Tigers sign Prince - 9/214 - Heyman

[Ding Dong Johnson]

That's not why people thought they were idiots.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I find it hilarious that so many on this board thought Rogers, Rosenbloom, etc. were idiots because they've been suggesting the Cubs go for a complete rebuild since last year.

"How stupid Rogers is. Teams with payrolls the size of the Cubs don't need to rebuild!"

Everyone was dying for Epstein to take over. And now that he has, we're doing a rebuild. Absolutely classic.

 

I have a few adjectives for it, and none are synonymous with "classic" or "hilarious."

[abuck1220]

my goodness, reading crap like that, you'd think the cubs were saddled with 14 bad contracts that last until 2018. the only bad contract they have after 2012 is soriano's. they shed the contracts of aramis and fukudome this year and will shed zambrano and dempster after 2013.

 

it is patently absurd to claim the cubs have to "blow up" the entire organization and start over. they have ONE bad long term contract and a payroll of like $120 mil. ONE. give me a break. if theo cannot "rebuild" around soriano's bad contract, that's pretty disappointing.

[CincyCubsFan]

my goodness, reading crap like that, you'd think the cubs were saddled with 14 bad contracts that last until 2018. the only bad contract they have after 2012 is soriano's. they shed the contracts of aramis and fukudome this year and will shed zambrano and dempster after 2013.

 

it is patently absurd to claim the cubs have to "blow up" the entire organization and start over. they have ONE bad long term contract and a payroll of like $120 mil. ONE. give me a break. if theo cannot "rebuild" around soriano's bad contract, that's pretty disappointing.

 

Well, when you're unwilling to sign established players to multi-year deals for fear of "overpaying," the alternative strategy is dumpster diving and hoping to strike gold.

[CincyCubsFan]

That's not why people thought they were idiots.

 

Really? You're telling me the notion of having a fire sale and rebuilding wasn't lambasted around here every time it was mentioned by the Chicago media over the past few years?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I find it hilarious that so many on this board thought Rogers, Rosenbloom, etc. were idiots because they've been suggesting the Cubs go for a complete rebuild since last year.

"How stupid Rogers is. Teams with payrolls the size of the Cubs don't need to rebuild!"

Everyone was dying for Epstein to take over. And now that he has, we're doing a rebuild. Absolutely classic.

 

I have a few adjectives for it, and none are synonymous with "classic" or "hilarious."

 

Can we at least wait until pitchers and catchers report before the lynch mob forms? For all we know we'll end up with 2 of Fielder, Cespedes, and Solar. How did The Kapman suddenly become credible anyway?

[Guest]

That's not why people thought they were idiots.

 

Really? You're telling me the notion of having a fire sale and rebuilding wasn't lambasted around here every time it was mentioned by the Chicago media over the past few years?

 

People didn't call Phil Rogers and Steve Rosenbloom idiots for that reason.

 

Do you think they're not idiots?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

That's not why people thought they were idiots.

 

Really? You're telling me the notion of having a fire sale and rebuilding wasn't lambasted around here every time it was mentioned by the Chicago media over the past few years?

What does that have to do with anything?

[Guest]

On the other hand, even when Kaplan was pushing for the Cubs to sign Pujols or Fielder, nobody was calling him smart, either. They were still calling him an idiot.

[mul21]

That's not why people thought they were idiots.

 

Really? You're telling me the notion of having a fire sale and rebuilding wasn't lambasted around here every time it was mentioned by the Chicago media over the past few years?

 

Over the past few years, yeah, but that's because nobody had any faith in Hendry having any clue on how to go about doing that because he didn't look for the right things in players. Now that Theo is running things, there was hope that they would reload, but I don't think anybody is lambasting the idea of rebuilding, they're just disappointed that it's now going to be a few years before the Cubs are good again.

[CincyCubsFan]

That's not why people thought they were idiots.

 

Really? You're telling me the notion of having a fire sale and rebuilding wasn't lambasted around here every time it was mentioned by the Chicago media over the past few years?

 

Over the past few years, yeah, but that's because nobody had any faith in Hendry having any clue on how to go about doing that because he didn't look for the right things in players. Now that Theo is running things, there was hope that they would reload, but I don't think anybody is lambasting the idea of rebuilding, they're just disappointed that it's now going to be a few years before the Cubs are good again.

 

So now, $140 million payroll teams do sometimes have to rebuild? That was never mentioned before. Only that Chicago media were idiots for suggesting the Cubs needed to have a fire sale last summer.

[Guest]

There's a matter of degrees in what's being mentioned here. When dopes like Kaplan say "blow it up", they get this vision of stripping the MLB roster of any pieces that aren't going to be around or good in 3 years, and get back a mother load of prospects that will mature in a couple years after the team endures a couple 150 loss seasons. What you're seeing in reality is the team looking to move good players who only have value in the immediate future(read: 2012), and are still getting back MLB capable pieces. That's why they got an MLB starter in return for Marshall, that's why Ramirez wasn't kept, and that's why you heard MLB names in just about every reported Garza deal that gets floated. "Blowing things up" Kaplan-style is a fantasy, especially for a team with the Cubs' resources. It's never the right decision. "Blowing things up" by trading all your contract year players for longer term pieces while pushing value(or potential value) from 2012 to 2013 and beyond is not worthy of derision.

[noisesquared]

Everyone was dying for Epstein to take over. And now that he has, we're doing a rebuild. Absolutely classic.

 

I'm still waiting for concrete evidence that we're 'doing a rebuild'. NOTHING has came from Theo/Jed/Ricketts to say that a 'rebuild' is in place. The media also knows nothing - the new regime is so tight lipped it really has to be frustrating the Chicago media, who are not used to the business being ran that way. And not signing Pujols/Wilson/Darvish does not in any way imply to me that the Cubs are rebuilding. The moves the Cubs have made - DeJesus was a nice value sign which would make no sense for a rebuilding team (give that playing time to Jackson or Campana if you're throwing 2012), and Stewart, well someone has to play 3rd next year, and it might as well be a guy with some upside. The Cubs could still sign Fielder, Cespedes, and Kuroda, trade Garza, Byrd, and Marshall for some quality packages, and not only be in good position to compete in the division this year, but in great position for 2013 onward.

[UMFan83]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

[pccubfan]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Looking ahead to next offseason, would you expect the Cubs to sign one or two of the starters available in FA?

[SouthSideRyan]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Looking ahead to next offseason, would you expect the Cubs to sign one or two of the starters available in FA?

 

Why bother, we were a 64 win team last year, and we shouldn't overpay for guys's best years when we won't be good for another 2 seasons?

[CincyCubsFan]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Looking ahead to next offseason, would you expect the Cubs to sign one or two of the starters available in FA?

 

Unless everyone gets over this aversion to "overpaying" for top talent, I fully expect us to be dumpster diving next year as well.

[Little Slide Rooter]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Aside from Garza, who I doubt they move for a lesser package than the Latos return, everyone youn mentioned was an expiring contract or an older player. If you think about it, the majority of this team is expendable and the phrase full rebuild doesnt necessarily mean turning into the Astros. Hell, I'd we traded Soriano, Byrd, DeWitt, Baker, Marmol, and Z and signed Fielder and Cespedes that would pretty much be a total rebuild but that doesnt make it a bad thing.

[abuck1220]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Looking ahead to next offseason, would you expect the Cubs to sign one or two of the starters available in FA?

 

Why bother, we were a 64 win team last year, and we shouldn't overpay for guys's best years when we won't be good for another 2 seasons?

 

and so on and so on...

 

you can't convince me the cubs wouldn't be competitive in 2013 if they signed fielder today and signed cain/hamels after next season.

[CincyCubsFan]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Aside from Garza, who I doubt they move for a lesser package than the Latos return, everyone youn mentioned was an expiring contract or an older player. If you think about it, the majority of this team is expendable and the phrase full rebuild doesnt necessarily mean turning into the Astros. Hell, I'd we traded Soriano, Byrd, DeWitt, Baker, Marmol, and Z and signed Fielder and Cespedes that would pretty much be a total rebuild but that doesnt make it a bad thing.

 

If we trade those players, but don't sign Fielder and Cespedes, then does it qualify as a failure? And what in God's name do you think we're going to get of value for Byrd/DeWitt/Baker?

[CincyCubsFan]

Everyone was dying for Epstein to take over. And now that he has, we're doing a rebuild. Absolutely classic.

 

I'm still waiting for concrete evidence that we're 'doing a rebuild'. NOTHING has came from Theo/Jed/Ricketts to say that a 'rebuild' is in place. The media also knows nothing - the new regime is so tight lipped it really has to be frustrating the Chicago media, who are not used to the business being ran that way. And not signing Pujols/Wilson/Darvish does not in any way imply to me that the Cubs are rebuilding. The moves the Cubs have made - DeJesus was a nice value sign which would make no sense for a rebuilding team (give that playing time to Jackson or Campana if you're throwing 2012), and Stewart, well someone has to play 3rd next year, and it might as well be a guy with some upside. The Cubs could still sign Fielder, Cespedes, and Kuroda, trade Garza, Byrd, and Marshall for some quality packages, and not only be in good position to compete in the division this year, but in great position for 2013 onward.

 

Not purusing any big free agents.

Signing middling free agents to short term deals.

Trading Marshall

Shopping Garza.

[jersey cubs fan]

Everyone was dying for Epstein to take over. And now that he has, we're doing a rebuild. Absolutely classic.

 

I'm still waiting for concrete evidence that we're 'doing a rebuild'. NOTHING has came from Theo/Jed/Ricketts to say that a 'rebuild' is in place. The media also knows nothing - the new regime is so tight lipped it really has to be frustrating the Chicago media, who are not used to the business being ran that way. And not signing Pujols/Wilson/Darvish does not in any way imply to me that the Cubs are rebuilding. The moves the Cubs have made - DeJesus was a nice value sign which would make no sense for a rebuilding team (give that playing time to Jackson or Campana if you're throwing 2012), and Stewart, well someone has to play 3rd next year, and it might as well be a guy with some upside. The Cubs could still sign Fielder, Cespedes, and Kuroda, trade Garza, Byrd, and Marshall for some quality packages, and not only be in good position to compete in the division this year, but in great position for 2013 onward.

 

Not purusing any big free agents.

Signing middling free agents to short term deals.

Trading Marshall

Shopping Garza.

 

To be fair, it's been more of a sitting on our hands situation to date than an actual rebuild.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Not purusing any big free agents.

Signing middling free agents to short term deals.

Trading Marshall

Shopping Garza.

 

Trading Marshall to a key divisional rival pretty much seals it.

[Little Slide Rooter]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Aside from Garza, who I doubt they move for a lesser package than the Latos return, everyone youn mentioned was an expiring contract or an older player. If you think about it, the majority of this team is expendable and the phrase full rebuild doesnt necessarily mean turning into the Astros. Hell, I'd we traded Soriano, Byrd, DeWitt, Baker, Marmol, and Z and signed Fielder and Cespedes that would pretty much be a total rebuild but that doesnt make it a bad thing.

 

If we trade those players, but don't sign Fielder and Cespedes, then does it qualify as a failure? And what in God's name do you think we're going to get of value for Byrd/DeWitt/Baker?

 

If 2013 rolls around and we're not at least beginning to look like a .500 team then maybe. As for Byrd/DeWitt/Baker I say get what we can. Depending on who has the need for a right handed outfielder with an OK bat, Byrd could bring us back something decent. Nothing resbling top prospects but maybe slightly less than DeRosa but more than Fuludome. As for DeWitt and Baker theyd be either throw ins or maybe they could each fetch an intriguing low level guy. Never thought that Jamey Carroll or Clint Barmes would have signed for as much as they did so white utility guys seem to be in season.

[pccubfan]

losing Ramirez, Marshall, Pena, and in talks to trade Garza and possibly Marmol and replacing them with DeJesus, Stewart and minor league pieces so far certainly doesnt give much evidence that this is anything but a complete rebuild.

 

The offseason isn't over but its becoming more clear to me that this is the route they are going. And whatever im cool with it.

 

Looking ahead to next offseason, would you expect the Cubs to sign one or two of the starters available in FA?

 

Unless everyone gets over this aversion to "overpaying" for top talent, I fully expect us to be dumpster diving next year as well.

 

Then the Cubs are a good five years minimum from competing. There is not enough major league talent in the upper levels of the system to expect it to take less. There aren't enough tradeable major league pieces to supplement the system either. And with the new CBA they aren't going to be able to hurry the process by spending big on the draft or the IFA.