lose in the ECF against the Heat.

 

Last year I had the unguarded optimism, this year I really haven't seen enough to allow me to think things are going to change completely.

[DivineBovine]

I don't though, why some Bulls fans are obsessed with the idea that they have no chance. What's the [expletive] point?

It's about understanding the game, not just being fatalistic for the sake of it. I don't sit around watching Bulls games thinking, "oh this sucks, why am I wasting my time?" I watch Bulls games thinking, "I sure do love NBA basketball and the Bulls." Just like I did when Kirk Hinrich was our best player and just like I did when Jalen Rose was our best player and just like I did when Elton Brand was our best player and just like I did when Michael Jordan was our best player.

 

Thinking this roster is good enough as is to win a championship is fine as a fan, I guess. I certainly hope the Bulls front office doesn't share those beliefs. I think this roster is good enough to conceivably win it all, but it's not good enough to more than likely win it all. I want my team to be the best, and I guess I just remember the Knicks, Jazz, Suns and Pacers in the 90's too well to be ok with my favorite team following in their footsteps. Obviously parity is better now because Michael Jordan isn't in his prime, but being the third or fourth best team at the end of the playoffs sucks compared to being the best.

 

Understanding the difference between someone saying they're probably not going to win it and they're definitely not going to win it is maybe a subtlety that is lost on you, so I'm going to go ahead and speak for everyone in this thread who thinks the Heat and Thunder are a better constructed team for a playoff run and say explicitly: The Bulls, as currently constructed, are probably not going to win the NBA Championship. Because their two direct competitors are still in their prime and will be for some time, the Bulls need to upgrade their roster.

 

 

Tell me. How do you build a team that is a sure thing to win the championship? I just don't get this argument at all. Some people think its as simple as "getting Dwight Howard", or "getting LeBron James". This is absurd. And even when teams seem to do it, like by getting Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudamire, they fall on their face.

 

The Bulls have done a pretty good job with personnel and coaching. Why don't you give them a freaking chance. The team has had the best record in the league for 2 years, and lost one series. Let them at least lose again before calling for dismantling the team. I just don't get people calling for this before this team has even had a chance to prove they can't win.

 

The way you're talking, you would've called for the dismantling of the Mavs last year before the playoffs. Don't tell me you thought the Mavs had a chance in hell of winning going into the playoffs.

 

Who is saying dismantling? How is trying to improve dismantling?

 

 

Gimme a break. OK. How do you IMPROVE the team? And why don't you tell GarPax that they should get off their asses and try and IMPROVE the team because they just don't seem to be trying to IMPROVE the team.

 

You guys act like they DIDN'T try and trade for Dwight Howard this year, even with the best record.

[CubColtPacer]

Are any of you the least bit worried about whoever emerges from the 4-5 game?

 

I think it's natural for fans to do that (to look ahead to the first competition that is considered equal or better to themselves). The Bulls are better than whoever will be in the 4/5, although each of those teams will have a realistic chance of beating the Bulls in a series as well.

 

But if I was handicapping the Eastern Conference and had to choose between Chicago/Miami as the ECF or any other combination, I think any other combination is a little more likely. It's almost certain one of Chicago or Miami will make the ECF because they are the best two teams, but they aren't so far ahead to think that it's extremely likely both will make it.

 

Although the chances become much greater IMO for one of them to be upset if either Boston or Orlando flip seeds with Indiana (especially Boston). I don't think that is likely to happen, but IMO Boston-Miami and Indiana-Chicago gives better chances for an upset than the reverse. Atlanta could win the first round but almost certainly not the second, Orlando has a wide range of possibilities, New York has the potential for a huge upset but will likely go down quietly, and Philadelphia has no chance.

[wolf stansson]

Are any of you the least bit worried about whoever emerges from the 4-5 game?

D Rose's groin is the wildcard. He needs to prove it's rust and not injury before I count out even the 8 seed.

[SouthSideRyan]

What about the matchups make you think Boston and Indy match up better with those respective teams?

[SouthSideRyan]

Are any of you the least bit worried about whoever emerges from the 4-5 game?

D Rose's groin is the wildcard. He needs to prove it's rust and not injury before I count out even the 8 seed.

 

I could see it going 7 without Rose, but I have a hard time seeing them dropping a series to the Knicks or Sixers. (The Bucks would be lucky to win a game even without Rose playing)

[SpongeWorthy]

What about the matchups make you think Boston and Indy match up better with those respective teams?

 

Rebounding

[davell]

I want Boston to reach the 3. I'd rather face Indians in a playoff series.

[CubColtPacer]

What about the matchups make you think Boston and Indy match up better with those respective teams?

 

Indiana struggles making shots at times and lives off free throws. They also hack a lot on defense. I'd be concerned about Indiana misses leading to transition buckets for Miami. And Indiana plays good team defense especially at the rim, but Lebron is so strong that it's hard to stop him at the rim. George specifically on defense tends to do best guarding smaller players who like to dribble, and he's done a good job on Rose the possessions he's been on him. I think the Indiana-Chicago series would get so physical again that they'd have to call lots of fouls, and that will serve to even the games up.

 

Boston I know less about and am going more off the season series against the two. But I'm not sure Miami has much of an answer for Rondo, and Boston's frontcourt difficulties aren't that much of a problem against Miami. Bradley could match up with Wade, and Pierce makes LeBron work. Chicago's rebounding and ability to slow down Pierce would be my concerns with Boston facing them, although I think Boston has a better chance of beating Chicago in 7 games than Indiana does Miami.

[bukie]

I think Boston matches up better with Miami than the Bulls, mostly due to the thin frontcourt not hurting them as much in the matchup, and Boston's defensive ability to limit Miami's transition.

 

I'd still give Chicago and Miami a 75% chance each at reaching the conference finals regardless.

 

As for the rest of the East:

- Indiana, to me, is the kind of team that has no business losing their first round matchup, and no business winning their second round matchup. Whoever they catch in the first round, they'll beat in 5-6, and whichever of the Bulls/Heat they catch in the second round, they'll lose in 5-6.

- Atlanta is only winning in the first round if they face Orlando, otherwise they're not making it out of the first round.

- Orlando is only interesting if they somehow get Miami, which is either going to take a serious nose dive from them over the next two weeks to drop to 7, or they'd have to win their first-round matchup. If they bring it 100% every night, I think their best chance is against Boston aside from Miami, but their composition of Dwight plus shooters is a matchup nightmare for the Heat if they can catch them.

- Philly should be better than they are, but they've been just plain terrible the past three weeks. They're excellent at blowing out bad teams, which inflates their overall statistical ratings, but I don't think they're a threat against a playoff team, especially with their troubles down the stretch of games. They'll be lucky to steal two games in their first round series.

- New York, I just don't get the appeal. They'd have to get insanely lucky to win two games, and even to take a game from Miami/Chicago they'd need to play well all-around.

[illiniguy]

I'd rather play the Pacers than the Celtics. Not sure if that really matters though.

[SouthSideRyan]

If I was a Bulls or Heat fan, I'd be most concerned with avoiding Orlando or Boston because they're the clubs with the highest ceilings. If Howard starts trying or if Boston can play their old guys 38 minutes without death, they're really good teams. I think Indiana and Atlanta have already played to their best abilities, and that's a notch below.

 

I'd rank them Boston-Orlando-Indiana-Atlanta as teams I'd lease like to play out of that group. The Bulls could get screwed as the 1 seed getting the 2 most talented teams in their half of the bracket.

[illiniguy]

If I was a Bulls or Heat fan, I'd be most concerned with avoiding Orlando or Boston because they're the clubs with the highest ceilings. If Howard starts trying or if Boston can play their old guys 38 minutes without death, they're really good teams. I think Indiana and Atlanta have already played to their best abilities, and that's a notch below.

 

I'd rank them Boston-Orlando-Indiana-Atlanta as teams I'd lease like to play out of that group. The Bulls could get screwed as the 1 seed getting the 2 most talented teams in their half of the bracket.

We only play one of them though. The bulls should beat either one.

[SouthSideRyan]

If I was a Bulls or Heat fan, I'd be most concerned with avoiding Orlando or Boston because they're the clubs with the highest ceilings. If Howard starts trying or if Boston can play their old guys 38 minutes without death, they're really good teams. I think Indiana and Atlanta have already played to their best abilities, and that's a notch below.

 

I'd rank them Boston-Orlando-Indiana-Atlanta as teams I'd lease like to play out of that group. The Bulls could get screwed as the 1 seed getting the 2 most talented teams in their half of the bracket.

We only play one of them though. The bulls should beat either one.

 

Assuming a healthy Rose, yes they should.

[UMFan83]

Are any of you the least bit worried about whoever emerges from the 4-5 game?

 

aww the Celtics fan wants to be relevant

 

 

Edit: My answer is yes. Although, Bulls have pretty much handled the Celtics with little struggle the last 6 times they've played. 5-1 in that span. If you want to go back to the beginning of last year its 5-3 as the Bulls lost 2 very close games to Boston when they were struggling to introduce 7 new rotation players and started the season 9-8 and finished 53-12. Boston has had its own good excuses as well, but the Bulls have gone 3-1 against them this year and 3 of the games were without Rose and one of those was a win without him during this Boston hot streak.

 

The playoffs are different of course, and we can't use the 2009 series as a comparison as the Bulls have drastically changed since then (Rose and Noah are the only 2 current Bulls to play in that series - Deng was injured), and the Celtics have Garnett - albeit not in his 2009 form (but has been resurgent lately). But overall, I don't worry about losing that series, although I'd expect it to be a long and difficult one. The Pacers I would worry about a little bit more, obviously they play us tough.

 

I'm getting a little wordy here, but my main point is that I think most Bulls fans understand that the ECF is not even close to a given and that the East is harder and the Bulls opponents in the 1st 2 rounds will undoubtably be tougher than last year's Indiana and Atlanta. But the Bulls should be favored to win every series against any team in the East accept Miami, and the Bulls proved that they can win in the playoffs (although were shaky at times), so its natural for fans to let their throughts drift towards the ECF at times.

[UMFan83]

LMAO...in today's column, he now says "am I wrong to think the Creaky But Lovable Celtics could sneak into the Finals?" Does he even realize how much of a homer he sounds like?

[DivineBovine]

It doesn't matter what the seeding is. I'm not saying the Bulls should take any opponent for granted, but if they can't get by Boston or Indy, then they won't be able to get by Miami.

[chuckywang]

It doesn't matter what the seeding is. I'm not saying the Bulls should take any opponent for granted, but if they can't get by Boston or Indy, then they won't be able to get by Miami.

 

True ... cause if they can't get by Boston or Indy, their season will be over and they won't get a chance to get by Miami.

[Theo]

Orlando is not a threat. They are done. The coach has thrown the star under the bus. The star has a herniated disk. There's no fight in them. In my mind, they the easiest out in the first round this year, yes even easier than let's say a Philly.

[UMFan83]

I'm listening to Lebatards show from yesterday and they are legit worried about the Bulls. They can't believe the Bulls 2nd team beat the Heat who were treating the game as a playoff game (and the minutes reflect that). They said the scary thing is Rose will never go 1-13 in his life again. Also both the hosts agree that the Bulls have improved more since last year than the Heat.

 

Also no one has brought up the "this happened last year and Heat destroyed the East in the playoffs. Part of that is probably because they are a radio show and need to be extreme in their opinions but it's interesting that people in Chicago are throwing that out there more than Miami guys.